tweed1 Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 OK, I've tried this once before with mixed results. I was downsizing my collection and decided that selling a Gibson MelodyMaker (P90) and an acoustic guitar would accomplish the reduction if I got a Casino. Don't get me wrong, I love the Casino and would never part with it. But it only got close to what I wanted to do. The Casino can't keep up when I play with other acoutic guys. So lately, I've been checking out IB Texans, 160e's, etc. An acoustic with a pick up. In other words (actually, my wife's words) looking for an excuse to buy another guitar. But, I've also been thinking about something with humbuckers, too, since I don't have one of those anymore, either. How does the ES-175 do unplugged? I've seen a few more up on ebay lately and they're right in my price range. Is this just another comprimise guitar that gets me 80% there, or are these loud enough unplugged to keep up? Not a lead guy, more rythum stuff. Like the look, love hollow and semi-hollow bodies. A little input here. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianh Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 How does the ES-175 do unplugged? I've seen a few more up on ebay lately and they're right in my price range. Is this just another comprimise guitar that gets me 80% there, or are these loud enough unplugged to keep up? Not a lead guy, more rythum stuff. 70-80% is about right. No way it will keep up unplugged with a dreadnought acoustic or even an acoustic parlor guitar. You have three things working against it - laminated top and back, big pickups set into the top, and F-holes instead of a large sound hole. Even a relatively inexpensive acoustic has a solid (usually spruce) top, probably a solid back, no set-in pickups to deaden resonance, and of course a big honkin' sound hole to project through. However, a true full hollobody jazz guitar like the Epi Emperor or Zephyr Regent might get you closer. Those are F-hole, laminated top guits, but at least the pickup is a floater, so not impeding resonance as much. A solid carved-top full hollow would be even better, but they are pricey, typically start around $1,500 used. In the end though, a real acoustic is the only way to go IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enmitygauged Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 OK, I've tried this once before with mixed results. I was downsizing my collection and decided that selling a Gibson MelodyMaker (P90) and an acoustic guitar would accomplish the reduction if I got a Casino. Don't get me wrong, I love the Casino and would never part with it. But it only got close to what I wanted to do. The Casino can't keep up when I play with other acoutic guys. So lately, I've been checking out IB Texans, 160e's, etc. An acoustic with a pick up. In other words (actually, my wife's words) looking for an excuse to buy another guitar. But, I've also been thinking about something with humbuckers, too, since I don't have one of those anymore, either. How does the ES-175 do unplugged? I've seen a few more up on ebay lately and they're right in my price range. Is this just another comprimise guitar that gets me 80% there, or are these loud enough unplugged to keep up? Not a lead guy, more rythum stuff. Like the look, love hollow and semi-hollow bodies. A little input here. Thanks. I tried for years in vain to get what youre looking for I ended up with a Taylor T5 ok it has no sound unplugged but through an acoustic amp its as clean as most mid range to high range Dread naughts. It was only the Gibson Songwriter that made me get rid of it. It was a great guitar to take to a gig and not have to take three guitars. Awesome single coil , double humbuckers in the neck and brigde postion and taylor peizo for acoustic. The downside was for acoustic stuff I always needed an amp and the only amp I had was a 100watt Marshall it just got too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fringe Lunatic Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 Casinos, 175s, Dots, etc. are called "acoustic-electric", but they are truly electric guitars, not meant for nor useful as an acoustic instrument. Even the smaller-bodied A/Es, like many Ovations, are not particularly good unamplified, being primarily designed to be amplified. A "true" acoustic-electric, like a 160E is much more of a dual-purpose guitar, and can serve usefully as either type. Also keep in mind that any acoustic can either use a soundhole pickup, or be retrofitted with an undersaddle piezo pickup system. Bottom line is: an electric hollowbody archtop will not do what you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tweed1 Posted January 6, 2011 Author Share Posted January 6, 2011 Ya, kinda what I was thinking. The problem I have with trying acoustics is despite living near a fairly large city (Seattle), nobody carries the guitars that I'm interested in. So, I'm looking outside the box at options. It's hard for me to justify owning 6 guitars anymore. Any time I can "comprimise", it helps with selling it to the wife. Looks like I'm back to a Texan or something. Thanks everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fringe Lunatic Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 What guitars are you interested in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damian Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 