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Just got a 6830e

#1 User is offline   zoid_99 

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Posted 10 April 2010 - 03:17 PM

My wife surprised me this morning when she got back from a garage sale with a Epiphone 6830e. She paid $20 for it (no case) and it is in great shape for a 40 year old guitar. I wasn't aware that it was that old at first. I thought the bolt on neck was unusual so I looked it up which brought me to this forum. The label on the inside says "Union Made" and nowhere says "Made in Japan" but we all know different. Its a real good sounding guitar but the previous oner put the strings on without the bone in place(and it still sounds good using the metal bridge as the bone:). I'm going to have to find a replacement bone. Any ideas?

#2 User is offline   TommyK 

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Posted 14 April 2010 - 05:47 AM

Quote

My wife surprised me this morning when she got back from a garage sale with a Epiphone 6830e. She paid $20 for it (no case) and it is in great shape for a 40 year old guitar. I wasn't aware that it was that old at first. I thought the bolt on neck was unusual so I looked it up which brought me to this forum. The label on the inside says "Union Made" and nowhere says "Made in Japan" but we all know different. Its a real good sounding guitar but the previous oner put the strings on without the bone in place(and it still sounds good using the metal bridge as the bone:). I'm going to have to find a replacement bone. Any ideas?


Definitely made in Japan and NOT union made.

This was an early production model built immediately after Epiphones were moved out of Kalamazoo. The model 6XXX model number series was a rebranded Aria line of guitars made by Matsumoku of Japan. The 'e' suffix probably indicated it was an Epiphone version of the Aria with the same model number. Your guitar, if it still has the OEM tuners, has white plastic tuner buttons that have a fleur-de-lis look to them which might look more appropriate on a classical guitar. They used these odd-on-a-dreadnaught tuners while they were ramping up production of these Epis until more 'proper' looking chrome / nickel plated tuners could be sourced.

Circumstantial evidence indicates that "Union Made" labels were shipped to Japan for the beginning of production. Matsumoku was supposed to line out the words "Union Made" with black marker and rubber stamp "Made In Japan" in the lower right of the Kalamazoo label. It seems it took the production floor a little while to catch on to this procedure and some slipped through unedited. In some cases I've seen that the black marker striking out the "Union Made' text as well as the "Made in Japan" stamping have faded, but are still somewhat visible.

Later blue K'zoo labels had "Made In Japan" printed right on the label and no evidence of "Union Made".

Some of the Aria model numbers had the 'e' suffix, some not.

What we can say with great accuracy is that the 6830 and 6830E models were made by Matsumoku, Japan in 1971. In 1972, these models were re-identified with the FT model series. The 6830 model number was replaced by FT150. This was a top of the line Dreadnaught. Bolt on neck, but with a heel, I think.

Back out of this thread, then when on the Acoustics Board page, scroll to the bottom and in the field "Show Topics" select "ALL" from the drop down. Then scroll to the top, then select "Search". Select "Acoustics" board, then type in "6830" to read a lot of articles about your model. Then select "Search" again and search for "Matsumoku" in the Acoustics board to get a bit if history. you may need to dig a bit to find the stuff.

Congrats! on the garage sale find! It's not a particularly valuable guitar, but at garage sale prices, you can seldom go wrong. These have tone that won't quit.

How's the action? Is the neck block secure?

My avatar is of my own FT145SB, a later iteration of the Aria models. I love her to death.

