Gibson Brands Forums: When does it become "vintage"? - Gibson Brands Forums

Jump to content

Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

When does it become "vintage"?

#1 User is offline   audiomitch 

  • Advanced Member
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 108
  • Joined: 01-June 10

Posted 18 August 2010 - 02:49 AM

I'm guessing my '84 Les Paul Custom isn't quite there yet?
0

#2 User is offline   Notes_Norton 

  • Advanced Member
  • Group: All Access
  • Posts: 13853
  • Joined: 09-January 08

Posted 18 August 2010 - 07:59 AM

How about my 1970 ES-330. Is it vintage yet?

Notes ♫


Insights and incites by Notes

♫ Bob "Notes" Norton ♫

Owner, Norton Music ► www.nortonmusic.com
Add-on styles for Band-in-a-Box and Microsoft SongSmith

The Sophisticats ► www.s-cats.com

-1

#3 User is offline   bosrocker51 

  • Member
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 36
  • Joined: 13-June 08

Posted 18 August 2010 - 02:22 PM

some people say 20 years old is vintage. on another forum they do not consider it vintage unless it's pre-1965

I think it would be nice if we could get a group of the knowledgable from different forums to decide what "vintage" really is. Maybe pre-65 is antique, with any instrument that is 25 years old or more being vintage.... just an idea...
Bosrocker51

LP Deluxe
LP Junior
ES 137
SG Standard
0

#4 User is offline   izzy22 

  • Newbie
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 5
  • Joined: 19-August 10

Posted 20 August 2010 - 10:58 AM

20 yrs., I believe, is the norm - although I believe it should be taken into account if the instrument is still being made; changes from 20 yrs.ago to today in mfg. techniques & materials; & most important, if that axe, 20 yrs, ago, and certainly more importantly today, had/has a "vibe". That's what vintage implies to me.
0

#5 User is offline   Mikkelfarside 

  • Member
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 15
  • Joined: 18-August 10

Posted 21 August 2010 - 06:43 AM

I guess my 64 j-45 just make it then... :rolleyes:
0

#6 User is offline   dynacoustics 

  • Member
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 16
  • Joined: 19-August 10

Posted 21 August 2010 - 07:57 AM

I have been buying and selling used instruments with some called "vintage" for many years. By definition, much like automobiles, guitars and other instruments are usually considered "vintage" starting at 25 years old and fully documented and in completely original condition. However, there is much more to the term. Having an "old" guitar doesn't itself make it a "vintage" guitar, as the term more closely has been viewed as reflecting a certain period pertaining to each manufacturer when build quality, materials, finish, craftsmanship, and attention to detail made instruments highly desirable to collectors. This is the more elusive but accurate description of "Vintage". My web site Vintageguitarsales.com deals with this on a weekly basis. People want too much money because they own a 1971 Les Paul Deluxe. Yes old, but build quality at its' worst. Sandwich mahogany body, maple neck, pronounced neck volute, cheap mini humbucking pickups, large flared hourglass headstock, these guitars which some may play nicely people do not want as collectors. Yes Pete Townsend had one and stuck a standard humbucker in the middle position on it, but no one else really collects them. So as an example, the term "vintage" at best can be problematic. But for people who deal in the dollar value attached to the term, it is identified somewhat more closely as "old and desired" as opposed to "old" only.
2

#7 User is offline   dem00n 

  • Anti-EMG's
  • Group: All Access
  • Posts: 12227
  • Joined: 27-December 08
  • LocationNew York

Posted 22 August 2010 - 01:05 AM

 dynacoustics, on 21 August 2010 - 07:57 AM, said:

I have been buying and selling used instruments with some called "vintage" for many years. By definition, much like automobiles, guitars and other instruments are usually considered "vintage" starting at 25 years old and fully documented and in completely original condition. However, there is much more to the term. Having an "old" guitar doesn't itself make it a "vintage" guitar, as the term more closely has been viewed as reflecting a certain period pertaining to each manufacturer when build quality, materials, finish, craftsmanship, and attention to detail made instruments highly desirable to collectors. This is the more elusive but accurate description of "Vintage". My web site Vintageguitarsales.com deals with this on a weekly basis. People want too much money because they own a 1971 Les Paul Deluxe. Yes old, but build quality at its' worst. Sandwich mahogany body, maple neck, pronounced neck volute, cheap mini humbucking pickups, large flared hourglass headstock, these guitars which some may play nicely people do not want as collectors. Yes Pete Townsend had one and stuck a standard humbucker in the middle position on it, but no one else really collects them. So as an example, the term "vintage" at best can be problematic. But for people who deal in the dollar value attached to the term, it is identified somewhat more closely as "old and desired" as opposed to "old" only.

