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Les Paul Studio Faded - Questions

#1 User is offline   glennc 

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 07:21 AM

Hello to all,
I recently acquired a Gibson Les Paul Studio Faded. I've noted some things I was previously unaware of. First is the use of components ie: switches, Potentiometers not of the same quality as on most higher priced models and the Gibson Deluxe machine heads are made in Japan. It does have Burstbuckers though. The neck is a good 50's style profile.
Other than my initial disappointment over the above items, pots take much more effort to turn than normal on any other Gibson I do or have owned. Like to put an antique colored toggle switch cap on and they will not fit this style and brand of switch.
My main area of immediate concern is the nut. I put Gibson Vintage Reissue 10's on it and in the attached picture you can see that the grooves in the nut are not deep enough and that the middle strings seem to angle in the slot of their grooves, whereas all my others angle before the groove and the grooves are straight and parallel.

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image



The last area of concern is that I, using Gibson Spray polish on the guitar, had some of the red finish come off on the clean cotton cloth.
Gibson could not tell me if the Studio pickguard is replaceable with regular Les Paul pickquards. Anyone try this yet?
Overall would you say the guitar is defective or it can be fixed by Gibson and don't worry about the thin finish as suggested to me.
Thanks or any good advice.
glennc

#2 User is online   BigKahune 

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 09:33 AM

Remember that the LP Studio models are meant to be an inexpensive version of the LP STD.

The finish color rubbing off has come on the forum before in regards to the Faded models. There's a very thin lacquer coat that wears through quickly. Don't wear light colors.

The pots, switches and tuners is another way Gibson cuts the cost of the Studios - as well as, no binding and no headstock inlays. The Studio 50s Tribute brought a number of posts about the 3-way switch not functioning properly.

And the nut - this has been a problem area for Gibson over the last few years, along with some questionable setups (not only on Studios). You hit on the problem with the D and G strings angling - the nut slots aren't deep enough - as the top on the nut slopes back toward the headstock, the strings aren't setting down in that part of the slot, so the angle. Many have a setup done right after to purchase, and sometimes a nut is too bad and must be replaced. I've got a set of nut files for 10s just to deal with the bad nuts.

Sorry the news isn't better. The Studio is a great guitar for the money. Hope things work out for you. B)
13 Gibson CS Advanced Jumbo R/Spruce..O12 Gibson Southern Jumbo TV....O11 RainSong JM-3000 12
11 Martin 000-15M Elderly LE....................O10 Gibson ES-359......................o10 Rickenbacker 360/12
09 Jackson PC-1.....................................O09 Fender 52 Telecaster AVS..ooO08 Gibson SJ-200 (Colosi S/P)
08 Gibson Robot SG LTD........................oO08 Fender Am/Dlx Stratocaster.....08 Gibson Les Paul Push Tone
07 Epiphone Les Paul Ultra II.....................o07 Guild F412...........................O07 Taylor NS74ce
98 Martin D-45VR.....................................097 Guild X-700 Stuart.................O73 Yamaha G-55A
65 Gibson Melody Maker.............................Amps: Bogner Alchemist (Head/212Cab);. Line6 Spider Jam & Micro Spider
..............................................................oKeyboard: 06 Yamaha DGX220

#3 User is offline   glennc 

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 12:01 PM

View PostBigKahune, on 19 November 2010 - 09:33 AM, said:

Remember that the LP Studio models are meant to be an inexpensive version of the LP STD.

The finish color rubbing off has come on the forum before in regards to the Faded models. There's a very thin lacquer coat that wears through quickly. Don't wear light colors.

The pots, switches and tuners is another way Gibson cuts the cost of the Studios - as well as, no binding and no headstock inlays. The Studio 50s Tribute brought a number of posts about the 3-way switch not functioning properly.

And the nut - this has been a problem area for Gibson over the last few years, along with some questionable setups (not only on Studios). You hit on the problem with the D and G strings angling - the nut slots aren't deep enough - as the top on the nut slopes back toward the headstock, the strings aren't setting down in that part of the slot, so the angle. Many have a setup done right after to purchase, and sometimes a nut is too bad and must be replaced. I've got a set of nut files for 10s just to deal with the bad nuts.

