orangefender Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 Hi everyone, I've decided to take the plunge after selling my car to at last buy a decent acoustic. I'm set on getting a J-45. I mainly play at home and only very occasionally get together with some friends for a jam. I have no intention of ever playing the guitar through an amp and I hope that this acoustic will last me a life time (I'm now 28 so hopefully I've still got 40 -50 years of playing in me). I love the romance of having a J-45 50's or 60's vintage but from what I've read I think I might easily outlast the guitar and I want something to use and enjoy rather than a museum piece! So I think I've decided that a new or a '79 or later used J-45 is the way to go. Firstly I would welcome your opinions on where your money would go. Are there any particular periods to look out for or avoid and what sort of money should I be paying? Secondly, I discovered that my local guitar shop has a 1990 J-45 for sale. It has had one previous owner (apparently a regular customer) and is in very good unmarked condition. The only points that I noted was that the saddle pegs had a natural wood finish (most I've seen are white - replacements?), and that there is no strap button at the bottom of the guitar. This was apparently removed and the hole widened/drilled by the previous owner so that a pick-up could be fitted which has now been removed. Apparently this can simply be re-plugged? I played the guitar for sometime and absolutely loved it. The shop has a good selection of high end Martins which I tried but didn't get close to the same enjoyment. They are looking for £1,150 for the J-45 though the sales man said he could go down to £1,050. Does this sound like a good price for a 1990 J-45? Also, should I be worried about the drilling of the body to fit the pick-up? I don't want to accept any deteriation in sound seeing as I won't be amping the guitar. I can buy a brand new J-45 for the same money - would that be a safer/better option? Thanks! Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnt Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 Hi everyone' date=' So I think I've decided that a new or a '79 or later used J-45 is the way to go. Firstly I would welcome your opinions on where your money would go. Are there any particular periods to look out for or avoid and what sort of money should I be paying? Secondly, I discovered that my local guitar shop has a 1990 J-45 for sale. It has had one previous owner (apparently a regular customer) and is in very good unmarked condition. The only points that I noted was that the saddle pegs had a natural wood finish (most I've seen are white - replacements?), and that there is no strap button at the bottom of the guitar. This was apparently removed and the hole widened/drilled by the previous owner so that a pick-up could be fitted which has now been removed. Apparently this can simply be re-plugged? I played the guitar for sometime and absolutely loved it. The shop has a good selection of high end Martins which I tried but didn't get close to the same enjoyment. They are looking for £1,150 for the J-45 though the sales man said he could go down to £1,050. Does this sound like a good price for a 1990 J-45? Also, should I be worried about the drilling of the body to fit the pick-up? I don't want to accept any deteriation in sound seeing as I won't be amping the guitar. I can buy a brand new J-45 for the same money - would that be a safer/better option? Thanks! Ian[/quote'] Hi Ian Welcome. From the UK Right? 1. That's a lot of dosh for a 90 J45 IMHO. 2. You start with a big choice of J45s, square shoulder/round shouldered, Rosewood mahogony (hog) etc etc etc. It is ALL down to the feeling you get when you pick it up and hit the strings. I have 1 1979 Square Shouldered hog which I love. It has r/w pins and like the box your considering has had it's butt removed to make way for the piezo. people and they're probably right in balance, consider that guitar as "slightly inferior" a0 because it's SS and B, more importantly comes from an era where Gibsons QC was teriible (The Norlin era) Howere it's 30 years old, plays like a dream and will never leave my rack (or at least not before I do) Here's it's sister for sale on Ebay NOW http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/1979-Gibson-J45-Acoustic-Guitar_W0QQitemZ150259949126QQihZ005QQcategoryZ33025QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262 This guys good btw he trades from home but gets some good guitars in from time to time. Old or new? I guess there has been " ropes" (or what ever the terms for a mass of threads is) about the variant qualities of new versus old. You'll get lots of advice from folk about J45s but IMHO You are the best judge, If it feels good then it is good for you.. I might hate it but hell I ain't paying! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitarstrummer Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 Welcome to the forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLiveSoundGuy Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 Welcome to the forum Ian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinder Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 Ian, Great to see another UKer on here! I wouldn't worry about the drilled endpin hole. You can get push-in strap buttons that will fit the drilled-out hole, and within a few hours you'll have forgotten about it completely. My advice is just to play it, listen to it and, if it plays really nicely, sounds great and has no structural issues (check for excessive bellying/sinking of the top-a little is normal, loads isn't-check the neck isn't warped or wavy, and that there aren't any dead spots on the neck or uncleated/tended body cracks etc), don't let the asking price put you off. I'd pay anything up to £1100 for a great post-1990 J45. But don't pay top wedge for anything less than a terrific guitar. I'm sure you could chip them a little on the asking price, too. As for the