The norlin time brought out awesome guitars still.
I dont own one, but i might one day.
______________________________________________________________
Gonna buy me a graveyard of my own
Kill everyone who ever done me wrong
Gonna buy me a gun just as long as my arm
Kill everyone who ever done me harm
1

#8 User is offline   freak show 

  • Belle of the Ball
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 1144
  • Joined: 06-January 10
  • LocationOut to lunch

Posted 24 August 2010 - 07:34 AM

A lot of times it depends on the circumstances.

For example, if you're trying to SELL a Gibson from the Norlin era, many will claim those aren't vintage guitars.

But when the same people want you to BUY a Norlin Gibson, it's "vintage pure".

The whole collectibility-issue is nonsense to me. Some people pay too much for "vintage guitars", others spend a fortune for a stamp or Madonna's old underwear.

I don't know if a Custom from '84 is vintage, but I'll bet it's a great guitar.
"Now it's time to leave the capsule, if you dare."
0

#9 User is offline   Rame 

  • Advanced Member
  • Group: Banned
  • Posts: 196
  • Joined: 10-August 08

Posted 24 August 2010 - 10:51 AM

 freak show, on 24 August 2010 - 07:34 AM, said:

A lot of times it depends on the circumstances.

For example, if you're trying to SELL a Gibson from the Norlin era, many will claim those aren't vintage guitars.

But when the same people want you to BUY a Norlin Gibson, it's "vintage pure".



+100 It depends on if you're trying to sell it or buy it.

I've always heard the 25 year mark as determining it as vintage. But dyanacoustics' point is well made. Old doesn't necessarily mean vintage as vintage denotes a certain quality where as old is just....well... old.
0

#10 User is offline   Gaolee 

  • Knuckle dragger
  • Group: All Access
  • Posts: 1628
  • Joined: 16-January 10
  • LocationThe Great North Wet

Posted 24 August 2010 - 01:45 PM

 Rame, on 24 August 2010 - 10:51 AM, said:

+100 It depends on if you're trying to sell it or buy it.

I've always heard the 25 year mark as determining it as vintage. But dyanacoustics' point is well made. Old doesn't necessarily mean vintage as vintage denotes a certain quality where as old is just....well... old.



I guess my EB-2 is just old, then. It was modified when it was new, and it's in great shape, but it is not stock and therefore not a collector's item. Playing, not collecting, is more important anyway.
Thump to live.
Live to thump.
0

#11 User is offline   Notes_Norton 

  • Advanced Member
  • Group: All Access
  • Posts: 13853
  • Joined: 09-January 08

Posted 24 August 2010 - 04:49 PM

Well I decided my 1970 Kalamazoo ES-330 was a collector's item when I saw them going for $5,000 on eBay. Since I play sax, wind synthesizer, guitar, flute, vocals, percussion controller, and sometimes keyboard synth on stage, and in addition often need to switch instruments very quickly, I bought an Epiphone Casino to play on stage (Gibson hadn't re-introduced the 330 at that time). I just couldn't see putting the 330 in a position where it was easy to get banged up.

The Casino is about 90% the guitar that the Gibson is, and it actually sounds better plugged in due to the fact that it has Duncan P90s in it.

But I don't buy my instruments to be collectors. I generally use my instruments until they are worn out. I play music for a living, and I do one-nighters, both of which are very hard on an instrument. By the time I'm done with them, there is usually very little resale value left in them.

I now play the Gibson at home, and bring either my Casino or my ESP to the gig.

And even though I have no intention of selling the 330, I will now consider it Vintage, after all it's 40 years old!!!