Sorry the news isn't better. The Studio is a great guitar for the money. Hope things work out for you. B)


Hello BigKahune,
Well I must say I am disappointed. I expected it to retain the Gibson quality that I have become used to and just be missing the fancy features Except for the fact that the epiphones are made in China, they seem to be much better made and I won't buy one. Is there any nitrocellulose spray can finish that I might use to build up a thicker coat? I checked and Gibson wants almost a thousand dollars to spray the guitar with clear cote and give it a gloss and thicker finish. I have other guitars and am seriously wondering if it is worth having almost $800 tied up in this example of a guitar. I may just return it and get my money back.
I appreciate your time and the knowledge. I wish I had done more research into the various issues of this model prior to purchasing it.
Thanks Sir.
glennc

#4 User is online   BigKahune 

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 02:44 PM

View Postglennc, on 19 November 2010 - 12:01 PM, said:

... Is there any nitrocellulose spray can finish that I might use to build up a thicker coat? ...


Yes, you can get it at Stew-Mac - http://www.stewmac.c...ar_Lacquer.html

As well as some other places.
13 Gibson CS Advanced Jumbo R/Spruce..O12 Gibson Southern Jumbo TV....O11 RainSong JM-3000 12
11 Martin 000-15M Elderly LE....................O10 Gibson ES-359......................o10 Rickenbacker 360/12
09 Jackson PC-1.....................................O09 Fender 52 Telecaster AVS..ooO08 Gibson SJ-200 (Colosi S/P)
08 Gibson Robot SG LTD........................oO08 Fender Am/Dlx Stratocaster.....08 Gibson Les Paul Push Tone
07 Epiphone Les Paul Ultra II.....................o07 Guild F412...........................O07 Taylor NS74ce
98 Martin D-45VR.....................................097 Guild X-700 Stuart.................O73 Yamaha G-55A
65 Gibson Melody Maker.............................Amps: Bogner Alchemist (Head/212Cab);. Line6 Spider Jam & Micro Spider
..............................................................oKeyboard: 06 Yamaha DGX220

#5 User is offline   glennc 

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Posted 19 November 2010 - 10:12 PM

View PostBigKahune, on 19 November 2010 - 02:44 PM, said:

Yes, you can get it at Stew-Mac - http://www.stewmac.c...ar_Lacquer.html

As well as some other places.


Thanks BigKahune,
That spray may be a good idea. Is there anywhere you might know of on how to apply it properly, curing, buffing and such? I can get a new nut made, the Burstbucker Pros sound pretty good and so far the pots and switches work. I'm on the razor's edge on just returning it and getting a Korean made PRS or a Mexican made Fender. But my heart yells blasphemy! I wish there was a luthier in my area or close enough to send it off to to do the spraying. Is there a current list of luthiers and their contact numbers?
glennc

#6 User is online   BigKahune 

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Posted 20 November 2010 - 07:15 AM

View Postglennc, on 19 November 2010 - 10:12 PM, said:

... Is there anywhere you might know of on how to apply it properly, curing, buffing and such? ...


Once again - StewMac info/instructions -

Simple (like what you want, using your finish as a basecoat) - http://www.stewmac.c...nts/i-3881.html

From scratch - http://www.stewmac.c...ocellulose.html
13 Gibson CS Advanced Jumbo R/Spruce..O12 Gibson Southern Jumbo TV....O11 RainSong JM-3000 12
11 Martin 000-15M Elderly LE....................O10 Gibson ES-359......................o10 Rickenbacker 360/12
09 Jackson PC-1.....................................O09 Fender 52 Telecaster AVS..ooO08 Gibson SJ-200 (Colosi S/P)
08 Gibson Robot SG LTD........................oO08 Fender Am/Dlx Stratocaster.....08 Gibson Les Paul Push Tone
07 Epiphone Les Paul Ultra II.....................o07 Guild F412...........................O07 Taylor NS74ce
98 Martin D-45VR.....................................097 Guild X-700 Stuart.................O73 Yamaha G-55A
65 Gibson Melody Maker.............................Amps: Bogner Alchemist (Head/212Cab);. Line6 Spider Jam & Micro Spider
..............................................................oKeyboard: 06 Yamaha DGX220

#7 User is offline   glennc 

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Posted 20 November 2010 - 12:36 PM

View PostBigKahune, on 20 November 2010 - 07:15 AM, said:

Once again - StewMac info/instructions -

Simple (like what you want, using your finish as a basecoat) - http://www.stewmac.c...nts/i-3881.html

From scratch - http://www.stewmac.c...ocellulose.html


Thanks again. That is a good basic procedure. It seems doable ?!!?!???! Going to be a lot of taping and disassembly. Going to ponder on it.
Apreciate it.
glennc

#8 User is offline   happydog 

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Posted 23 November 2010 - 11:26 PM

View Postglennc, on 20 November 2010 - 12:36 PM, said:

Thanks again. That is a good basic procedure. It seems doable ?!!?!???! Going to be a lot of taping and disassembly. Going to ponder on it.
Apreciate it.
glennc


If you don't like the guitar, get rid of it now. If you do anything to it, it'll lose value automatically. It doesn't sound like you're happy with it, nor does it sound like you are going to be any time in the future without a lot of expensive improvements and mods. I say send it back.

#9 User is offline   glennc 

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Posted 24 November 2010 - 02:09 AM

View Posthappydog, on 23 November 2010 - 11:26 PM, said:

If you don't like the guitar, get rid of it now. If you do anything to it, it'll lose value automatically. It doesn't sound like you're happy with it, nor does it sound like you are going to be any time in the future without a lot of expensive improvements and mods. I say send it back.


Hello happydog,
Good, sound advice. But the winds of fortune have taken a turn and I dinged the guitar front, thus making it unable to return. I have been playing it and now that there is sufficient coating on the neck, I like the way it plays and sounds. So I'll get used to it. I did though write a letter to Gibson expressing my thoughts on the route they took on the faded finish and my issues with it.
Thanks for the clear advice.
glennc

#10 User is offline   Yaff 

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Posted 24 November 2010 - 06:58 AM

I am a bit taken back by the comments regarding the this Guitar:

- Regarding the finish, you should not be using any polish or sprays. Its design to have a natural look and should not be polished. A quick dust off every so often is all it should require.

- Regarding the components, I understand your concern, but if it sound great and is reliable, that should be what matters. Although Gibson need to keep on top of costs, they also need to match the components with the Guitar. For example, the BB Pro`s are used, instead of the usual Studio pickups, to get the right tone out of the all mahogany construction. Any issue there should be identified when trying, ideally before you buy

- Regarding the Nut, most Gibson require some work, not just the Studio`s. That is a pain, but as most budget for a pro setup when buying a new guitar, not a major problem.

In my opinion, the Studio Faded are as good quality as any other Gibson USA LP and represent fantastic value. Yes, the wood, finish and components on a Standard may be higher, but when you consider the most important parts (tone & playability), the difference is minimal.

Although I recently sold my Studio Faded (to finance a new amp), it was a pleasure to own and play. However, as I also had a 08 Standard, the versatility a second amp offered was much greater then having 2 Les Paul's.

As some one ells suggested, if your not happy with it, sell it. I am sure someone would be frilled to have it. Not sure your location, but I had people knocking at my door to buy my one at 500 + only a few weeks ago. At a third of the cost of a Standard, they are a great buy

Hope it works out for you.

#11 User is offline   glennc 

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Posted 24 November 2010 - 09:54 AM

View PostYaff, on 24 November 2010 - 06:58 AM, said:

I am a bit taken back by the comments regarding the this Guitar:

- Regarding the finish, you should not be using any polish or sprays. Its design to have a natural look and should not be polished. A quick dust off every so often is all it should require.

- Regarding the components, I understand your concern, but if it sound great and is reliable, that should be what matters. Although Gibson need to keep on top of costs, they also need to match the components with the Guitar. For example, the BB Pro`s are used, instead of the usual Studio pickups, to get the right tone out of the all mahogany construction. Any issue there should be identified when trying, ideally before you buy

- Regarding the Nut, most Gibson require some work, not just the Studio`s. That is a pain, but as most budget for a pro setup when buying a new guitar, not a major problem.

In my opinion, the Studio Faded are as good quality as any other Gibson USA LP and represent fantastic value. Yes, the wood, finish and components on a Standard may be higher, but when you consider the most important parts (tone & playability), the difference is minimal.

Although I recently sold my Studio Faded (to finance a new amp), it was a pleasure to own and play. However, as I also had a 08 Standard, the versatility a second amp offered was much greater then having 2 Les Paul's.