70-80% is about right. No way it will keep up unplugged with a dreadnought acoustic or even an acoustic parlor guitar. You have three things working against it - laminated top and back, big pickups set into the top, and F-holes instead of a large sound hole. Even a relatively inexpensive acoustic has a solid (usually spruce) top, probably a solid back, no set-in pickups to deaden resonance, and of course a big honkin' sound hole to project through. However, a true full hollobody jazz guitar like the Epi Emperor or Zephyr Regent might get you closer. Those are F-hole, laminated top guits, but at least the pickup is a floater, so not impeding resonance as much. A solid carved-top full hollow would be even better, but they are pricey, typically start around $1,500 used. In the end though, a real acoustic is the only way to go IMHO. I concur...some comprimises do not work...And only a quality acoustic is a quality acoustic.....I do not understand the concept of downsizing a guitar collection, so I can't offer advice there.. Many guitars are very versitile, but only a Tele is a Tele, Gibby LP a Gibby LP, Martin acoustic a Martin, etc....Epi makes some very nice high end acoustics; just a thought....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tweed1 Posted January 6, 2011 Author Share Posted January 6, 2011 What guitars are you interested in? Having recently returned to the Epi fold, I've been looking at the IB Texan, the JL-160e and several other Epi A/Es. The last reasonable acoustics that I had (a matching 6 and 12 string) were Yamahas, but I sold them both for a Rickenbacker 360-12 (another comprimise?, anyone see a pattern here?). I've played some great Taylors and a nice Seagull or two, but I seem to like the slope shoulder sound. Besides, I've been accused of slowly shifting over to Beatles oriented guitars by my friends and the Texan and 160e seem to fit that pattern, as unintentional as it may be. With a daughter and a wife in college, I have to keep my budget in the $300-400 range, especially since I play just for fun now. The days of buying a Gibson or Martin acoustic are gone for now. I could buy one, but I'd have to sell the RIC and/or the Casino and I'm not ready to do that yet. But unlike a solid body or even semi hollow body guitar that I would (and have)taken a chance on buying unplayed, I hestiate to the same with an acoustic as most that I have had a chance to try vary so much, even the same model. I posed the request for opinions over on the acoustic forum, but responses are very slow and far between. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fringe Lunatic Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 The Seagulls are slope-shouldered. I had a S6 a while back and thought it was excellent, but sold it because my small hands weren't comfortable with the wide (1.8" nut) neck. I replaced it with an Art & Lutherie dread (not sloped), which is also a Godin, but with a 1.72" nut width. Sounds great by itself or with my Dean Markley pickup. There are a couple of Seagull slim models with the 1.72" neck, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tweed1 Posted January 6, 2011 Author Share Posted January 6, 2011 Some of the S6, what are called original style, are sloped. And those I liked. Most of what I can find around here are what must be a newer style, more conventional shape. I keep an eye out for an original, in good shape and it's on my short list. I had a Yamaha sycamore acoustic about 16 years ago that sounded great, but the newer ones don't compare. I'll know when the right one comes along. Patience, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyGibson Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 I was out at lunch yesterday and stopped in a store that just started carrying Epiphones. Pretty nice selection too. They had an es175 too. It's a nice guitar. I played it unplugged to see what it sounded like. My Casino is louder and brighter than it was unplugged. Definitely, the ES175 needs to be plugged in. It will not compromise. When you're under the one in/one out rule, you really have to think about what you want. I'm in the same boat, but I only have three to rotate if I decide I want a different sound or feel. Or heck, even color. I've talked myself out of more guitars this last year too becaus of that. I was up to 5 a couple years ago and did make the trades to end up with my 3: EJ200, Casino, Les Paul. Each one is so different, that I wouldn't want to trade one out. It's a fun problem :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaSTuS Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 It's a fun problem :lol: Think so, sounds like all sorts of hell to me, makes me so happy that I was too selfish to have never married. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L5Larry Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 There is one thing about full body f-hole archtop guitars that I think has been lost, misinterpreted, or not understood in this discussion. An archtop guitar is designed to PROJECT, not be loud to the player. You do not hear the full magnitude of the sound unless you are sitting across the room from one. These guitars were originally designed for orchestra use to replace the tenor banjo in "big bands", and be heard within a horn section. An acoustic 4" archtop guitar is way louder to the listener at say 20-50 feet than a flat top round hole, or thinline semi. You can not judge the volume or properties of any acoustic guitar while playing it, you must be out front listening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianh Posted January 6, 2011 Share Posted January 6, 2011 The Casino can't keep up when I play with other acoutic guys. L5, with all due respect to you and to the properties of archtops (I have several including two full-hollow deep type), I think Tweed's question was about playing with other acoustic players in duet jam sessions and/or small settings. Please correct me if I am mistaken - that's how I interpreted the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tweed1 Posted January 6, 2011 Author Share Posted January 6, 2011 L5, with all due respect to you and to the properties of archtops (I have several including two full-hollow deep type), I think Tweed's question was about playing with other acoustic players in duet jam sessions and/or small settings. Please correct me if I am mistaken - that's how I interpreted the question. That is correct. I realize that an archtop will not keep up with a dreadnaught or jumbo in close quarter combat. The question is, would it be close enough in volume to sacrifice a little volume for the flexibilty of having something with humbuckers too? I'm probably asking for something that's difficult to obtain. I'll just keep searching for a reasonably priced acoustic/electric and wait until I tire of my strat to get something with humbuckers. Thank all, for the input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuiblue Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 70-80% is about right. No way it will keep up unplugged with a dreadnought acoustic or even an acoustic parlor guitar. You have three things working against it - laminated top and back, big pickups set into the top, and F-holes instead of a large sound hole. Even a relatively inexpensive acoustic has a solid (usually spruce) top, probably a solid back, no set-in pickups to deaden resonance, and of course a big honkin' sound hole to project through. However, a true full hollobody jazz guitar like the Epi Emperor or Zephyr Regent might get you closer. Those are F-hole, laminated top guits, but at least the pickup is a floater, so not impeding resonance as much. A solid carved-top full hollow would be even better, but they are pricey, typically start around $1,500 used. In the end though, a real acoustic is the only way to go IMHO. Coming in after the door has been shut again.... Brian, the Zephyr Regent has a body attached humbucker, and being that it is a mahogany back and sides, it does project much more acoustically than the Emperor Regent with it's floating pup. I agree with the general consensus that a flattop acoustic is going to have more punch sound-wise, but if compromise is something your looking for, acoustic qualities with a humbucker, then check out used Zephyr Regents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fringe Lunatic Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 I'm finding it rather ludicrous to consider any electric guitar for playing acoustically, except for personal practice use. The hollowbody electrics resemble their acoustic archtop counterparts in appearance only, and have thick, laminated tops that are barely resonant compared to an acoustic guitar, and are all but useless as an acoustic instrument. Think about it: have you ever seen a performance where an electric archtop was played acoustically? The entire idea is silly. There are obvious reasons why electrified flat top acoustic guitars are so popular, although the most realistic, organic sound of one in recording or performance will be achieved with a microphone, as piezo and magnetic pickups do tend to make them sound rather like their electric counterparts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amx05462 Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 go try a gretsch 5120. f holes and enough body to resinate and this has two humbuckers for the amp. sounds good to me unplugged Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tuiblue Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Fringe- I think Tweed recognized the issue right from the start, the idea was can both be had, with some sacrifice. Of course an archtop won't stand up to an acoustic flat-top on it's own, but (at least the way I read the question) can some version of an archtop cover both bases. In the end it's up to him how much sacrifice or compromise is acceptable. Tweed: This is an Epiphone Zephyr unplugged, not the greatest playing, this video was for something else originally. This is taken with a simple Kodak easyshare digital camera with a tiny onboard mic. I'm about 6 feet away. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbEI0vxQoP0 This is the Zephyr plugged in. Same camera, same setup. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOQ4rbPOhNU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fringe Lunatic Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 Jeff: You should have recorded a third spot with an acoustic, using the same setup. Can you do that? I realize that the OP seems to agree that an acoustic is prolly what he needs, but some later comments continued to push the electric-as-acoustic theme, which makes no sense to me. Being primarily an acoustic player, I may have a different take than many members here who are electric players, many not even owning an acoustic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tweed1 Posted January 7, 2011 Author Share Posted January 7, 2011 The original purpose of my question about the viability of an electrified archtop as a dual purpose guitar, both plugged in and unplugged. I realize that as an acoustic, it's not the ultimate situation, but in my present day revenue-neutral mode, the thought did occur to me. The Casino was, to a certain extent, my first attempt at this. Playing alone, it's great and I'm so happy with it overall, I'd wouldn't consider selling it at this time. But, now that I've read the input and thought a little more about it, I'm going to concentrate on an acoustic, with possibly a pick up. What makes this a little more difficult is that despite Seattle being the 14th largest market, the choice of guitars around here sucks. I can't find anyone that has a new, or used, IB Texan or JL-160e. After Fringe's comment reminded me about the slope should (original) Seagull S6, I looked around again. But all I can find is the newer version with the square shoulders. I can only guess that this means one of two things, there aren't enough sales of these to justify somebody keeping them in stock or I'm looking for the guitars that a lot of others want and they sell out fast. I'll go for something with humbuckers down the road, when money frees up a little or I decide to sell my last solid body and go all hollow. Thanks again everybody for your input. I love the fact that the opinions were so varied on this question. I was hoping that would be the case. Stay tuned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fringe Lunatic Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 Tweed, the Godin line is simply not very popular, and that's why they're not stocked in many stores. I got my A & L dread at a very good price because my local store decided to drop the line due to poor sales. It's a shame because these are very good acoustics. I'm afraid that the non-blingy looks, and the Seagull headstock, which is considered fugly by a lot of folks, are a couple of reasons for the lack of popularity. I think your decision to get an acoustic is one you won't regret. BTW, I looked at the Seagull website, and all I saw was slopes. The other Godin dreads (A & L, Norman, Simon & Patrick) are square-shouldered. So, I'm wondering what you saw. In any case, good luck choosing your acoustic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Buffalo Posted January 9, 2011 Share Posted January 9, 2011 Your best option (if money is no option) is a Gibson L7 with a floating pickup added. These 5th Avenues sound pretty good plugged & unplugged, but they don't come with humbuckers, and it won't out-perform a Martin D-28, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tweed1 Posted January 9, 2011 Author Share Posted January 9, 2011 Tweed, the Godin line is simply not very popular, and that's why they're not stocked in many stores. I got my A & L dread at a very good price because my local store decided to drop the line due to poor sales. It's a shame because these are very good acoustics. I'm afraid that the non-blingy looks, and the Seagull headstock, which is considered fugly by a lot of folks, are a couple of reasons for the lack of popularity. I think your decision to get an acoustic is one you won't regret. BTW, I looked at the Seagull website, and all I saw was slopes. The other Godin dreads (A & L, Norman, Simon & Patrick) are square-shouldered. So, I'm wondering what you saw. In any case, good luck choosing your acoustic! Just to verify that what I saw at the store wasn't a fluke, I typed Seagull S6 in on an eBay search. A quarter of the results were sloped and 3/4 were square. The squares shown were what I saw. The sloped shoulders were referred to as original in the search. Not sure what that means, like first generation? I can understand the Seagull headstock thing, not very traditional, but still a good sounding guitar. I would have to get a very good deal on an Epi EJ-2-- to buy one, for instance. Although they get rave reviews, I can't stand the moustache bridge. I know, pretty shallow. Speaking of nontraditional, I'll dig up and post a picture of an acoustic I bought ,tried and sold several ago. Pretty wacky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tweed1 Posted January 9, 2011 Author Share Posted January 9, 2011 Here's an example of the only time I've bought an acoustic, unplayed and off the internet. Good build on it, except the bridge and nut were so far off, I had to pay another $225 to get it fixed and playable. Then came the problem of how to electrify it. I looked at piezo, single coil, P-90, floating humbucker (which had I kept it, would have been the eventual choice I think). This guitar was surprisingly loud and would keep up with any conventional acoustic, which is why I was considering an f-holed archtop. A real conversation starter and being serial #002, not something you'd see everyday. Somebody offered me more money for it than I had into it, so off it went. You want to talk about fugly headstocks, this one's garish beyond belief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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