And finally, Pictures! we always like pictures. :)
~~~~~~~
"Fair" is never "Even" --- me again.
"... and Bob's your uncle," --- TWilson
"The closer you get to civilization, the less civilized humans become" --- me again.
"Never be afraid to try something new. Remember that the Ark was built by a lone amateur and the Titanic by a staff of highly educated, highly trained engineers." ... Jimmy John's.

Guitars = Chick Magnet
Guitar Hero = Guy Magnet
You do the math.

"If you've got time to breathe, you've got time for music," Briscoe Darling
"If it ain't got a hole, it ain't got no soul," me, TommyK

#3 User is offline   zoid_99 

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Posted 14 April 2010 - 08:27 AM

Quote

Definitely made in Japan and NOT union made.
Congrats! on the garage sale find! It's not a particularly valuable guitar, but at garage sale prices, you can seldom go wrong. These have tone that won't quit.

How's the action? Is the neck block secure?

My avatar is of my own FT145SB, a later iteration of the Aria models. I love her to death.

And finally, Pictures! we always like pictures. :-k


Thanks for the info. The action is great and the neck seem secure to the block. Of course the guitar was strung without a bone in the adjustable bridge so it's using the metal as the bridge. Who know what the action will be like after I get a bridge bone. The guitar sounds great which is amazing considering the bridge. I will take some pictures and post them this evening.

Chris

#4 User is offline   brianh 

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Posted 14 April 2010 - 08:40 AM

Hey zoid, congrats on the 6830. That was a SCORE for $20.

A couple of us here have fooled with the bridge and other stuff on those models, here's a recent thread:

http://forums.epipho...g=posts&t=13608
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
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#5 User is offline   zoid_99 

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Posted 15 April 2010 - 09:53 AM

Quote

Hey zoid, congrats on the 6830. That was a SCORE for $20.

A couple of us here have fooled with the bridge and other stuff on those models, here's a recent thread:

http://forums.epipho...g=posts&t=13608




Thanks for that. I would really like to get rid of the adjustable bridge and those are good options, however.......

I carried the guitar to the local music store that is really good with setting up and repairing almost anything with strings:

http://www.thefretshop.com/

And they pronounced my Epiphone as "not worth fixing". It looks like the glue on the supports for the neck are has gon and that made the neck collapse in a little(lot). I think it's still a worthy challenge and I think I will work on it myself over time. I will keep you updated....

#6 User is offline   brianh 

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Posted 15 April 2010 - 10:35 AM

Yeah, don't give up yet.

Post some pics here so the expert textperts can see the issues...
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
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#7 User is offline   TommyK 

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Posted 16 April 2010 - 06:54 AM

Been there done that. Your FT suffers from the Norlin FT broken loose neck block syndrome. In deed it could cost as much as the guitar is worth to fix. This is a break even to negative cash flow situation, but if the guitar is a family heirloom, then paying to have it fixed is a good option. Trouble is most techs or luthiers haven't spent the time to figure out how to do it. True, I did get some ideas from 'The Man' Frank Ford, but the final solution of how to brace it and how to clamp it is all mine.

Quite honestly, though, this doesn't take up a lot of shop time. Most of the time is waiting for the glue to dry. Once the brackets are made, each step only takes a few minutes, where upon a luthier can turn to other projects and come back later to do the next.

Here is my fix.

>>> http://forums.epipho...?g=posts&t=1100 <<<

Works like a charm and Epi is still holding. Either do it yourself or show the instructions to the luthier and have him have a go at it.

Several posters here have looked at my advice since I've posted it. I haven't heard anything from anyone else doing the fix.. good or bad.

Good luck on the fix. I'd really, really love to see some before and after pics.
~~~~~~~
"Fair" is never "Even" --- me again.
"... and Bob's your uncle," --- TWilson
"The closer you get to civilization, the less civilized humans become" --- me again.
"Never be afraid to try something new. Remember that the Ark was built by a lone amateur and the Titanic by a staff of highly educated, highly trained engineers." ... Jimmy John's.

Guitars = Chick Magnet
Guitar Hero = Guy Magnet
You do the math.

"If you've got time to breathe, you've got time for music," Briscoe Darling
"If it ain't got a hole, it ain't got no soul," me, TommyK

#8 User is offline   zoid_99 

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Posted 16 April 2010 - 07:20 AM

Quote

Been there done that. Your FT suffers from the Norlin FT broken loose neck block syndrome. In deed it could cost as much as the guitar is worth to fix. This is a break even to negative cash flow situation, but if the guitar is a family heirloom, then paying to have it fixed is a good option. Trouble is most techs or luthiers haven't spent the time to figure out how to do it. True, I did get some ideas from 'The Man' Frank Ford, but the final solution of how to brace it and how to clamp it is all mine.

Quite honestly, though, this doesn't take up a lot of shop time. Most of the time is waiting for the glue to dry. Once the brackets are made, each step only takes a few minutes, where upon a luthier can turn to other projects and come back later to do the next.

Here is my fix.

>>> http://forums.epipho...?g=posts&t=1100 <<<

Works like a charm and Epi is still holding. Either do it yourself or show the instructions to the luthier and have him have a go at it.

Several posters here have looked at my advice since I've posted it. I haven't heard anything from anyone else doing the fix.. good or bad.

Good luck on the fix. I'd really, really love to see some before and after pics.


