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Epiphone FT550 Excelente (vintage?)


Daddio

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Hi all, and thanks for reading. I've recently taken posession of the above instrument, and I wonder if anyone has any info on it, and if I might be able to trace the year of manufacture by using the serial #. It is in great shape, although the action is a bit high. It sounds amazing, and if it were just a little easier to play it would be perfect. I did a slight truss rod adjustment, and looking inside, there's a bolt and nut there, but it's removal (I put it back on) doesn't seem to do anything. If I could get the neck off I could shim it. The saddle (ivory) is already really low, barely above the bridge, so there doesn't seem to be a way to lower the action. Thanks for reading, and I hope there's someone who can help.

 

Thanks!

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If it is an FT550 I am afraid it is not all that vintage. The original Excellentes were made in Kalamazoo in the 1960s and are rare as hen's teeth - only 141 were ever made. Today they sell for a small fortune.

 

The FT550 is a Japanese version with, if I recall, laminated back and sides. The guitar is probably from the 1970s - there are several sites out there that can help you do a serial number search.

 

Here is Loretta with her original Excellente

 

040423_lorettalynn_vmed2p_widec.jpg

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Hi all' date=' and thanks for reading. I've recently taken posession of the above instrument, and I wonder if anyone has any info on it, and if I might be able to trace the year of manufacture by using the serial #. It is in great shape, although the action is a bit high. It sounds amazing, and if it were just a little easier to play it would be perfect. I did a slight truss rod adjustment, and looking inside, there's a bolt and nut there, but it's removal (I put it back on) doesn't seem to do anything. If I could get the neck off I could shim it. The saddle (ivory) is already really low, barely above the bridge, so there doesn't seem to be a way to lower the action. Thanks for reading, and I hope there's someone who can help.

 

Thanks![/quote']

 

Serial numbers will be of no help in dating your instrument but I can tell you that the FT-550 was introduced about 1972 and was around until about 1977. It was near the top of the Epiphone acoustic line in its time but it was still an all-laminated body with (as you've discovered) a bolt-on (albeit "heeled") neck. As I recall, it had a three piece jacaranda (a rosewood-type wood)/maple/jacaranda back, jacaranda sides and a spruce top but as I said, this was a veneer over laminated wood guitar. Still, a pretty nice guitar. Vintage? Ermmm that term is really over-used and quite ambiguous but it is about thirty five years old. It was street-priced around $230 when new (listing around $300) and they probably go for around that now depending upon condition. These guitars were made in Japan by Matsumoku which was the parent company of brands like Aria and Westone. They do have a proclivity toward neck issues and while having bolt-on necks, they're still glued in so resets can be problematic and not an amateur night proposition. A bigger issue is the neck coming apart at the heel scarf/butt joint which was also common on its super jumbo-bodied sister model the FT-570. Short of a neck reset, truss rod adjustment and shaving the saddle are probably your only options for lowering the action. Even if you could remove the neck there's no way to "shim" that type of construction. Tweak the truss rod, shave the saddle (while maintaining a good "break" on the strings at the saddle), use light gauge strings and it should make playing a bit easier. The saddle probably isn't ivory and more-likely bone or a synthetic but a repair guy could probably make you a suitable replacement for a reasonable amount of money (<$40) and also get the action down a bit. The "Excellente' " name as it was pointed out, was also used on a Kalamazoo-made Epiphone square-shouldered dreadnought model, the original FT-120(The FT-120 nomenclature was also used at the time of your guitar on a low-end grand concert-sized model) which was made of Brazilian rosewood and is exceedingly rare and expensive ($12K+). Good luck with your guitar and welcome to the forum.

