zneipp Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 I'm new to the Epi forum, and was wondering if anyone had any insight on these two different guitars. Differences between them, if one is better or not? Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 I own the "Assembled in USA" Sheraton. It's a Great guitar. The biggest difference is the Nitro finish ("Elitist" is Poly), and the headstock design, is true to the most common past USA (Kalamazoo) models. Both bodies and necks are made in Japan, same materials, and construction, same factory. The headstock difference, on the USA version was (most likely) carved/shaped here...where the (basic) "Elitist" body and neck were sent for final assembly and finishing. Both have "USA" electronics, and parts...or, at least, that's the way they are advertised. The USA version is American standard, I'm not sure, if the Elitist is too, or "metric?" But I believe it's American Standard. But, really...for all "practical" purposes, they're basically the same. Elitists have "Stair-step" Grover tuning keys...USA has the "Kidney Bean" Standard Grover tuning keys (as did the original Kalamazoo models). The machine heads, themselves, are the same...basic Grover Rotomatics. As to which is better? That's totally subjective, and a matter of personal opinion...so, I won't even GO there. ;>) CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexygibson Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 I would say that these two models are about right on par with each other. i owned the '64 USA re-issue; it was japan built and assmebled in the USA. Good workmanship and quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red 333 Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 I own the "Assembled in USA" Sheraton. It's a Great guitar. The biggest difference is the Nitro finish ("Elitist" is Poly)' date='... the (basic) "Elitist" body and neck were sent for final assembly and finishing. [/quote'] The Lennon Casinos, Hooker Sheraton, etc. arrive in the USA with the nitro finish on them. The hardware and electronics are then put on them in Nashville. Red 333 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JefferySmith Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 I'm not at all certain that my Reissue has nitro rather than poly. And the nut is supposed to be bone but is actually plastic. I think mine are probably that last assembled ones and they didn't have all of the top-of-the-line parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 The Lennon Casinos' date=' Hooker Sheraton, etc. arrive in the USA with the nitro finish on them. The hardware and electronics are then put on them in Nashville. Red 333[/quote'] Truly, Red? You know this, for a fact? So, they carve the headstock differences in Japan...Interesting. Learn something everyday! I think "Gibson" told me the bodies/necks were shipped "raw," they were painted and assembled, here! Oh, well...it "sounded good," when they told me that, anyway. LOL! CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duane v Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 I was told the same thing that the body and the necks were shipped from Japan raw as well:-s ..... who really knows... But it sure does play nice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zneipp Posted February 10, 2009 Author Share Posted February 10, 2009 I'm not at all certain that my Reissue has nitro rather than poly. And the nut is supposed to be bone but is actually plastic. I think mine are probably that last assembled ones and they didn't have all of the top-of-the-line parts. What's the difference between a nitro and poly finish? Is one of them better? I heard that the reissues were 3 ply while the Elitists are 5 ply. Anyone else heard something like that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JefferySmith Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 What's the difference between a nitro and poly finish? Is one of them better? I heard that the reissues were 3 ply while the Elitists are 5 ply. Anyone else heard something like that? Nitro is nitrocellulose lacquer (used on fine guitars). Poly is a plastic that is extremely shiny and much cheaper to use in manufacture. If you accidentally strike a nitro finish, you dent it. If you accidentally strike a poly finish, it looks like a bullet hole in a windshield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red 333 Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Truly' date=' Red? You know this, for a fact? So, they carve the headstock differences in Japan...Interesting. Learn something everyday! I think "Gibson" told me the bodies/necks were shipped "raw," they were painted and assembled, here! Oh, well...it "sounded good," when they told me that, anyway. LOL! CB[/quote'] The moderator of the Gibson forum wrote that they came pre-finished from Japan. It stands to reason: the Terada factory can spray nitro, as some of the Gretches from there are nitro finished, and there were nitro finished Orville ES guitars made there. If the finish was applied in the US, surely Gibson could do better than just "Assembled in the USA" and tout the Lennons and Hooker as having "traditional nitro finishes hand-applied in the USA, just like the originals." Red 333 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 The moderator of the Gibson forum wrote that they came pre-finished from Japan. It stands to reason: the Terada factory can spray nitro' date=' as some of the Gretches from there are nitro finished, and there were nitro finished Orville ES guitars made there. If the finish was applied in the US, surely Gibson could do better than just "Assembled in the USA" and tout the Lennons and Hooker as having "traditional nitro finishes hand-applied in the USA, just like the originals." Red 333[/quote'] Well, I read that too, on the Gibson forum...but, when I spoke with Gibson on the phone, they told me Then..that the bodies and necks were shipped "raw" (unfinished) and they were finished in "Nashville!" (Heck, I thought it would have been "Memphis" with all the other semi's?) So...??? LOL... I guess it depends on who you ask, or who's story you want to believe. I figured it made more sense (to me) to do the finishing here, since ALL the Gibson's are Nitro. But...??? It doesn't make sense, to me, to do two different headstocks, for such a limited quantity, either...but, maybe they do like Rickenbacker, and other places, where they only work on one model, for a specific time, and concentrate all their efforts, on those, until they've met the demand, and then move on (or back) whatever the case may be? And, if they paint them "nito" in Japan, why not assemble them there, too?! Seems really silly, to just send them here, to put in the pickups and hardware?!! These are the kinds of questions, "EP1" could answer, if only He/She