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Gibson Epiphone Junior Model - Intonation


boots_epi

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Hi to All,

I am new to the forum and look forward to getting into discussions.

 

I have just bought a Gibson Epiphone Junior Model (sunburst and I think over 8 years old )as a second guitar.

 

Can anyone help as to How I Can Set the Intonation? I have not seen a setup like this before.

 

cheers

 

boots_epi from DownUnder

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Welcome to the forum boots_epi, it's a great place to find out anything guitar, not just Epi.

 

Wrap around bridges are one of my pet peaves, the only option they give you regarding intonation is the two horizontal (to body) screws that allow you to adjust string length on each side of the bridge thus giving a crude form of intonation.

 

The best option IMHO is to replace the bridge with an intonable Badass style bridge similar to THIS or a comensated wraparound bridge like THIS or THIS.

 

It would be much easier to make a proper assesment if we had pics to guide us.

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Hi Boots...and welcome to the forum.

 

It's part of the fun of 'junior' models to be a bit minimal in certain areas ie LP Junior...

 

One can either 'get close' with a wrapover bridge or 'get spot on' by spending some money on an adjustable bridge <_<

 

 

:-({|=

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Thanks for the welcome and the advice. Picture of model attached.

I think I prefer the ability to control the intonation string by string, so I will followup on the examples provided.

 

Also happy to take any other info from anyone else who has the same guitar and has done similar.

Also would welcome info from anyone who has changed the pickup and gotten good results.

I figure that I bought the guitar pretty cheap, it looks great, neck and frets are terrific so I might as well spend a couple of dollars improving things, especially as I have never had the guts to "fiddle" in the past and left it to the experts. Never too late to start I guess.

 

Love the forum.

cheers

 

boots_epi from Downunder

post-27003-046871100 1289383162_thumb.jpg

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Also would welcome info from anyone who has changed the pickup and gotten good results.

I figure that I bought the guitar pretty cheap, it looks great, neck and frets are terrific so I might as well spend a couple of dollars improving things, especially as I have never had the guts to "fiddle" in the past and left it to the experts. Never too late to start I guess.

Boots,

The pic you put up has a Gibson headstock on it. As yours is an Epiphone, I have a question.

Is your pickup a "dog ear" P90 as in the pic? or/ Does it have humbucker in it?

 

In any case, if you want to start upgrading, it can be fun, easy and a good learning experience. No matter what pickup you end up with, it will not go to it's potential without covering the basics first.

If the switch, pots, capacitor and wires are stock they should be changed out first. There is plenty of information on it in the DIY post at the top of the Epi Lounge. And, of course we are always willing to answer any questions.

 

Starting with the basic replacements is not that expensive and a better way to judge the pickup you have before changing it out. (the amp you are playing through can also make a big difference)

More info please....we are interested.

 

Willy

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BTW: The bridges I mentioned earlier should be direct drop-in replacements. If you decide to replace the bridge the 3 most important considerations to make are:

 

1/ Width between the posts, getting a same width replacement means no modifications to the body of the guitar.

 

2/ Overall bridge height, as long as the height is less than or equal to the distance from the top of the standard bridge (when setup) to the body surface minus a little (2.5mm or 3/32") to account for the boss on the screws that the bridge sits on.

 

3/ Diameter of the screw section (width of the screw slots on the bridge).

 

If you take these points into account then replacing the bridge should be reasonably painless. Most vendors should have these measurements on the description page for the replacement bridge.

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Hi Boots, welcome to the forum. lots of Junior owners here.

 

I'll make the counter argument that you should be able to get the wraparound very close to perfect intonation using the post set screws on the bridge. I have a '57 Reissue with a stock wraparound and it's as close to perfect intonation as any of my TOM type guitars.

 

You can buy the Leo Quan Bad-Arse style intonatable bridge ($25 - the most affordable of many kinds available) and installation is easy, but it and most of the others present another problem - the action will be unacceptably high. There are two solutions to this: a) shim the neck (not desirable because it reduces neck/body contact and therefore sustain); grind down the stud flanges (easy if you have the removal tools and a bench grinder). I've owned 5 Juniors, and done this to most of them, so I know the drill, so to speak.

 

Stew Mac has a new bridge that they claim solves this problem, but I have not tried it yet: http://www.stewmac.c...und_Bridge.html However, at $89 + shipping, it costs as much or more than the entire guitar so hard to justify unless you're putting it on a Gibson or some other expensive Junior-type guitar.

 

I have gone back to the wraparound on all but one of my Juniors because I don't think the adjustable bridge makes much of an improvement on any of the models I've owned so far, and I think (and this is an entirely subjective statement) they all sound better and have more sustain with the standard setup.

 

But the point of my post is that if you want to make an improvement to an Epi bolt-on neck Junior, the first and most important upgrade is to replace those gawd-awful press-backed tuners. The second upgrade would be to replace the nut. Both of those upgrades will go further in improving the intonation and playability of the Epi Jrs than a new bridge, IMHO.

 

Thirdly, if you have the Humbucker-equipped version, I would replace it with a good-quality HB-sized single coil or HB pickup. At that point you will have a guitar that will be more than a backup, it could become your grab n go guitar for many occaisions when you don't want to put out the good china.

