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Broken Headstocks on Gibsons?


onewilyfool

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I have been to see two "vintage" Gibsons, and both had repaired headstocks. Neither was disclosed by buyer, so going to see them was total waste of time. But that is another story. I have seen many times in listings on EBAY and Craig's list, that Gibson headstocks were broken, especially the vintage guitars. I must admit, that the thickness of the Gibson headstock is rather thin, and since these necks come from solid pieces of wood, usually Mahogany, you think that with the propensity for the neck to break on Gibsons, that they would THICKEN the neck a little to alleviate this problem????? I'm all for tradition, but if it is NOT working, why cling to it? Just an opinion.....

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Generally I'm very wary of a broken neck/headstock.

 

But, if it's a smallish crack with a pro fix, I'll go for it. I've got a 98 Martin D-45vr with a repaired neck crack on the treble side of the nut. Other than that pro repair, it's in pristine shape. Plays great, sounds great and got it for a nice little price. B)

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Most head stocks are broken from abuse. Mainly dropping the guitar. Rare is the instrument that has a broken head stock from normal string use.My J-45 was dropped head stock snapped & pulled off bridge. Had head stock and bridge glued back on 15 years ago never had another problem. Actually the guitar plays and sounds bettter after the repair. I know it doesn't look too good but guitars are meant to be heard. I would rather hear someone say that guitar sure sounds good then to hear them say that sure is a pretty guitar.

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I dropped one of my Gibsons some years back and broke the headstock. Took it to an authorized Gibson repairman who fixed it and honestly it plays better than it did before the headstock broke. So, if its fixed well and properly it a broken headstock can be overlooked in terms of playability. However, looks wise it now has a battle scar...but, so it goes.

 

QM aka Jazzman Jeff

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I have been to see two "vintage" Gibsons, and both had repaired headstocks. Neither was disclosed by buyer, so going to see them was total waste of time. But that is another story. I have seen many times in listings on EBAY and Craig's list, that Gibson headstocks were broken, especially the vintage guitars. I must admit, that the thickness of the Gibson headstock is rather thin, and since these necks come from solid pieces of wood, usually Mahogany, you think that with the propensity for the neck to break on Gibsons, that they would THICKEN the neck a little to alleviate this problem????? I'm all for tradition, but if it is NOT working, why cling to it? Just an opinion.....

 

And you know that Gibson's have a greater "propensity for the neck to break" than any other acoustic guitar how? I mean, what information is that based on, other than that you've seen a total of two vintage Gibson's with broken headstocks and have seen similiar listings. Any comparisons with say, old Martin's, or any other brand? Not to defend Gibson here, but your conclusion that this is something endemic to Gibson seems a bit of a stretch. As has been said already, most headstock breaks are caused by user abuse.

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And you know that Gibson's have a greater "propensity for the neck to break" than any other acoustic guitar how? I mean, what information is that based on, other than that you've seen a total of two vintage Gibson's with broken headstocks and have seen similiar listings. Any comparisons with say, old Martin's, or any other brand? Not to defend Gibson here, but your conclusion that this is something endemic to Gibson seems a bit of a stretch. As has been said already, most headstock breaks are caused by user abuse.

Its really a fact.

Talk to a man who fixes broke headstocks and he will say gibsons break the most.

I hate this guy alot...but hes right on this topic.

Headstocks breaking on gibbys

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Gibsons have been plagued with broken necks around the nut since 1965. Had to do with the thin necks and new headstock angle they started using that year. They did add a volute later in the 1960s but put the thing in the wrong place and it actually made the problem worse.

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Don't know anything about the guy who runs the site where the link leads to, but he sure goes after Gibsons. No love lost there. Maybe he has a good reason. I don't know. I can only judge by my personal experience.............The first Gibson I ever owned was a B25 that my parents bought me before I went in the army in 1967. After reading the comments on the link provided I've come to the conclusion that I was pretty lucky giving it to my cousin Frank in the early 90's before the headstock broke and caused me unneeded expense.. He had it for 7-8 years then gave it to one of his kids. I betcha it broke by now. Damn Gibsons.

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Apologies for Gibson's problematic neck design aside......I'm pretty sure thickening the headstock where it meets the neck, or adding a volute, or redesigning it in some way would really help this problem. This is where being a slave to tradition does NOT work.

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Don't know anything about the guy who runs the site where the link leads to, but he sure goes after Gibsons. No love lost there. Maybe he has a good reason. I don't know.