 

Larens

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I was going to add something Larens but you got just about anything that was important to this posting, the only place I might disagree with you is the price that the FT-120's are getting these days ( and I think for the guitar that they are a bit to high, it was a nice guitar but not worth that much) I have seen a few ( actaully 2 over the last 3 years ) sell for around then $4000.00 - $8000.00, but different strokes for different folks.Ship

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I was going to add something Larens but you got just about anything that was important to this posting' date=' the only place I might disagree with you is the price that the FT-120's are getting these days ( and I think for the guitar that they are a bit to high, it was a nice guitar but not worth that much) I have seen a few ( actaully 2 over the last 3 years ) sell for around then $4000.00 - $8000.00, but different strokes for different folks.Ship[/quote']

 

The last one I personally saw sell was in 2005 and it went for $8.5K. I know of one currently for sale @ $15K but that is ridiculous especially since the price is based upon it being owned by "Curly West" Curly who? Exactly. Curly is eighty five years old and the guitar has this huge non-original Western motif "Out West" (get it? ) pickguard and "Curly" on the fretboard. When I told him having those things actually diminished the value he snorted and told me how many times he played the "Opry" and how he was a personal friend of this one or that one. I based my guesstimate on the $8.5K 2005 price and the appreciation of all things Brazilian of 40%-50% even in a tanked vintage guitar market. I know for certain you won't get one for under $7K. Not when a plain vanilla pre-'65 D-28 can get that. Now with Madagascar rosewood in the reticles, those who paid $5K+ for those Mad/Ad Martins a few years ago aren't looking so foolish since the value of those have now almost doubled. Anything Brazilian though has sky-rocketed in the last few years and the FT-120 Excellente's are no exception. What I've also seen happen is that since the economic down turn, guitar companies have raised their new guitar prices to hold their margins and bottom lines and the second-hand markets have followed suit. Two years ago you could buy an American Standard Strat new for $800 and used for $550. That's now gone to $1000 for new and the used market followed and are in the $700 range. A 20% increase in a VERY down market????

 

The actual vintage market has always done stupid things but we're talking just second hand guitars here. Anyway, I'd kill a close relative(mine or yours so that's something to consider lol) for an original FT-120 and kick myself twice every day because three years ago I brushed off my Madagascar/Adirondack Martin idea as folly when I could have had one for under $4K...that's about right for me though...I had the opportunity to buy a '59 Burst in 1986 for $10K and had $15K from selling my Corvette sitting hot in my pocket AND my ex-wife's blessing to spend what I had made on the Vette on guitars and I said..."OH!No, $10K is too much for that guitar" so I ended up buying a '58 Custom for $4500 (sold it in 2007 for about ten times that-which sounds impressive until you consider that $4500 invested in a semi aggressive mutual fund in 1986 probably would have done much better and that $10K Burst is now around $150K). If someone said "I have $10K to invest in vintage guitars, what should I buy?" I'd probably say "lottery tickets". It's true that generally vintage guitars do well as investments but there are no sure things and a very limited number of models that are actually investment worthy. A '60s FT-120? Yeah. a 70s FT-550? Not so much... but the utilitarian value as an instrument is still always there.

 

Larens

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Thanks all for replying. What a vibrant and helpful forum. Well, I took the bridge and saddle down (I thought the saddle might be ivory because of how heavy, hard, and white it is. It might be bone because of the smell that comes off it when I sanded it down.) I have a set of extra light Elixirs here, and I'll string it up and see how it plays a little bit later. I got this guitar in a trade for a cheapo Samick because the Samick had a pickup. I'm amazed how this thing rings like a piano. I play bare finger, so big dreads tend to sound muddy, but not with this baby. Oh yea, it says "Norlin" on the soundhole sticker. Thanks again to all who replied, and Happy Thanksgiving!