As some one ells suggested, if your not happy with it, sell it. I am sure someone would be frilled to have it. Not sure your location, but I had people knocking at my door to buy my one at £500 + only a few weeks ago. At a third of the cost of a Standard, they are a great buy

Hope it works out for you.


Howdy Yaff,
I am in agreement on most of your points of information. The items that I am not are one: The faded finish IMO has too thin of a lacquer finish. I have not read anywhere or was advised by anyone but you that the guitar is not made to be polished, just dusted off. I have found that by polishing it I have increased the slickness of the neck significantly. I have protected a guitar that costs $800 US and is sufficiently inferior in build and finish quality as to make me long for the finish of a $400 Epiphone or a $600 PRS Korina. The concept that the inferior quality is acceptable I disagree. Two: By quality I am specifically speaking of the wood work of the neck, body and the fretboard. This thin finish makes it very easily dinged and nicked to the wood, rather than just leaving a mar on the finish. For $800 this to me is unacceptable. I was lucky in getting one that did not show the boards, especially in the curves of the body. Happy about that. Glue seeping out around the neck and not even wiped off, let alone cleaned before finishing. The quitar nut is another quality problem. This is a perception of Gibson universal quality is that which I have had to change, but when I buy a Gibson I expected it made in the US with US manufactured parts. At least a warning would have been nice.
So in essence I agree with it being a lower price point and I was specifically looking for a 50's style neck which in this case the individual that sanded it managed to keep it quite nicely, as opposed to other faded finish guitars I've seen. Lastly the set-up was off and I will have to get that fixed when I replace the nut. An Epiphone with Gibson pickups and CTS pots and tuners along with a set-up would easily surpass the IMHO the value of this guitar. I saw the Epiphone version of this guitar and it had a matt finish of a much thicker layer of lacquer.
I like the sound, playability but not the price. I would have happily accepted the flaws mentioned if the guitar was labeled to be using foreign manufactured parts and sold for $600. They could have even kept the gig bag.
If Gibson had added a slight bit more quality in the construction and the finish (I like the natural look)just needs more nitrocellulose lacquer layers, again IMO, it would be very very good example of American quality and a better lasting guitar.
Since I dinged it, I now own it. BTW the exposed and unsanded end grains of the added pieces to the headstock have accepted the polish and hardened. With a bit of emory cloth I managed to get them as smooth as the neck. Sharp corners are now rounded in the lacquer, leaving the wood finish untouched. I need to let it dry and put on several more coats of Gibson Spray polish and I believe I will have a superior finish than the factory's. I sure do wish I had more money, but this guitar I think will do well for a long time.
Thanks for the good wishes.
glennc

#12 User is offline   Yaff 

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Posted 24 November 2010 - 05:25 PM

I understand where you are coming from. When I purchased my Studio, the guy in the shop told me it was the same as the Standard, except for the finish and binding! They even had it described on the there web site as having a Maple top!

Although I could have made an issue out of it, as she played and felt so good, I was not going to take it back. I think my one was an excellent example, only requisitioner minimal work during the pro setup and the workmanship (at least what I could see) was fist class. The finishing touch for me was removing the pickgard and adding reflectors. In my opinion, this is how Gibson should have designed it:

Posted Image

It looks like we both made the mistake of doing our research after buying the guitar!

Life is too short to get stressed. In my opinion, learn from our mistakes and don`t beat ourself up over decisions we made. Make the most of what we have and enjoy the ride [biggrin]

#13 User is offline   glennc 

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Posted 24 November 2010 - 09:44 PM

View PostYaff, on 24 November 2010 - 05:25 PM, said:

I understand where you are coming from. When I purchased my Studio, the guy in the shop told me it was the same as the Standard, except for the finish and binding! They even had it described on the there web site as having a Maple top!

Although I could have made an issue out of it, as she played and felt so good, I was not going to take it back. I think my one was an excellent example, only requisitioner minimal work during the pro setup and the workmanship (at least what I could see) was fist class. The finishing touch for me was removing the pickgard and adding reflectors. In my opinion, this is how Gibson should have designed it:

Posted Image

It looks like we both made the mistake of doing our research after buying the guitar!

