RaSTuS Posted March 12, 2011 Share Posted March 12, 2011 If it's on a 2-ply (or more) pickguard they could simply engrave it like TRCs are engraved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karine_plays Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 I have a comment abount Epis commitment to quality. One area where Epiphone (or I guess Gibson) has been very strong in their commitment to quality has been their continuous effort to identify counterfeit guitars and remove them from the market. Removing counterfits from the market is part of the 'commitment to quality'. This is important to me because, as I mentioned in another thread, counterfeit guitars amount to a loss of sales. Its almost the same as shoplifting. And a lot of companies will build this loss into their pricing. I dont like paying for other peoples fake guitars, so if I see something, I will say something. Epiphone has good information on their website about how to determine what is a counterfeit and what to do if you suspect someone is selling bogus guitars; however, there seems to be a large disconnect between the corporate website/customer service and the Epiphone forum. In my opinion, the forum moderators are not present enough to deal with threads featuring bogus Epiphones in a timely manner, and when they do arrive on scene, they seem to be more interested in getting involved with personal squabbles and forum politics. You really cant allow yourself to be distracted by the clucking hens. When I see these discussion about "the Epi's produced in x-factory or x-country versus the ones produced in y-factory or country", I wonder if we're even comparing Epiphones with Epiphones. Maybe the Chinese Epi's got a bad reputation because half of them are fake? Currently, you have random people coming in at random times and placing their bogus-guitar ads or links right on your front doorstep for all to see. Thats bad enough, but when I see that same ad the next day because it hasnt been deleted, it doesnt exactly inspire confidence that you are doing all you can do to make sure the Epiphone I buy is really an Epiphone. FWIW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSDx Posted March 23, 2011 Share Posted March 23, 2011 ...... it doesn’t exactly inspire confidence that you are doing all you can do to make sure the Epiphone I buy is really an Epiphone. FWIW fwiw ..... there is more than enough info widely available to spot a fake. And this would only apply if buying used, or if buying from a non-legit Epi retailer. If you're buying new, buy from a Epi dealer, and all is well. If buying used, arm yourself with the wealth of info available about spotting fakes. It really ain't rocket science, here... it's no different than buying anything else used , really. Ya pays yer money, ya takes yer chances. I don't buy used or from shady sources, so...it's a moot point for me.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crust Posted March 24, 2011 Author Share Posted March 24, 2011 I agree that pursuing counterfeit guitar dealers/manufactures/distributors is good quality control. Counterfeit and non-licensed guitars and parts are a big problem. Not only guitars, but just about anything that can have "replacement parts" installed are subject to counterfeit parts and sales. Would you consider this forum (or the entire Gibson web site) as "quality ? I'm not really sure how to answer that myself. it seems like this place isn't well moderated. We all kind of "self moderate" I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karine_plays Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 fwiw ..... there is more than enough info widely available to spot a fake. And this would only apply if buying used, or if buying from a non-legit Epi retailer. If you're buying new, buy from a Epi dealer, and all is well. If buying used, arm yourself with the wealth of info available about spotting fakes. It really ain't rocket science, here... it's no different than buying anything else used , really. Ya pays yer money, ya takes yer chances. I don't buy used or from shady sources, so...it's a moot point for me.. Your response would have carried so much more weight without the ":rollseyes:" emoticon ...lol But you definitely make a good point. And I agree that a "well armed" consumer can avoid making a mistake here. But what about someone who is not so well armed? Do they deserve to get ripped off? What do you think their opinion of Epiphone would be if they bought some fake crap and thought it was the real thing? Would they recommend an Epiphone to their friends, or badmouth the quality? If it was the reputation of my product at stake, I'd probably be concerned about those questions. Also, do you think there's a chance Epiphone lets this happen to a certain degree to scare consumers into only using a contracted Epi dealer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaSTuS Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 But what about someone who is not so well armed? Do they deserve to get ripped off? A resounding YES from me, If someone isn't prepared to do a bit of research into such an important purchasing decision then they deserve what they get. Why do I say it's important, because if someone is buying a guitar for themselves, a family member or a loved one or whoever, they should at least learn what size, style, appearance etc. is going to suit the prospective new owner, then given that info, should search out what brands and models fulfil that criteria in their intended price range. Once they have narrowed the possibilities down, then they should investigate which of these offers the best price/performance value by comparing features, quality and final suitability for the intended recipient. This becomes doubly important if the intended recipient is a beginner, almost everyone's (there are always exceptions) common sense tells them that for someone to want and continue to learn something properly, they have to be comfortable and happy in doing so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karine_plays Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 OK so here's your 3-step program for buying a genuine Epiphone guitar for "little Johnny": 1. Learn what size, style, appearance etc. is going to suit little Johnny 2. Search out what brands and models fulfil that criteria in their intended price range. 