 

This guy and his rants are really well known. You should read what he thinks of PRS guitars.

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I did go back and read through some of the website. Lots of ranting and *****ing about their competition. Everyone is wrong, except for them. That is the exact message I get from the site. In all sincerity, they're description of Guitar Center is nothing like what I know of Guitar Center. Is GC perfect? Of course not. No business is, but the description of GC I found on the site is nothing like my dealings with the store near me. GC is a big business and you can take it or leave it. The site also says that they're dropping Taylors because "all" of the Taylors had cracks in the finish "worse than usual." Also says every Garrison they got was a problem. I didn't have time to read everything, because the *****ing about something or other is everywhere. The drift I got is that they don't carry Gibson. Maybe that's one of their problems with Gibson. Here's a quote about Taylor and Garrison and some other guitar builders unnamed--"Every Garrison guitar that came in was a problem, all the Taylor guitar were finish cracking even worse than usual. In fact I discontinued all the brands that were manufactured south of the Mason Dixon line due to the incredible problems I was having keeping them set up and the finish cracks were driving me crazy.".......Anyway, you can read it all for yourself by going to the link supplied in another post. ....This is often the caliber of crap people use as basis for bashing Gibson, Martin, Taylor, and/or whoever else is the target-of-the-day. Threads like this will continue to show-up on guitar forums because people with an ax-to-grind are going to find something to say, even if it's exaggerated. Just my view.

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Here is why I really like Gibsons-I once closed a trunk lid on my j 200 which was in a gig bag. Ambolutley nothing happened to the guitar

but nearly gave me a heart attack as I was opening the bag to view the damage.

 

Another topic which should be immediately addressed-THESE CRAZY PASSWORDS ONE MUST HAVE TO ENTER THE HALLOWED HALLS OF THIS FORUM.

The CIA should hire the guy who makes them up-and/or put them on locks on mensroom cubicles-that would sure cut down

on waiting time to get in one.

 

Moose

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Here is why I really like Gibsons-I once closed a trunk lid on my j 200 which was in a gig bag. Ambolutley nothing happened to the guitar

but nearly gave me a heart attack as I was opening the bag to view the damage.

 

Another topic which should be immediately addressed-THESE CRAZY PASSWORDS ONE MUST HAVE TO ENTER THE HALLOWED HALLS OF THIS FORUM.

The CIA should hire the guy who makes them up-and/or put them on locks on mensroom cubicles-that would sure cut down

on waiting time to get in one.

 

Moose

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Just watch the eBay seller "soundscheapinc" and count how many Gibson/Epiphone broken headstocks come through that place a month. In currently listed guitars, 9 of 11 of the Epiphones (1 acoustic, 7 electrics and one bass - SG, Les Paul styles) have neck cracks or breaks. You see a smattering of other brands with broken or cracked headstocks/necks, but by far the majority are Gibson/Epiphone. My guess is it is related to the headstock angle / one-piece neck and neck contour (thinness) of the design. I'm no design expert but those kind of numbers point to a trend.

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In regard to broken headstocks or necks on Gibsons and Epiphones VS other brands, consider that many other brands do NOT sell B-Grade or damaged products to wholesalers/refurbishers, so Ebay discount sellers never receive such stock.

When was the last time you saw an Ebay B-stock or Refurbished seller offering a Martin or a Taylor?

 

Gibson has a HUGE business and seeks to make money at as many price levels as possible, so if SOMEONE out there will by a factory goofed-up guitar or a return that was damaged in shipping, well, why not?

 

What I'm saying here is that other brands may have similar problems, but the public isn't aware of those problems because those brands protect their image better than Gibson. That's probably why you see so many broken headstock, broken neck, and B-stock Gibson/Epiphone guitars for sale on Ebay and at Online Guitar sellers.

Gibson seeks to SELL and make money! It's a business.

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I will just keep taking good care of my guitars and assume that the necks don't snap like dry twigs. Everyone I know that has had a broken headstock on any brand of guitar did it by having the guitar faceplant on a stage after falling off a poorly designed stand. That is not Gibson's fault.

 

Oh.... Ed Roman is a Dumb-A$$ too... [flapper][thumbdn]

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I will just keep taking good care of my guitars and assume that the necks don't snap like dry twigs. Everyone I know that has had a broken headstock on any brand of guitar did it by having the guitar faceplant on a stage after falling off a poorly designed stand. That is not Gibson's fault.