Life is too short to get stressed. In my opinion, learn from our mistakes and don`t beat ourself up over decisions we made. Make the most of what we have and enjoy the ride [biggrin]


Hey Yaff,
You of course have hit the nail on the head, don't worry, be happy. Since I have been playing the guitar I am enjoying it much more. I am sure with several more coats of Polish and it will be fine. I also found on without very numerous problems. Have just noticed that on several frets the finger board has been rounded from the side to the flat, exposing a lot of fretwire and on the other side the frets are not flush. Minor problems, I think should have been dealt with at the factory, but Gibson said a local Warranty Service Center could handle the repair.
On firearm dings you put a moisten cloth over the dent and then heat it with a steam iron, carefully. This is supposed to cause the grain to swell and partially pop out the dent. Anyone heard of this technique on guitars. I need a good South Florida luthier, not just a repairman.
Thanks for the good advice.
Take Care,
glennc

BTW the reflector knobs and no pickguard do enhance the beautiful color and gorgeous lines of a Les Paul, congratulations on a good find and good taste.

#14 User is offline   glennc 

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Posted 26 November 2010 - 04:09 PM

Hope all had a Happy Thanksgiving. I have an update on my Les Paul Studio Faded. I took it to the local Gibson Warranty Shop and dropped it off for the tech who was out today. I closely examined the guitar to make sure all issues I find could be taken care of at one time. Besides the nut, and bad set-up which caused the Low E to buzz constantly, I found some disturbing items that I hope will be taken care of. The High E side of the fretboard had sanding grooves almost the whole length and about 5 frets sticking out. It also has I don't know what but it looks like a crack about 2 1/2" long parallel to the fretboard, along the lower edge of the fretboard right above the neck and body joint. This crack or maybe a gouge was the same on the Low E side. On this side the edges of top and sides had been sanded and rounded so that from the nut to the 10th fret, looking down, it appears as if the edge was scalloped, leaving the fret and a bump of wood it is attached to sticking out. Weird. One of the screws to hold the tuners in is stripped. I didn't mention the glue coming out of the neck to body joint, although maybe I should. Gibson Customer Service advised that the Warranty Center was able to handle the repairs and if not they'll issue a return shipping receipt. Told the people to have him call me. Fingers crossed.
Probably won't know until the middle of next week. So out comes the 347.
Take Care All.
glennc

#15 User is offline   Eracer_Team 

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Posted 27 November 2010 - 07:38 PM

GlennC.. sorry to hear your guitar has even more problems.. I hope the authorized center sends it back to Gibson for you...



View PostYaff, on 24 November 2010 - 05:25 PM, said:

I understand where you are coming from. When I purchased my Studio, the guy in the shop told me it was the same as the Standard, except for the finish and binding! They even had it described on the there web site as having a Maple top!


Yaff you are obviously talking about the MF web site...
Here is the description of the Gibson Les Paul studio right from their web site.

Quote

The arrival of the Gibson Les Paul Studio Electric Guitar in 1983 offered guitarists all the essential elements of a Les Paul Standard, including a carved top and humbucking pickups. Its simple yet elegant design quickly helped it become the most popular model in the Les Paul Series. Cutting-yet-rich tone—the hallmark of the Les Paul—pours out of the 490R and 498T Alnico II magnet humbucker pickups, which are mounted on a carved maple top with a mahogany back.
The faded finish models are equipped with BurstBucker Pro pickups and a mahogany top.
The Les Paul Studio Electric Guitar includes a Gibson hardshell case (Faded and satin finish models come with a gig bag) and a limited lifetime warranty.



#16 User is offline   glennc 

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Posted 27 November 2010 - 09:19 PM

View PostEracer_Team, on 27 November 2010 - 07:38 PM, said:

GlennC.. sorry to hear your guitar has even more problems.. I hope the authorized center sends it back to Gibson for you...





Yaff you are obviously talking about the MF web site...
Here is the description of the Gibson Les Paul studio right from their web site.


Howdy Eracer_Team,
I am actually quite disheartened at the moment. To me the appropriate course of action would be to replace the fingerboard with a good one. I don't know the "within specifications" on these lower priced guitars. I wish it didn't have the problems that caused me to fully examine it. I called Gibson today and asked them if I disagree with the necessary repairs and finishing what would be the next step. Happily they advised me to contact them and they would get it shipped back to the factory. I too hope that the guitar repairman that is also their Warranty Representative does ship it back if he can't or won't fix the specific issues I have with it.
Time will tell. I've owned Gibsons all my life and have no reason to want to change. Thanks
glennc

#17 User is offline   ChanMan 

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 10:03 AM

I have an axiom I live by....