Posted Image

Insights, incites and a little self-amusement by Notes ♫


Insights and incites by Notes

♫ Bob "Notes" Norton ♫

Owner, Norton Music ► www.nortonmusic.com
Add-on styles for Band-in-a-Box and Microsoft SongSmith

The Sophisticats ► www.s-cats.com

-1

#12 User is offline   Spot 

  • Advanced Member
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 1193
  • Joined: 18-February 08
  • LocationLondres

Posted 29 August 2010 - 04:56 AM

 audiomitch, on 18 August 2010 - 02:49 AM, said:

I'm guessing my '84 Les Paul Custom isn't quite there yet?



Great thread and a great question! It often makes me laugh at what EBAY sellers try to pass off as vintage.

[thumbup]
Guitars

'58 LG-2 w/
Bob Colosi Black Buffalo Horn Bridge pins
'60 ES-125T
'63 Country Western
'64 J-50 w
/ Bob Colosi Bone Bridge pins
'79 ES-335 TD

'82 Epi Sheraton (MIJ)
'97 Epi Sheraton II (USA)

'49 Martin 00-17 w
/ Bob Colosi Bone Bridge pins


..........................................................and a few Harmony's
0

#13 User is offline   BoBoBlues 

  • Member
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 46
  • Joined: 18-August 10
  • LocationRocky Mount, NC

Posted 19 September 2010 - 09:06 PM

 bosrocker51, on 18 August 2010 - 02:22 PM, said:

some people say 20 years old is vintage. on another forum they do not consider it vintage unless it's pre-1965

I think it would be nice if we could get a group of the knowledgable from different forums to decide what "vintage" really is. Maybe pre-65 is antique, with any instrument that is 25 years old or more being vintage.... just an idea...


That sounds about right. My '83 HD-28 is not considered vintage like the old Martins that were "voiced" by the luthiers. I mean using their fingers to tap the wood in various places, then remove some wood here or there, and tap again. This labor/skill-intensive method wasn't fast enough to keep up with demand, so Martin took some of the better sounding examples from each of their luthiers, measured all the differences, came up with a weighted average, and now they're all standardized. That doesn't mean they all sound alike, as with any wood instrument, there will be some variation. The '83 'bone sounded good when new, but she's really opened up in the last ten years and is much more resonate...I can feel it in the vibrations on my chest.
Ignorance is curable...but stupidity is terminal!
0

#14 User is offline   Tom Hollyer 

  • Member
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 31
  • Joined: 08-May 09

Posted 22 September 2010 - 12:47 PM

dyanacoustic is essentially correct, in my view.

Age alone does not constitute vintage. One dictionary definition of vintage includes "denoting something of high quality, esp. something from the past or characteristic of the best period of a person's (or in this case, company's) work."

Now we can all argue about what the "best period" is, but I will stand by that definition. Bottom line, it ain't merely age.
0

#15 User is offline   marantz1300 

  • Member
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 59
  • Joined: 20-May 08

Posted 12 November 2010 - 01:36 PM

My 71 Deluxe and 76 SG may be just old rather then "vintage". It depends who you ask. As for Norlins being rubbish,dont believe it.Try some your self. I have had SG's and Les Pauls and les paul Customs from the 1990's to 2007 . The 71 is my favorite.As for the quirks,pancake ,volute etc,they make no difference to how it plays or its tone ,which are both superb. Dont believe the "all 70's Gibsons/Fenders are rubbish " myth.Judge each guitar on its merit,those who believe otherwise are missing out.Posted Image
0

#16 User is offline   prewargibsons 

  • Member
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 24
  • Joined: 01-November 10

Posted 14 November 2010 - 03:58 AM

I know this is vintage........1940s EH-185
0

#17 User is offline   retrorod 

  • Advanced Member
  • Group: All Access
  • Posts: 4577
  • Joined: 29-December 07
  • LocationNorth Carolina

Posted 14 November 2010 - 02:33 PM

A guitar usually becomes 'vintage' and worth big money, the day after I sell it for a little 'coin'! :-({|=
"You never know what worse luck your bad luck has saved you from."--Cormac McCarthy


"It requires wisdom to understand wisdom: the music is nothing if the audience is deaf.