 

Oh.... Ed Roman is a Dumb-A$$ too... [flapper][thumbdn]

 

 

Paul.....I agree, but it does seem that Gibsons, at least on Craigslist, seem to have a problem with breaking. The head luthier at the top store in our area agrees. The headstocks seem to be thin compared to others, and I'm not bashing Gibson, but since necks are carved out of single pieces of Mahogany usually, to add a volute or thicken the headstock where it meets the neck, (most work being done by CNC machines) would NOT change the quality of sound. Being a slave to a design made 70 years ago, when it can be easily fixed or improved, is just not good design as far as I'm concerned. I can't believe a buyer would say, "Wow!!! I'm not going to buy that brand new Gibson, because the headstock is 1/8" thicker than a 1930 version of the same guitar...." I think this is a valid criticism......and Gibson should take this kind of design improvement to heart.....I, also, am not a big fan of Ed Roman.....but freedom of speech seems to be the norm......It just so happens, that I went to see two Gibsons for sale last week or so that had broken headstocks (not disclosed) and I see them all the time in Craigslist.....More so than any other guitar listed. This is not a conclusive survey, but it is something I notice, since I am always on the lookout for nice Gibbys.

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Paul.....I agree, but it does seem that Gibsons, at least on Craigslist, seem to have a problem with breaking. The head luthier at the top store in our area agrees. The headstocks seem to be thin compared to others, and I'm not bashing Gibson, but since necks are carved out of single pieces of Mahogany usually, to add a volute or thicken the headstock where it meets the neck, (most work being done by CNC machines) would NOT change the quality of sound. Being a slave to a design made 70 years ago, when it can be easily fixed or improved, is just not good design as far as I'm concerned. I can't believe a buyer would say, "Wow!!! I'm not going to buy that brand new Gibson, because the headstock is 1/8" thicker than a 1930 version of the same guitar...." I think this is a valid criticism......and Gibson should take this kind of design improvement to heart.....I, also, am not a big fan of Ed Roman.....but freedom of speech seems to be the norm......It just so happens, that I went to see two Gibsons for sale last week or so that had broken headstocks (not disclosed) and I see them all the time in Craigslist.....More so than any other guitar listed. This is not a conclusive survey, but it is something I notice, since I am always on the lookout for nice Gibbys.

 

Gibson necks are prone to break in a fall for a few reasons. One is the headstock angle. Since it is seveteen degrees, there is less wood left around the truss rod cavity than if the headstock were made with a shallower angle (the increased angle is thought to put more pressure on the strings at the nut, and thus increase clarity and sustain). Another reason is that many Gibson necks are famously slim; slim necks leave less wood around the truss rod cavity; fuller necks leave more. A third reason is that for most Gibson necks are carved from one piece of solid mahogany, as that is thought to be acoustically superior. The exceptions are the three and five peice laminated maple necks found on models like the J200 and some electric archtops, which color the tone in their own unique way.

 

Gibson did several things in the past to strengthen the area beghind the nut. In 1966, they began to decrease the neck angle from seventeen to fourteen degrees, which left more wood there. In late 1969/early 1970, they began to add additional wood via a volute. Neither of these changes proved popular to players, as they effected comfort and playability (and in the case of the neck angle, some say sound and sustain). The neck angle was returned to seventeen degrees by 1973, and the volute was gone by 1981 (though there are a couple of models, like the Alex Lifeson ES 355 that do have volutes).

 

Obviously, a great many Gibson necks have survived intact for many years, so they do not just snap by themselves. If you drop a Gibson or it falls from a stand, it is more prone to snap at the headstock than many other brands, due to the specific design features discussed. You have to balance this risk with the benefits in sound and playabily those specific design features provide, though. Any guitar is at risk, though, in a fall.

 

Red 333

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I called my cousing Frank yesterday. We hadn't talked for a while...You know how familys get all spread-out and miles and time come between..Anyway, while we were chatting I asked him about that old B25. He laughed about how old it was when he got it and beat on it for almost a decade before giving it to his married son. But with a heavy heart I must report that the guitar is no longer playable. Seems that last year sometime Frank's 4-year-old grandson, Johnny (good name for a guitar player) fell on the guitar and totally caved-in the top and sides. The B25 is gone.........Looks like Gibsons have more trouble than bad necks. They've also got tops that are obviously weak and thin. This and Craig's List is definitive proof that Gibson makes flawed instruments. Buyer Beware! :-({|=

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