tonebias Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 Howdy folks, I have a question about my new SG. I love the thing, it feels right, plays decent but I have a sustain problem. When I brought it home I started noticing that it would ring well for a certain amount of time that then sort of fizzle out. Originally I just thought it was pickup height but after adjusting them quite a bit there was no effect. I also put new strings on it to no avail. Then, I decided to gut the electronics by getting rid of the silly circuit board and going for a standard 4x500K pots and PIO caps like I did on my Les Paul. Soldered all joints and shielded the cavity. Nothing... I have tried the entire setup with other guitars and they ring just fine so it’s not anything but the guitar. I sure hope I don’t have a dud SG with crappy wood, that wood suck (pun intended)… Any suggestions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tbonesullivan Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 is it set up correctly? sounds like the strings might be fretting out or something similar. If you are expecting an SG to sustain like a les paul, I've got some bad news for you: it's not a les paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonebias Posted October 22, 2010 Author Share Posted October 22, 2010 I set it up myself and I do know what I am doing. I know it isn’t a Les Paul, but it really sounds as if the pickups are too close and are shortening the sustain towards the end of the ring, though this is not the case as I have positioned them different ways in an attempt to determine if that was the problem. Com’on… it’s a solid body neck-through guitar it should have more sustain than my strat! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewddawg Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 I set it up myself and I do know what I am doing. I know it isnt a Les Paul, but it really sounds as if the pickups are too close and are shortening the sustain towards the end of the ring, though this is not the case as I have positioned them different ways in an attempt to determine if that was the problem. Comon… its a solid body neck-through guitar it should have more sustain than my strat! I know there are different thoughts on this but I have the stop bar tail piece positioned all the way against the body and I get good sustain out of all my SG's. The 2 bolts are threaded all the way down to the body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom brown Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 I notice if the intonation is not set right you don't get the "ring" and pop of the harmonics the way it should. i believe that will affect sustain also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonebias Posted October 22, 2010 Author Share Posted October 22, 2010 Intonation is dead nuts perfect.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewddawg Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 Can you show some pics of how it is setup. It would be easier to see what is going on. I assume the nut is cut right for the strings you are using. What size strings are on your axe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonebias Posted October 22, 2010 Author Share Posted October 22, 2010 I am using Ernie Ball regular 10's. I don't think the nut is the problem as it is not in the mix while fretting a note. I can post pics tonight. I'm starting to wonder about the tail and bridge seating, I did not inspect them closely before putting it back together after setup. I may also be able to record something to show how it fizzes out. Just thought of something else, I did not check continuity of the bridge to ground (ground wire may not be touching), that is something I can look at tonight as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sellen Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 I set it up myself and I do know what I am doing. I know it isn’t a Les Paul, but it really sounds as if the pickups are too close and are shortening the sustain towards the end of the ring, though this is not the case as I have positioned them different ways in an attempt to determine if that was the problem. Com’on… it’s a solid body neck-through guitar it should have more sustain than my strat! I don't think it will sustain any longer than your strat. It's not a neck through its a glued set neck, isn't it? Anyway i had a faded sg special i sold that sustained bad. Had it in for pro set-up didn't help. But it had that cool sg sound, i don't find in a les paul or a strat. I think the sg hasn't the best or biggest sound, but it has a thing on it's own that's suit me perfect. Nothin' sound's or look's as cool as the sg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewddawg Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 I am using Ernie Ball regular 10's. I don't think the nut is the problem as it is not in the mix while fretting a note. I can post pics tonight. I'm starting to wonder about the tail and bridge seating, I did not inspect them closely before putting it back together after setup. I may also be able to record something to show how it fizzes out. Just thought of something else, I did not check continuity of the bridge to ground (ground wire may not be touching), that