I want to post some picts but my daughter ran off with my camera and my cell phone camera is ...well.. crap :-k Thanks for the fix. This looks promising! I think I can do this [biggrin]

#9 User is offline   zoid_99 

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Posted 16 April 2010 - 08:29 AM

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#10 User is offline   brianh 

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Posted 19 April 2010 - 02:38 AM

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Zoid, other than the neck block issue yours appears to be in much better overall shape than mine. It appears you are missing the white plastic saddle though, perhaps it was removed to compensate for the action raising up due to the neck joint issues. Those are easy to replace, and will make it sound much better. You can also ditch the metal saddle slot and replace it with something lighter and less metallic, here's a pic of one I fabricated out of ebony:

Posted Image
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#11 User is offline   zoid_99 

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Posted 19 April 2010 - 07:57 AM

[quote name='brianh]Zoid' date=' other than the neck block issue yours appears to be in much better overall shape than mine. It appears you are missing the white plastic saddle though, perhaps it was removed to compensate for the action raising up due to the neck joint issues. Those are easy to replace, and will make it sound much better. You can also ditch the metal saddle slot and replace it with something lighter and less metallic, here's a pic of one I fabricated out of ebony:[/quote']

I really like what you did with the bridge. I'm pretty sure that this one doesn't have the saddle because it would raise the action to a point where it's unplayable.

#12 User is offline   TommyK 

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Posted 19 April 2010 - 08:09 AM

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I really like what you did with the bridge. I'm pretty sure that this one doesn't have the saddle because it would raise the action to a point where it's unplayable.


Your pictures reveal the saddle has long ago disappeared. You could put a new saddle in the holder, once you get the action situation under control.
~~~~~~~
"Fair" is never "Even" --- me again.
"... and Bob's your uncle," --- TWilson
"The closer you get to civilization, the less civilized humans become" --- me again.
"Never be afraid to try something new. Remember that the Ark was built by a lone amateur and the Titanic by a staff of highly educated, highly trained engineers." ... Jimmy John's.

Guitars = Chick Magnet
Guitar Hero = Guy Magnet
You do the math.

"If you've got time to breathe, you've got time for music," Briscoe Darling
"If it ain't got a hole, it ain't got no soul," me, TommyK

#13 User is offline   zoid_99 

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Posted 19 April 2010 - 10:40 AM

[quote name='TommyK]Your pictures reveal the saddle has long ago disappeared. You could put a new saddle in the holder' date=' once you get the action situation under control. [/quote']


I think you are right. Looking at that picture again, it must some kind of optical illusion that makes the strings look bent.

#14 User is offline   brianh 

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Posted 19 April 2010 - 10:47 AM

I did a little regluing in the neck block area when I was working on mine, but it was just clamping the veneer down in an area it had separated from the block, no big deal. But the neck block is very accessible as opposed to working on the lower body area, so with the right clamps, some Titebond glue, a replacement saddle, and the guidance of the esteemed members here, I predict a successful project.
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
-- Albert Einstein

#15 User is offline   TommyK 

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Posted 21 April 2010 - 02:59 PM

[quote name='brianh]I did a little regluing in the neck block area when I was working on mine' date=' but it was just clamping the veneer down in an area it had separated from the block, no big deal. But the neck block is very accessible as opposed to working on the lower body area, so with the right clamps, some Titebond glue, a replacement saddle, and the guidance of the esteemed members here, I predict a successful project.[/quote']


I used two part epoxy to re-glue as it was at the factory, then hide glue for the braces.

Epoxy fills in gaps from splintered wood laminate.

Hide glue holds better. It doesn't creep under stress like Titebond (alaphatic resin) or Elmer's white (PVA) glue... or Epoxy. I had done this in the past, but it was only strong enough for nylon strings.

I epoxied the neck block back with Epoxy due to the splinteredness of the narrow strip of wood I was working with. But, it did hold solid enough without string tension so that I could get my hide glue installed brackets in place.
~~~~~~~
"Fair" is never "Even" --- me again.
"... and Bob's your uncle," --- TWilson
"The closer you get to civilization, the less civilized humans become" --- me again.
"Never be afraid to try something new. Remember that the Ark was built by a lone amateur and the Titanic by a staff of highly educated, highly trained engineers." ... Jimmy John's.

Guitars = Chick Magnet
Guitar Hero = Guy Magnet
You do the math.

"If you've got time to breathe, you've got time for music," Briscoe Darling
"If it ain't got a hole, it ain't got no soul," me, TommyK

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