would?! Where are you EP1? ;>) CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duane v Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 A warranty tech at Gibson told me the JL models were primarly built in the their factory... For me it doesnt matter, because my JL Rev is the best guitar I have ever laid my hands on. Granted I don't have the upper fret access I would like, but nevertheless still it's a fantastic guitar..... I just cant keep my hands off of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Yeah, it doesn't (really) matter to me, either...my Sheraton is "to die for!" But, it's just curious/interesting. But, it actually made sense, to built the bodies in Japan, where there were doing the "Elitists" anyway... and then ship them here, for final spec "tweaks" (like headstocks), final finishing and assembly. CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duane v Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 I've played the Japanese made Elitist, and they are top notch instruments IMO... If I didnt have a JL Rev, I would have no reserve in shelling out $1600 for one of them... They are worth every penny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 +1 It would be nice for find one, for less...LOL! But, they're Great!! CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red 333 Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Well' date=' I read that too, on the Gibson forum...but, when I spoke with Gibson on the phone, they told me Then..that the bodies and necks were shipped "raw" (unfinished) and they were finished in "Nashville!" (Heck, I thought it would have been "Memphis" with all the other semi's?) So...??? LOL... I guess it depends on who you ask, or who's story you want to believe. I figured it made more sense (to me) to do the finishing here, since ALL the Gibson's are Nitro. But...??? It doesn't make sense, to me, to do two different headstocks, for such a limited quantity, either...but, maybe they do like Rickenbacker, and other places, where they only work on one model, for a specific time, and concentrate all their efforts, on those, until they've met the demand, and then move on (or back) whatever the case may be? These are the kinds of questions, "EP1" could answer, if only He/She would?! Where are you EP1? ;>) CB [/quote'] I don't know if it's still there, but on the Gretsch forum, there used to be a link in a post to the Terada factory tour. In it, you can see them spraying and then buffing nitro. In one picture, I remember guitars with various headstock motifs. Some for brands I did not recognize. The tour was very interesting. It highlighted all the hand work performed in the factory, which was very workshop like (like Gibson Montana), and didn't at all seem like a modern production line type facility. Impressive, to say the least. As far as the two headstocks on the Lennons: that must be done in Japan. Otherwise, they'd have to apply the headstock veneer and logo inlay in the USA, too, as they are different on each model. Again, if they did, Gibson proabaly would have issued some copy like, "As a crowning touch, and to proudly symbolize the high degree of American lutherie devoted to each Assembled in the USA guitar, the Epiphone logo is lovingly inlaid into the headstock by skilled Gibson craftsman, exactly as it was almost a half century ago." Given what we know about Terada, how time consuming nitro application is, and that Gibson only chooses to call out "Assembled in the USA," I would take the word of the Gibson moderator (who is very knowledgeable and has experience with Gibson manufacturing) over that of one of the 800 # service reps, who probably don't have the same insight and experience. Red 333 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 Yeah Red, you could well be right. Not a big deal, either way...just be nice to "know" this, and many other things as well...lfor sure! Instead of all this speculation and "he said, she said," etc. that we all go through, all too often, here. You know? ;>) CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red 333 Posted February 10, 2009 Share Posted February 10, 2009 What's the difference between a nitro and poly finish? Is one of them better? I heard that the reissues were 3 ply while the Elitists are 5 ply. Anyone else heard something like that? The plys refer to the number of layers of wood laminated together to make the body. The finish (nitro or poly) is applied over that. Traditionally, Gibson ES bodies are usually 3 ply, and Epiphone bodies are usually 5. In theory, the guitar will be more resonant with fewer plys. The wood used for each ply (maple, mahogany, birch, etc.) also has an impact on how the guitar sounds. Nitrocellulose laquer is the finish most traditionally used since the days guitars were first mass-produced. It's very time consuming to apply, so now it is usually reserved for more expensive guitars, while the easier to apply poly is used on other models to keep costs down. Most Korean and Asian-made guitars use a poly finish. When poly was first widely used, it tended to be thick and plasticy. New, modern formulas and processes let manufacturers apply relatively thin poly finishes when they want. Usually, poly finishes are more carefully and thinly applied on higher-priced instruments, like an Epiphone Elitist. Poly is also used in budget guitar manufacturing becasue it also lets manufacturers cut down on the amount of time spent on wood preperation and even wood quality. Poly fills in defects in the wood surface, where as nitro conforms to the surface more, revealing those same defects. Nitro is preferred becasue it's said to have better acoustic properties. Older nitro formulas would actually shrink into the wood of a guitar, making the finish seem thinner over time (thereby letting the wood "breathe" or vibrate with the string energy more freely). Newer formulas (which are catalyzed) tend not to display that trait, and are applied even thinner than the finishes on many vintage guitars. Today, even some high-end acoustic guitar makers use poly finishes. If the manufacture chooses to invest the extra time, it can be applied very thinly so as not to kill the tone. Traditional makers like Gibson and Martin still use the evn more time-consuming nitro, though, as many players believe it helps deliver the best tone. Nitro also feels different to the touch, and some players prefer it. Of course, it also ages quite beautifully, while poly tends to look the same from the day it was applied. Even on a solid body instrument, the thickness of the finish is said to effect the tone. However, on solidbody, the chief virtue of nitro is arguably that it is easy to repair. It can be removed easily, and new coats of finish blend easily with the old. Poly is much harder to repair. Red 333 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.