is something I can look at tonight as well. Sounds like a good plan to me. Rewd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewddawg Posted October 22, 2010 Share Posted October 22, 2010 I don't think it will sustain any longer than your strat. It's not a neck through its a glued set neck, isn't it? Anyway i had a faded sg special i sold that sustained bad. Had it in for pro set-up didn't help. But it had that cool sg sound, i don't find in a les paul or a strat. I think the sg hasn't the best or biggest sound, but it has a thing on it's own that's suit me perfect. Nothing' sound's or look's as cool as the sg Sellen you are correct it has a glued set neck. The neck tenon goes all the way to the neck pup cavity. If you have a good tight fit it should sustain better than a strat theoretically. One way to check the fit is to pull the neck pup and see if the joint is good and tight. Basically you don't want to see any gaps between the neck tenon and the body. Rewd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonebias Posted October 23, 2010 Author Share Posted October 23, 2010 Sorry, yes correct it is not a solid through construction it is a set neck, my mistake. I think I did find something interesting while fiddling with it. Grounding seems OK, I went through and smoothed out all the mating surfaces of the tailpiece and bridge and restrung. Same problem but better sustain than before. I started to notice that it mainly the G string that is causing problems and typically after mid neck, the 12th fret is awful but there is no buzz whatsoever just a fizzle out after about 3 seconds sort of like touching the string. My thoughts now are aiming at the bridge and how the slot is cut for the G string. I filed it a bit to take any burr out and get the angle leaning towards the back, but still the same problem. I just don’t know what to think about this anymore and am starting to wonder if I should just replace the bridge and stop. Any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tman5293 Posted October 23, 2010 Share Posted October 23, 2010 I know there are different thoughts on this but I have the stop bar tail piece positioned all the way against the body and I get good sustain out of all my SG's. The 2 bolts are threaded all the way down to the body. Please tell me more about this. I have somewhat of the same problem with my SG. Sustains like sh!t. I have tried moving the tail piece up and down to no avail. Does moving it all the way down mess up intonation? Does it really add that much sustain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonebias Posted October 23, 2010 Author Share Posted October 23, 2010 Please tell me more about this. I have somewhat of the same problem with my SG. Sustains like sh!t. I have tried moving the tail piece up and down to no avail. Does moving it all the way down mess up intonation? Does it really add that much sustain? Moving the stopbar all the way down causes the strings to hit the edge of my bridge, I don't really care for that. I have moved mine as low as possible without the strings hitting the bridge but I think the problem is the stinking bridge on mine. If you move the stopbar all the way down you will put more angle pressure on the bridge and the stopbar inserts and it could affect intonation but that is easy to adjust. I am thinking about ordering the tonepros locking bridge and aluminum locking stop piece, a bit pricey but it can't hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sellen Posted October 23, 2010 Share Posted October 23, 2010 Moving the stopbar all the way down causes the strings to hit the edge of my bridge, I don't really care for that. I have moved mine as low as possible without the strings hitting the bridge but I think the problem is the stinking bridge on mine. If you move the stopbar all the way down you will put more angle pressure on the bridge and the stopbar inserts and it could affect intonation but that is easy to adjust. I am thinking about ordering the tonepros locking bridge and aluminum locking stop piece, a bit pricey but it can't hurt. I broke one of my saddles on my 61 sg a while ago. I upgraded it with a tonepros brigde and gotoh aluminum stop bar. I think the sound got more tight, maybe a bit more sustain to. So go for it, it will make a difference in your sound Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobB Posted October 23, 2010 Share Posted October 23, 2010 I changed out the stock stopbar tailpiece on my SG to the Gibson TP-6 fine-tuning tailpiece. It has greater mass than the stopbar and increased the sustain. The fine-tuning feature is a bonus when working in the studio. It got the idea to try the TP-6 tailpiece after seeing a Larry Carlton album cover where he was using a TP-6 on the ES-335 he was playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted October 23, 2010 Share Posted October 23, 2010 I changed out the stock stopbar tailpiece on my SG to the Gibson TP-6 fine-tuning tailpiece. It has greater mass than the stopbar and increased the sustain. The fine-tuning feature is a bonus when working in the studio. It got the idea to try the TP-6 tailpiece after seeing a Larry Carlton album cover where he was using a TP-6 on the ES-335 he was playing. Yeah, I did the same thing, to