-Walter Lippman


Just because I don't say it....does not mean, that I may not think it! - ME
0

#18 User is offline   damian 

  • The Guitar Whisperer
  • Group: Members
  • Posts: 9126
  • Joined: 23-October 10
  • LocationIn The Misty Mountains With My Black Dog

Posted 20 November 2010 - 01:04 AM

It's 26 years old......consider it vintage.....keep it.......don't sell it.......
I use Atlas Stands because they are the best................. http://www.facebook.com/atlasstands ......American Made.......Rewind Pickups; MIA and the Best.......
.....................Codtone Pedals from OZ......................................." Ya'll remove hats, please "...................................Motor City Pickups......................................
.................................." I hate it when people compare god with jimmy page, I mean, he's good and all, but he's no jimmy page."..................................
Music Consultant, Songwriter........................................ - THE MENSA PRETZEL LOGIC PROJECT - .............................. Advocate for the Disabled, Gentle Hellraiser.

" It occured to me by intuition, and music was the driving force behind that intuition. My discovery was the result of musical perception." Einstein on his theory of relativity.
" Music is a higher relevation than all wisdom and philosophy. Music is the electrical soil in which the spirit lives, thinks and invents." Ludwig von Beethoven
" There's nothing remarkable about it. All one has to do is hit the right keys at the right time and the instrument plays itself.' Johann Sebastian Bach
" Playing scales is like a boxer skipping rope or a punching bag. It's not the thing itself; it's preparatory to the activity." Barney Kessel
" After silence, that which comes nearest to expressing the inexpressible is music." Aldous Hoxley
" There's a fine line between genius and insanity. I have crossed this line." Pianist Oscar Lavant
" Music came before language; musical grunts became words." Damian (copyright)
" I know how to get there, all I've got to do is keep playing." Jimmy Page
" Without music, life would be a mistake." Friedrich Nietzsche
" Music is an outburst of the soul." Fredrick Deluis
" Rock and Roll forever, man." Unknown
" Damian's cool." NeoConMan
" WTF ??? " dem00n
Posted Image
0

#19 User is offline   E-minor7 

  • Winger
  • Group: All Access
  • Posts: 8189
  • Joined: 09-June 10

Posted 20 November 2010 - 05:53 AM

My suggestions are :

Before 1975 – Vintage

Before 1955 – Veteran

Before 1935 – Antique

Which means 35, 55 and 75 years of age.
You just can't keep coincidences down. .
Posted Image . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
0

#20 User is offline   ksdaddy 

  • Carpe carp (seize the carp)
  • Group: Moderators
  • Posts: 6052
  • Joined: 28-December 07

Posted 20 November 2010 - 06:27 AM

Sometimes when I think of the term 'vintage' I use it in the sense that the guitar being described has attributes that current production models don't have (for better or worse) and (using quasi ATF Curio and Relic language) a significant portion of their value or 'identity' is derived from those attributes.

Case in point, I have a '77 Telecaster that I got new and it's all original. I don't consider it 'vintage' because it's no different than any other run of the mill Tele. On the other hand, I have an original '83 Strat that was made during the Smith Era of CBS, when they went back to the 4 bolt neck plates, began scooping the bodies more like the 50s models, went back to the smaller headstock, and (footnote in history here) it came through with a black pickguard, knobs, and pickups dated 1979 (all other early 80s ones had white plastic unless the leftover inventory was used up like on mine). Fender went through a brief period where they were cleaning out their parts bins and older parts got used up. I consider this guitar to be more 'vintage' than the Tele because it represents a snapshot in the timeline of Fender's history, specifically CBS's Swan Song and a valiant but failed attempt to recapture previously held glory. I also have an '83 P-Bass with '81 electronics and a '79 serial number on the headstock. Same thing, using up leftover parts. I don't consider either of them to be worth more, but they should be left intact.

I would probably consider Gibson' attempts at SuperStrats in the 80s as vintage for the same reasons.... or even some of the more odd 80s/90s SGs too (Kahlers, black hardware, etc).
0

Share this topic:


Page 1 of 1
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users