 

Tim

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The last one I personally saw sell was in 2005 and it went for $8.5K. I know of one currently for sale @ $15K but that is ridiculous especially since the price is based upon it being owned by "Curly West" Curly who? Exactly. Curly is eighty five years old and the guitar has this huge non-original Western motif "Out West" (get it? ) pickguard and "Curly" on the fretboard. When I told him having those things actually diminished the value he snorted and told me how many times he played the "Opry" and how he was a personal friend of this one or that one. I based my guesstimate on the $8.5K 2005 price and the appreciation of all things Brazilian of 40%-50% even in a tanked vintage guitar market. I know for certain you won't get one for under $7K. Not when a plain vanilla pre-'65 D-28 can get that. Now with Madagascar rosewood in the reticles' date=' those who paid $5K+ for those Mad/Ad Martins a few years ago aren't looking so foolish since the value of those have now almost doubled. Anything Brazilian though has sky-rocketed in the last few years and the FT-120 Excellente's are no exception. What I've also seen happen is that since the economic down turn, guitar companies have raised their new guitar prices to hold their margins and bottom lines and the second-hand markets have followed suit. Two years ago you could buy an American Standard Strat new for $800 and used for $550. That's now gone to $1000 for new and the used market followed and are in the $700 range. A 20% increase in a VERY down market????

 

The actual vintage market has always done stupid things but we're talking just second hand guitars here. Anyway, I'd kill a close relative(mine or yours so that's something to consider lol) for an original FT-120 and kick myself twice every day because three years ago I brushed off my Madagascar/Adirondack Martin idea as folly when I could have had one for under $4K...that's about right for me though...I had the opportunity to buy a '59 Burst in 1986 for $10K and had $15K from selling my Corvette sitting hot in my pocket AND my ex-wife's blessing to spend what I had made on the Vette on guitars and I said..."OH!No, $10K is too much for that guitar" so I ended up buying a '58 Custom for $4500 (sold it in 2007 for about ten times that-which sounds impressive until you consider that $4500 invested in a semi aggressive mutual fund in 1986 probably would have done much better and that $10K Burst is now around $150K). If someone said "I have $10K to invest in vintage guitars, what should I buy?" I'd probably say "lottery tickets". It's true that generally vintage guitars do well as investments but there are no sure things and a very limited number of models that are actually investment worthy. A '60s FT-120? Yeah. a 70s FT-550? Not so much... but the utilitarian value as an instrument is still always there.

 

Larens[/quote']

 

I'm sorry to be stabbing my knife deeper into the 'burst'-wound but... I heard that 'bursts go for over 400'000 bucks these days... Of course, depending on condition and what kind of a jolly old musician was in posession of it...

 

I'd love to have a time machine and travel back to 1959 and buy 35 of these Bursts... Well, let Keith Richards have one or two of course (since he was one of the first british musicians to pick one up) and live the good life today

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Thanks all for replying. What a vibrant and helpful forum. Well' date=' I took the bridge and saddle down (I thought the saddle might be ivory because of how heavy, hard, and white it is. It might be bone because of the smell that comes off it when I sanded it down.) I have a set of extra light Elixirs here, and I'll string it up and see how it plays a little bit later. I got this guitar in a trade for a cheapo Samick because the Samick had a pickup. I'm amazed how this thing rings like a piano. I play bare finger, so big dreads tend to sound muddy, but not with this baby. Oh yea, it says "Norlin" on the soundhole sticker. Thanks again to all who replied, and Happy Thanksgiving!

 

Tim[/quote']

 

The white Norlin interior label narrows it down a bit more to 1976-1978 (I'm pretty certain by 1979 the "FT" line had been replaced by the "PR" line). Please don't get me wrong, it's not lot you've got a load of rubbish there. It's just not a vintage guitar worth $10K+...and truth be told there are actually very few of those no matter what they may be priced. Good luck and Happy Thanksgiving.