 

In any case there is more about this topic and much more than you ever wanted to know about Juniors in the following links:

 

http://forum.gibson....__1#entry762495

 

http://forum.gibson....__1#entry778288

 

http://forum.gibson....__1#entry690114

 

http://forum.gibson....__1#entry672305

 

http://forum.gibson....__1#entry662190

 

Cheers, Brian

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You can buy the Leo Quan Bad-Arse style intonatable bridge ($25 - the most affordable of many kinds available) and installation is easy, but it and most of the others present another problem - the action will be unacceptably high. There are two solutions to this: a) shim the neck (not desirable because it reduces neck/body contact and therefore sustain); grind down the stud flanges (easy of you have the removal tools and a bench grinder). I've owned 5 Juniors, and done this to most of them, so I know the drill, so to speak.

Solution 3: Jiggle the threaded inserts from the body, carefully drill their holes about 3mm (1/8") deeper, re-insert them effectively giving a 3mm deep counter bore for the flanges to seat into.

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Solution 3: Jiggle the threaded inserts from the body, carefully drill their holes about 3mm (1/8") deeper, re-insert them effectively giving a 3mm deep counter bore for the flanges to seat into.

No, that won't work by itself. It's the flanges that hold the bridge off the body about 1/4".

 

You could however put a temporary wood plug into the bushing hole, and using a Forstner bit, route a bevel that would allow you to countersink the flange.

 

But that's not a reversable mod, so I haven't bothered with it. Bridge studs are cheap and plentiful, and you can't see them once the bridge is installed...

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Thanks everyone again for your interest and advice.

 

I am following up on the links you have provided and with a guitar maker / repairer over here.

Bridge and Pickup are the 2 areas I am pursuing.

 

I originally sent a picture of the type of guitar from the net.

 

Now I have attached the real thing (got around to taking a few shots last night).

I would appreciate any more info you might have on the model: age (I think at least 8 years), pickup type etc.

 

Once again many thanks .. great feedback .. great forum .. I'm enjoying this .... and learning.

 

cheers

 

boots_epi from DownUnder

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post-27003-075490900 1289525111_thumb.jpg

post-27003-082760200 1289525126_thumb.jpg

post-27003-084487000 1289525138_thumb.jpg

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Boots, does your Junior have a bolt-on neck? For a few years, Epi was making set-neck (glued in) Juniors, and they were very well made, and nearly identical to the Gibson Jrs. in dimensions and construction. They had good-quality Grover tuners, solid mahogany bodies, Epiphone-branded pickups and decent (if not top shelf) electronics. Below is a bolt-on Junior on the left and a set-neck on the right:

 

Twins.jpg

Twinsback.jpg

 

Based on the wood grain and knob placement, yours looks like a set-neck:

 

Junior1.jpg

 

However if yours has a bolt-on neck, not to worry it can still be made into a fairly decent guitar. Have your tech look at the tuners and nut and assess them for replacement. You may also want to upgrade the pickup, the bolt-on neck Junior P90 pickups were low-grade. Also on the bolt-on models, there's a lot of paint in the neck pocket. This can be sanded smooth for a tighter fit, which will improve sustain. Sometimes there's a shim in there too, which should be removed. I still assert that the compensated wraparound bridge is not the weak point of these guitars, but it was a learning experience for me and there's no better teacher than your own efforts. [cool]

 

Either way, that Junior is one of the better looking examples I've seen - congrats and enjoy!

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I recently bought a Gibson Melody Maker Reissue with a wraparound bridge, my first. The first things that I did were upgrade the tuners, nut, P90 pickup and stock wraparound bridge. I went with the Pigtail vintage aluminum wraparound as it was very highly rated for retaining the stock look, and increased adjustability and sustain. But at around $120, it's a pricey upgrade. I wasn't totally convinced that the intonation was that much better (although the sustain increase was pretty dramamtic), so I went with Pigtails adjustable wraparound. Better intonation, but uncomfortable to rest your hand on (which I do), a slight decrease in sustain and kinda loses the vintage look.

 

Here's what I came away with after spending more than I should have. Guitars with a wraparound bridge have a certain sound. Part of "that sound' is from not being able to get perfect intonation. If you aren't used to that sound, or you are a intonation freak, wraparounds probably aren't for you. I've discussed this with other guitar players and one of them came up with a pretty good assessment. How much effort do you put in to increasing the ability to intonate your acoustic guitar? The concept of the bridge is pretty much the same as a wraparound, limited adjustability. It is what it is. Embrace it or go to another guitar style. I decided that I'd get the intonation as close as I could and accept it. I went back to the first Pigtail and if I were to do it over, I'd have kept the stock one and saved the money. The alternatives may help a little, but why spend the money? You were looking for a fun, inexpensive guitar, right?

 

Just a note. I've tried lots of bridge makers fare and in my humble opinion, Pigtail makes the best out there. They are not cheap, but if your guitar justifies spending the money, theirs are the best. I am, in no way , knocking their product in this posting. If you are willing to pay a little more, it'll be money well spent.

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