Buyers remorse is best overcome by buyer beware.


Frankly, I find much of interest in this tale of woe.


Good luck man, but I doubt they'll make you happy. Even if they send it back to Gibson and send you a brand spanking new one that is just perfect, you're still gonna get a Faded Studio in return, and that does not sound at all like the guitar you actually want.


I urge you to sell it and get what it is you really want. Life is too short for anything less.
oxxx{============================>


ChanMan


 zigzag, on 27 April 2011 - 08:44 AM, said:

"Soul is born, blues is earned."

#18 User is offline   glennc 

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 10:23 AM

View PostChanMan, on 28 November 2010 - 10:03 AM, said:

I have an axiom I live by....

Buyers remorse is best overcome by buyer beware.


Frankly, I find much of interest in this tale of woe.


Good luck man, but I doubt they'll make you happy. Even if they send it back to Gibson and send you a brand spanking new one that is just perfect, you're still gonna get a Faded Studio in return, and that does not sound at all like the guitar you actually want.


I urge you to sell it and get what it is you really want. Life is too short for anything less.


Howdy ChanMan,
I actually have come to like it more as what it is, a Low priced Gibson. The neck and the pickups are great. If they will take care of my issues, I will be a happy camper. I of course would rather sell it and get a 58 VOS or glossy with a flamed top, but that ain't going to happen. As of the current situation, I would prefer to buy American only. This one is almost that. I know all manufacturers have a less than proper quality item slip by, I just hope they remedy the situation. I would take a new one in red, but I would prefer to see it first, fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. I have the name of the inspector. I wouldn't mind talking to him.
BTW if you look at the first picture of the first post in this thread and look at the first and second frets you can see the problem, that they appear to be on bumps sticking out past the sides of the fretboard. This continues down to about the 10th fret and some are much worse. I didn't notice it on the Low E string side also. Don't worry, be happy.
Thanks for your point of view, it makes sense if I had more money. I just want Gibson Quality on my guitar, I understand the use of presumably cheaper electrical components and no binding, etc. and have no problem with those. Shoot I can change them out. With the Gibson Spray polish, it takes care of the finish issue, since Gibson wants $900 to spray a couple more coats of lacquer on it and give it a true gloss finish. Not necessary.

To all, it was mentioned in the thread that the Burstbucker Pros were used to compensate for the mahogany top. Would this seriously impair the sound if I changed them out to 57 Classic and Classic Plus? I'll put the Burstbuckers in the Epiphone eventually.
Thanks
glennc

#19 User is offline   ChanMan 

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 11:00 AM

Yeah... Those bumps were part of the interesting things... that crack you mentioned being another.


I'm not sure "impair" is the word I'd use for replacing the BB's with '57s.

"Improve" seems more fitting, but I am fairly in love with the '57 Classics :).


Pick up one of these and you'll be in tall cotton

http://accessories.m...-Kit?sku=420390


Good luck man!
oxxx{============================>


ChanMan


 zigzag, on 27 April 2011 - 08:44 AM, said:

"Soul is born, blues is earned."

#20 User is offline   glennc 

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Posted 28 November 2010 - 12:48 PM

View PostChanMan, on 28 November 2010 - 11:00 AM, said:

Yeah... Those bumps were part of the interesting things... that crack you mentioned being another.


I'm not sure "impair" is the word I'd use for replacing the BB's with '57s.

"Improve" seems more fitting, but I am fairly in love with the '57 Classics :).


Pick up one of these and you'll be in tall cotton

http://accessories.m...-Kit?sku=420390


Good luck man!


Hey there Chanman,
That is why I put out that question. To me nothing sounds like 57 Classics. If it didn't cost so much I'd put a pair of split 57's in my ES-347 which has coil tapping. May I say you have good taste in pickups! The crack may just be a deep gouge mark but nonetheless, it requires attention. I bookmarked that page for my next purchase, thanks for the link.
Also thanks for the luck, I am hoping I don't need it.
Take care
glennc

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