 

Larens

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Hi all' date=' and thanks for reading. I've recently taken posession of the above instrument, and I wonder if anyone has any info on it, and if I might be able to trace the year of manufacture by using the serial #. It is in great shape, although the action is a bit high. It sounds amazing, and if it were just a little easier to play it would be perfect. I did a slight truss rod adjustment, and looking inside, there's a bolt and nut there, but it's removal (I put it back on) doesn't seem to do anything. If I could get the neck off I could shim it. The saddle (ivory) is already really low, barely above the bridge, so there doesn't seem to be a way to lower the action. Thanks for reading, and I hope there's someone who can help.

 

Thanks![/quote']

 

 

I am not familiar with these heeled Norlin FTs and their construction, but if it is similar to the unheeled FTs, the action could be caused by neck block failure. It is my understanding that the bolt(s) / nut(s) visible in the sound hole can be removed and the neck removed like any other guitar neck. It is entirely possible this FT heeled neck might be easier to reset than your run-of-the-expensive-mill dovetail neck guitar. From what some here have described it is similar to the way Taylor bolts theirs on.

 

Some day I will find one of these and go to work on it. Unfortunately, these heeled Norlins can bring rude money. We're talking $250 - $500 here. I don't normally have that much mad money to throw around.

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FWIW,

 

Epiphone made an FT120 in the '60's before Norlin took over. The Norlin era FT120s are NOT the same guit tar in any stretch of the imagination... other than having 6 strings. As such they do NOT fetch the same coin as a '60's FT120. We're talking $100-$200, for a clean, playable FT120 with no neck block issues.

 

There were FT Epiphones made prior to the Norlin purchase. After that they borrowed the FT nomenclature and applied it to Aria models. Mostly, the pre-Norlin models numbered less than FT100. The FT110 Frontier and the FT120 Excellente were a couple exceptions.

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I'm sorry to be stabbing my knife deeper into the 'burst'-wound but... I heard that 'bursts go for over 400'000 bucks these days... Of course' date=' depending on condition and what kind of a jolly old musician was in posession of it...

 

I'd love to have a time machine and travel back to 1959 and buy 35 of these Bursts... Well, let Keith Richards have one or two of course (since he was one of the first british musicians to pick one up) and live the good life today[/quote']

 

At the height of Burst Mania (pre-2007) some did get quite up there in price. I have an acquaintance who sold one of his four "Bursts" (four times the reason to hate this guy lol) for $150K last July. The vintage market has taken quite a hit recently and unless having some celebrity provenance, if you have $200K you can own just about any one of them ever made. I wouldn't have sold my Custom but I had a divorce to settle and my son (to whom it was to be willed) couldn't wait for me to assume room temperature to buy a house. The irony is that it sat in a famous guitar shop for almost a year priced at $20K with no takers. My son went into a music shop In Shreveport, Louisiana in 2006 for drum sticks (He's a drummer...you do what you can but they don't always turn out as you'd hoped lol) and mentioned mine. They offered to sell it at the Dallas Guitar show and get $40K. I laughed at the time but they did even better. I doubt they could get half that now but he's happy, my ex is off my back so I'm happy and she's happy and this guy named "Ed" who has another famous music shop (I signed a paper agreeing to not reveal the buyer or price paid lol) probably doesn't feel as cocky as he sometimes does lol. Yeah, I'm currently reading Keith's biography (always been a fav of mine) and it seems he was into Customs as well. They'll no doubt inch up there again but $400K is a ways off unless, as I said, it's a famous one. I saw my Custom go on E Bay a week after I sold it with a buy it now of $55K...they didn't get it. A few months later that same famous music shop had one similar to mine priced at $125K...bet they wished they'd bought mine when it was $20K but I doubt I'd even get that now and certainly not $125K. I used to dabble in the vintage thing but even with the hit it's taken, it's still too rich for my blood and check book.

 

 

Larens

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Hi to any and all original Excellente admirers

 

The true Vintage ones 63-69 - these are great guitars. To each his own

when it comes to beauty and value - that is in the eye of the beholder.

 

I am looking for more and ready to buy - let me hear from you

 

Regards,

 

Moose

 

d.dogs@verizon.net

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  • 7 years later...