my 2 LP Junior Lites...another "slab" guitar, like the SG! Noticable difference, in sustain...plus they look great, too. ;>) CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewddawg Posted October 23, 2010 Share Posted October 23, 2010 Please tell me more about this. I have somewhat of the same problem with my SG. Sustains like sh!t. I have tried moving the tail piece up and down to no avail. Does moving it all the way down mess up intonation? Does it really add that much sustain? Okay the theory is if the ST bar piece bolts are threaded all the way down ( preferably to the body) but even to the top of the insert helps. You get more string vibration thru the body getting better tone and sustain. Yes if you adjust the height of the stop bar tail piece you change the intonation. Notice in the pics above the bolts to the tail pieces appear to be all the way down to the body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewddawg Posted October 23, 2010 Share Posted October 23, 2010 Nice guitars CB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bender 4 Life Posted October 24, 2010 Share Posted October 24, 2010 Please tell me more about this. I have somewhat of the same problem with my SG. Sustains like sh!t. I have tried moving the tail piece up and down to no avail. Does moving it all the way down mess up intonation? Does it really add that much sustain? if the mahogany grade is less than stellar, it can also cause the bridge to eventually "lay down" toward the t/p. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted October 24, 2010 Share Posted October 24, 2010 Nice guitars CB. Thanks, Rewddawg! They're great little guitars! CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonebias Posted October 24, 2010 Author Share Posted October 24, 2010 I refuse to screw my stopbar all the way down, like I said earlier the strings will hit the edge of the bridge and everything will bend funny putting undue stress on the wood. But, how about an alternative? How about placing a steel or aluminum spacer under the stopbar screws leaving it higher yet also allowing a very direct connection (being able to tighten it down) that will transfer vibrations to the body much better? I think I may machine some aluminum washers to fit under there to try it. That, with the aluminum locking stopbar should help the SG sustain just as well as screwing it all the way down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie brown Posted October 24, 2010 Share Posted October 24, 2010 Which model SG do you have? Special, Standard, Custom, etc.? Faded, Custom Shop, or USA? I guess I'm wondering about the wood and/or finish. My SG ('61 MIJ Standard (Glossy/Nitro) sustains forever! It's all "stock," at this point, as well. I have a mate, that's got an Epiphone G-400 Custom, that has incredible sustain, as well. He bought it, as a "mod" project, but it sounded so great, "stock," that he's left it alone. So...??? Hope you get it figured out, and it will be interesting to see what the "trouble" was, when you do. Cheers, CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo Posted October 24, 2010 Share Posted October 24, 2010 Sorry, yes correct it is not a solid through construction it is a set neck, my mistake. I think I did find something interesting while fiddling with it. Grounding seems OK, I went through and smoothed out all the mating surfaces of the tailpiece and bridge and restrung. Same problem but better sustain than before. I started to notice that it mainly the G string that is causing problems and typically after mid neck, the 12th fret is awful but there is no buzz whatsoever just a fizzle out after about 3 seconds sort of like touching the string. My thoughts now are aiming at the bridge and how the slot is cut for the G string. I filed it a bit to take any burr out and get the angle leaning towards the back, but still the same problem. I just don’t know what to think about this anymore and am starting to wonder if I should just replace the bridge and stop. Any thoughts? I had a very similar problem with one of my old SG's a few years back.The note fizzled out at the 12 fret on the G string.It was more noticeable when I used heavier strings (ie 11 upwards, and improved when I tried a wound G string).I ordered one of theose tailpieces with spacers from Larry Corsa, and that didn't solve the problem.The guitar went through 2 professional set ups (which included checking and modifying fret height,nut height,saddle height,changing string gauges etc) but the problem never went away. I tried every permutation I could think of re pickup/polepiece heights/truss rod bridge height.I came to the conclusion that it was to do with the wood/construction somehow. Incidentally-If its bad at the 12th fret on the G, does the problem move up to the 11th fret if you tune the string up a fret?.I.E could it be a "dead spot" relating to that particular frequency?. I hope you sort it out anyway, and if you do, it would be interesting to find out how you did it for future reference! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonebias Posted October 24, 2010 Author Share Posted October 24, 2010 Mine is a 2009 USA Standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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