bridge pins being Rosewood or Ebony, this is a positive thing! Most of us change out the stock plastic bridge pins for the tonally and materially superior wood, bone or brass upgrades. It's one extra thing you don't have to worry about with the guitar being already equipped with them. So, in short, play, look, listen...and if it speaks to you, take it home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambler Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 Orange. re price, try comparison shopping. Browse UK prices for new j45s and classifieds for used. May be able to bargain for the one you played. re desirable j45s. Good to go: Bozeman Mt made, 90-92; post-96. Iffy (as a rule, there are exceptions): 1965-1979 (overbraced), 1980-89 (nashville shop had humidity issues); 93-95 (brief spurt of QC issues in Bozeman, tho you can find perfectly good ones in this range). Of recent j45s, there's basicly the all-acoustic ones (90-96 std j45, early j45, j45tv) and ones with a pickup (, j45 std 00-03; j45 historic, j45mc etc); ditto j50 and So Jumbo. JK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orangefender Posted June 23, 2008 Author Share Posted June 23, 2008 Hi posters. Thanks for your replys/welcomes and yes I'm from Essex England. Jinder - thank you for your summary of what I should look out for. I will have a second look and see if I can spot the weak points you mention. Good to know about the bridge pins - gives me confidence that the guitar has been well looked after. Jkinnama - thanks for the quick run down. The 1990 I've seen is described as a 'vintage' so is possibly a j45tv? Is there an easy for me to identify an early 90's j45tv from a j45? Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnt Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 Ian' date=' Great to see another UKer on here! quote'] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnt Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 Hi posters. Thanks for your replys/welcomes and yes I'm from Essex England. Ian Little way away from you in Bulmer Suffolk is a guy who is the best as far as Gibsons are concerned. He doesn't sell them but he's set up mine and several guys on the forum. http://guitarsurgery.brinkster.net/Default.aspx Well recommended> BR JOhn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jefleppard Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 hello from essex county, ontario! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambler Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 The 1990 I've seen is described as a 'vintage' so is possibly a j45tv? "Ian Ian -- the "TV" model designation started in 06. If it were TV, it would say so on the orange sound hole label. You can also tell by ser no: on Gibsons since '90, the 5th no I believe is the production yr. Your '90 would be a std J45, aka a Bozeman or Montana or recent J45. And t'aint vintage. Vintage=50s and back. (mid 60s, &0's & 80s= old, but not vintage, no matter what sellers might say because Gibson had gone away from classic specs by then ). Cheers, J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitarstrummer Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 When they described it as "vintage", they probably meant that it had a vintage sunburst finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnt Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 When they described it as "vintage"' date=' they probably meant that it had a vintage sunburst finish.[/quote'] No Mike You forget it was a UK dealer "Vintage" equals 20% premium and they'll "distress" the guitar for nothing! LOL JK I learnt a lot eavesdropping on you Q&A seesion with Orangefender. Thanks for that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orangefender Posted June 23, 2008 Author Share Posted June 23, 2008 Thanks for clarifying JK - just misinterpretated your post!! Well if 90 - 92 is a good period I might go for it. Having played the guitar it sounded great to my ears and was a joy to play up and down the fretboard...now I just need to work on my negotiation skills!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnt Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 Thanks for clarifying JK - just misinterpretated your post!! Well if 90 - 92 is a good period I might go for it. Having played the guitar it sounded great to my ears and was a joy to play up and down the fretboard...now I just need to work on my negotiation skills!!! Go for it mate! And when you've got her home. post us a pic or 2 please? We know a great Gibson set up guy near you. IF you need one ( hopefully you won't!) BR John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
orangefender Posted June 24, 2008 Author Share Posted June 24, 2008 Thanks again everyone. I went back for another look and play today. I'm still very happy with the way the guitar sounds and the neck seems to be in good shape. I also spoke to the shop about price and they are now saying the lowest they can go is £1000 as apparently that is what they paid for it! The only other thing I picked up on was that the lacquer has cracked across the bottom either side of the endpin hole. They said this is just what happens as a guitar matures. Is that correct? Thanks!! Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLiveSoundGuy Posted June 24, 2008 Share Posted June 24, 2008 Hey Ian, Being a Yank, I couldn't tell you if that's a good price or not, so I'll leave that up to a European, or someone who know currency rates. As for the "cracking" if it is just into the lacquer and not the wood, then yes that is normal. It's called crazing. It happens to many older instruments. All the expanding, and contracting of the wood as well as the aging of the lacquer itself over the years does that to lacquer. Many believe it gives the guitar a certain "character or mojo" if you will. Just make certain it's not a crack in the wood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albertjohn Posted June 24, 2008 Share Posted June 24, 2008 Hello there Orangefender from one Essex boy (by marraige only I'm afraid) to another. Don't know too much about J45s but will do by reading the posts on this forum. I'm very much a novice in these matters. Johnt is correct. I take lessons and occasionally gig with Dr Robert who is based in Suffolk (near Sudbury). He has an encyclopedic knowledge on matters Gibson so if you need a recommendation for a setup etc, let me know and I'll put you in touch. I'm assuming here you don't already know him of course. Where in Essex are you? Our American friends will laugh but it's a big county by English standards! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ballcorner Posted June 24, 2008 Share Posted June 24, 2008 I have a few concerns about this guitar that I want to share with you: The cracks near the end pin hole are not part of the natural aging process! The drill out of the end pin for a plug is not the end of the world, but if the bridge was drilled or routed to accommodate an after market pickup, you might be missing some wood that would theoretically help the tone. Obviously, if a pickup has been removed, you don't have the original saddle. Never believe a dealer who tells you he paid a thousand for a guitar he is retailing for 1150. Wholesale is 60% of retail and he got that guitar for 700 pounds or less one way or another. He might have actually given the guy 1000 pounds in theory on a trade in, for example, but by selling the new guitar at MSRP rather than a reduced price. Other people have given you the ranges of which years are good or less great for J45s. As I understand it, around 1500 pounds would get you a brand new j45 in England - am I correct? If you like the guitar, I would offer them 850 pounds and be willing to walk if they don't accept it or counter any higher than 900. The cracks indicate the guitar was dropped when the pick up was in - or the hole that was drilled for the end jack was not quite large enough and humidity issues caused the crackle. Crackle on a Monet is chic - on a guitar it is the result of improper care and abuse. Even at 900 pounds sterling, this guitar seems pricey to me. But if you love it, dive right in - send us pictures - and welcome to the finest guitar on Earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry K Posted June 24, 2008 Share Posted June 24, 2008 I think that the best bang for buck on Gibsons is to pick up recent, minty, used gibsons. Something made in the last few years. Gibson Montana seems to have learned a great deal in recent years from inspecting and copying stellar Gibsons from earlier eras. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyJ-45 Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 well man, i bought my Banner J45 new and what ive realized, is that, when you buy new, youve got about a year of "breaking in" your guitar. ive had mine 2 years now, and HOLY **** has it really opened up sounds amazing. a real cannon. so buy that one thats two or three years old with that dent on the back or top and save a bunch of cash, and usually get a better sounding guitar. but every guitar is diffrent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnt Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 Orange Perhaps this puts things into perspective? http://www.guitarampkeyboard.com/options.php?id=91&gclid=COT65ZOkj5QCFQpPQgod71wdgQ or http://www.nevadamusic.co.uk/Guitars/Electro_Acoustic_Guitars/Electro_Acoustic_Guitars/p6886.aspx or http://www.dv247.com/invt/42122/ All new all close (ish) to a grand BR John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLiveSoundGuy Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 I have a few concerns about this guitar that I want to share with you: The cracks near the end pin hole are not part of the natural aging process! How do you know? I mean if you have not personally seen or handled the guitar, how do you know it's not just finish crazing? Over the years I have seen crazing on all parts of a guitars finish. Granted a 1990 model should not be subject to this unless it has been exposed to vast amounts of temperature changes. Just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
albertjohn Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 well man' date=' i bought my Banner J45 new and what ive realized, is that, when you buy new, youve got about a year of "breaking in" your guitar. ive had mine 2 years now, and HOLY **** has it really opened up sounds amazing. a real cannon. so buy that one thats two or three years old with that dent on the back or top and save a bunch of cash, and usually get a better sounding guitar. but every guitar is diffrent.[/quote'] MyJ-45 has a point. As someone who got my first Gibson 6 months ago I'm just beginning to hear the guitar "breaking in" It could be my imagination or the subtle changes of setup but it sounds better every day I play it. I'm an accountant by profession and therefore have had most of the risk trained out of me so I would always initially err on the side of new. My relative lack of knowledge - compared to our forum colleagues would always lead me down the least risky route. But the real decider has to be the sound and that in itself is a fickle animal. Last week I had the action raised slightly on my SWD to remove some very light buzzing and the sound is significantly better. More mellow, louder and clearer. And fingerpicking - well it's like a different guitar. No longer will I have actions akin to an electric! I'm going to enjoy breaking in the guitar over the years which arguably you won't get if you go for the used one. I agree with Johnt (this is becoming a habit). It sounds pricey compared with a new one and their statement that they paid £1k for it smells really bad! Sounds like Denmark St prices to me. The shop isn't just outside Braintree is it? BTW I have an amber strat so in fact own an "orangefender" Good luck with your deliberations and hope this is of some help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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