Hello. I have read this string and it is several years old so I am not sure if anyone will respond but I am hoping someone can give me info on my Epi FT 550. It has that pretty 3 piece Jacaranda back and you can see the unfinished pieces via the sound hole. My curiosity happens when I look at the label. It only says FT 500...not Excellente anywhere on it. I think it is a almost humorous sign of the times that the "Made in Japan" has been colored over with a black marker. Growing up I remember things that were Made In Japan were considered inferior as opposed to today when they are oft-times superior. I have personally owned this guitar about 30 years and was given it by my cousin who said he got it from Mark Lindsay of Paul Revere & The Raiders fame although I have zero proof to that end but it did make me wonder if Mark had an Epiphone deal and perhaps this was given to him by the company therefore explaining the label...but again I may be making more out of it than there really is. Any help would be appreciated.

post-65418-083834900 1485809404_thumb.jpg

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It's one of Gibson's Japanese Epiphones, made after Kalamazoo stopped producing them and turned Epi into a budget import line. The number designation stayed the same on some of them, but the guitar specs didn't necessarily match the Gibson originals, nor did the names of models carry over into Japanese production. The Kalamazoo production Epiphones are basically counterparts to models in the Gibson line and are sought after by both players and collectors. They fetch good money. The 1970s imports are still around, some have survived better than most and play and sound OK for what they are. The blacked-out MIJ was often done by players who wished they had the real thing and by sellers hoping to pass the instrument off as an American made instrument. There wasn't much love for imported Epiphones at the time.

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If it is an FT550 I am afraid it is not all that vintage. The original Excellentes were made in Kalamazoo in the 1960s and are rare as hen's teeth - only 141 were ever made. Today they sell for a small fortune.

 

The FT550 is a Japanese version with, if I recall, laminated back and sides. The guitar is probably from the 1970s - there are several sites out there that can help you do a serial number search.

 

Here is Loretta with her original Excellente

 

040423_lorettalynn_vmed2p_widec.jpg

 

Hi Zomby: Great to know you are still an Excellente admirer as I still am. I had a 550 for about 1 hour. The crapiest guitar I have ever had the misfortune of owning. What has failed to even being mentioned in this entire discussion are the great 23 Bozeman Excellente reissues (93-94) and the much lesser but still very nice 96 Korean ones. As you know I have owned them all including originals so have a valid basis of comparison

 

Regards,

 

Moose

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Hi to any and all original Excellente admirers

 

The true Vintage ones 63-69 - these are great guitars. To each his own

when it comes to beauty and value - that is in the eye of the beholder.

 

I am looking for more and ready to buy - let me hear from you

 

Regards,

 

Moose

 

d.dogs@verizon.net

 

Hi to all Ecellente admirers. Even though I posted this years back, I still collect original Excellentes and certain reissues(NOT 550s)

 

Would be great to hear from anyone interested in these guitars,

 

Moose

 

d.dogs@verizon.net

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Getting back to the FT-550, I was interested in one for a brief while (until I found out they had laminated tops). I do like the three piece back though and ones that have been well maintained are quite attractive. Last year (16') when I was tracking them decent ones were going for $400-$500, if memory serves me correctly. In that price range you could have a nice Masterbilt, so I abandoned the search. Those 60's Excellente models have become quite the collector's item for sure and they are demanding upper-end Martin prices. Same with the Epiphone Frontier (which is a Excellente model I suppose) which command several thousand dollars.

 

If that weren't enough, you have to be concerned with the common issues of old guitars: neck warping, bridge pulling, top bellying.

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Granted, some older guitars have structural issues - especially those that began life as inexpensive instruments. They were not really intended to withstand the ravages of time and use or to submit well to decent repairs. That's especially true of the imported stuff. If you don't want vintage or can't/won't pay well for late model or new good quality instruments, new inexpensive is likely the best route.

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