3. Investigate which of these offers the best price/performance value by comparing features, quality and final suitability for little Johnny. Which of these steps will help "Johnny's mom" make sure she is buying a genuine Epiphone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tweed2 Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 I used to spend a lot of time on the Rickenbacker Forum before I bought my Epi and wandered over here. Rickenbacker runs a tight ship. So much so, that any negative comments on their products, no matter how valid, can quickly get you banished. And if you think that there's squabbling here...... I find this Forum much more relaxed and informal, and I think that's a good thing. As far as the fakes go, I dislike them too. But,from what I've seen, they don't stay up very long, they get outed pretty quickly. I'd rather deal with that than particpate in a heavily regulated forum. All you get there is the company line. I think "open" is a much better learning environment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaSTuS Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 OK so here's your 3-step program for buying a genuine Epiphone guitar for "little Johnny": 1. Learn what size, style, appearance etc. is going to suit little Johnny 2. Search out what brands and models fulfil that criteria in their intended price range. 3. Investigate which of these offers the best price/performance value by comparing features, quality and final suitability for little Johnny. Which of these steps will help "Johnny's mom" make sure she is buying a genuine Epiphone? If after doing that Johnny's mum hasn't worked out where to buy a genuine Epi, or where to ask about such things then she should pop another half a dozen prozac washed down with another huge slug of that cooking sherry she's nursing in her lap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barcham Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 If after doing that Johnny's mum hasn't worked out where to buy a genuine Epi, or where to ask about such things then she should pop another half a dozen prozac washed down with another huge slug of that cooking sherry she's nursing in her lap. Well maybe she can't afford a new one and like many people turns to ebay to find one. So not knowing anything about fakes, she finds a 'new' one at a great price and buys it. Johnny ends up with a guitar that's a piece or garbage, sounds like crap and doesn't stay in tune and gives up playing. Just because we know there are fakes out there doesn't mean that everyone does. Many of my friends who do play don't even know about the fake situation so how can anyone expect people with no guitar knowledge at all to be informed? All fake sellers should be turned in to Gibson and ebay if that is where they are selling them. I've done this a number of times and the sellers ads have been taken down and their ebay accounts terminated. It doesn't take a lot of time to send an email and if it helps prevent someone from getting ripped off, it's worth it to me to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaSTuS Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 Well maybe she can't afford a new one and like many people turns to ebay to find one. So not knowing anything about fakes, she finds a 'new' one at a great price and buys it. Johnny ends up with a guitar that's a piece or garbage, sounds like crap and doesn't stay in tune and gives up playing. Just because we know there are fakes out there doesn't mean that everyone does. Many of my friends who do play don't even know about the fake situation so how can anyone expect people with no guitar knowledge at all to be informed? All fake sellers should be turned in to Gibson and ebay if that is where they are selling them. I've done this a number of times and the sellers ads have been taken down and their ebay accounts terminated. It doesn't take a lot of time to send an email and if it helps prevent someone from getting ripped off, it's worth it to me to do it. It seems many of your friends are blessed with the same lack of intelligence you possess. FYI guitars aren't the only thing that gets counterfeited, almost everything is susceptible to the counterfeiters, ever heard of the phrase "BUYER BEWARE", it's never been more appropriate than in these times where global trade is no further than a mouse click away. If people don't do their homework, for whatever reason, you can't blame the counterfeiters for their stupidity. You must feel a big man bringing these global counterfeiting rings to their knees, I'm sure they're all quaking in their boots knowing you are on the hunt, what happens if your wrong though, some poor soul who needs to sell their guitar so they can feed their kids gets shafted from eBay simply because of an over zealous fool who they have never met consigns their family to another fortnight of baked beans on toast. What makes you such an expert. eBay certainly don't have teams of guitar experts double checking such accusations, they're more likely just to pull the listing because of any legal issues that may arise, covering their arse. I hope that you can understand these concerns little Johnny. FWIW, I don't condone counterfeiting in any form, for any reason, I just question the usefulness of over zealous, self appointed, so (and self) called experts. If you are so good at spotting fakes why don't you apply for a position with Gibson or eBay, I'm sure you'd feel really important if you were able to be superman and get paid for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karine_plays Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 wow, settle down there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggs Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 wow, settle down there karine: Your response would have carried so much more weight without the emoticon ...lol Rob: Now dont be scared to tell us what you're thinking there will ya Bros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaSTuS Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 karine: Your response would have carried so much more weight without the emoticon ...lol Rob: Now dont be scared to tell us what you're thinking there will ya Bros. You know where I grew up Stu, if someone hits, kicks or bites you, then you hit, kick or bite them back with double the ferocity, you were squished like a bug by everyone else if it looked like you took a backward step. It must just be in my nature now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggs Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 You know where I grew up Stu, if someone hits, kicks or bites you, then you hit, kick or bite them back with double the ferocity, you were squished like a bug by everyone else if it looked like you took a backward step. It must just be in my nature now. I don't recall Tommy Leonetti mentioning any of that when he sang 'My City of Sydney' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaSTuS Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 He must have never ventured into the Western Suburbs, few people rarely do, unless dragged there. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karine_plays Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 you sound like Charlie Sheen, babble on You know where I grew up Stu, if someone hits, kicks or bites you, then you hit, kick or bite them back with double the ferocity, you were squished like a bug by everyone else if it looked like you took a backward step. It must just be in my nature now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaSTuS Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 you sound like Charlie Sheen, babble on Do you think, do you really think so, thanks sooo much KP, I'm a huge fan, like you wouldn't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggs Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 you sound like Charlie Sheen, babble on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaSTuS Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 ^^^^ +1 ROFLMAO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karine_plays Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 this went from a discussion to baby-fest real fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barcham Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 RaSTuS, I'll ignore the insulting tone of your post. It's pretty easy to pick out the major sellers of fake Epiphones on ebay. When you see someone selling multiple guitars, claiming that they are shipped direct from the factory in China, and asking a buy it now price less than half of retail, you can be pretty sure that they're selling fakes. And even if it's a private party, why should he/she be able to pawn their fake off on some unknowing victim? I'm sorry that over here in North America, unlike Oz apparently, not every person is aware of the serious problem of fake guitars being sold. Some don't even know the difference between a Gibson and a Fender and really don't give a damn. They just want to buy their kid a guitar. And not everyone starting out to play gives it a second thought either. Anything that anyone can do to cut down on the number of fakes out there is worth the time and effort to me. And if I can help keep one person from getting screwed out of their hard earned money, that's all I can ask for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaSTuS Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 RaSTuS, I'll ignore the insulting tone of your post. It's pretty easy to pick out the major sellers of fake Epiphones on ebay. When you see someone selling multiple guitars, claiming that they are shipped direct from the factory in China, and asking a buy it now price less than half of retail, you can be pretty sure that they're selling fakes. And even if it's a private party, why should he/she be able to pawn their fake off on some unknowing victim? I'm sorry that over here in North America, unlike Oz apparently, not every person is aware of the serious problem of fake guitars being sold. Some don't even know the difference between a Gibson and a Fender and really don't give a damn. They just want to buy their kid a guitar. And not everyone starting out to play gives it a second thought either. Anything that anyone can do to cut down on the number of fakes out there is worth the time and effort to me. And if I can help keep one person from getting screwed out of their hard earned money, that's all I can ask for. Hey, I was just returning serve. The instances you mention of listings saying they were coming direct from the factory are obvious, the way I understood your post was that you were doing this to anything you though was fake, you failed to mention about the direct from the factory blurb in the listings, or that they were offering similar deals in other listings, that makes a whole lot of difference. It seemed you would just arbitrarily decide something was fake and take action, akin to a vigilante of sorts. I still maintain however, if someone gets stung because of lack of homework, then I have absolutely no sympathy whatsoever for them, I have often bought things I initially know nothing about, but I'm very careful with my money, I owe it to myself to be, I'm a pensioner on a very strict income, as I write this I have a bank balance of 50c and my next pay isn't for a week and a half, I have $110 cash, but that's it. This is why I was defending the poor guy who couldn't afford to feed his kids, which was easy to read into that post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bonzoboy Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 When I see an obvious fake on ebay I feel that I have a moral duty to report them and try to get them shut down. Not all buyers are aware what a huge business the fake industry is and quite innocently figure that ebay is a safe place to do business.I have reported several of these charlatans because I don't feel that people deserve to get ripped off just because they're naive or overly trusting.There are some fakes out there that even people fairly well in the know get fooled by so any broker of fake guitars should be reported if you know the difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barcham Posted March 27, 2011 Share Posted March 27, 2011 RaSTuS, when I see a private party selling an OBVIOUS fake, I'll send him a message to let him know. Hopefully he'll take it down. If I see someone selling a dozen fakes 'direct from the factory', I'll report him to ebay and to Gibson. Everyone works hard for their money and no one deserves to be ripped off. Many people who buy fakes never even know it and just end up thinking that Epis are crap guitars based on the piece of crap they bought. What can I say, I hate to see people get ripped off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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