Gibson Guitar Board: replacement tuners for j45 (like for like, no drilling) - Gibson Guitar Board

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replacement tuners for j45 (like for like, no drilling)

#1 User is offline   ParlourMan 

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Posted 30 May 2011 - 03:58 AM

In the interests of doing my homework about my next purchase (HB TV, J45TV and those Ive already posted about) I've been milking my contacts for Gibson owners, a few nights ago I was able to try another J-45 standard via a colleague, he plays the flute in an Irish ensemble, but his mate from his band has a son who plays a Gibson.... good enough for me... so with a bit of organising and a trip to listen to this band play I was able to try the J-45 standard. I think it was a 2005/2006 model, he bought it new in 06.

First off, and the main reason for my post, one of the tuners was damaged, not quite unusable but damaged none the less, the guitar had fallen and the headstock has a small piece of the wood missing near the top and a slightly bent tuner for the D.

Mojo aside it was a nice guitar and as I'm looking for a giggable guitar I'm wondering if the Std might be a better/more economical purchase as opposed to buying a TV then looking for a suitable pick-up system. but enough of my to'ing and fro'ing about what to buy, the lad mentioned he would like to swap out the tuners to get rid of the damaged one, but doesn't want to make any further changes to the guitar (I think he has limited DIY skills and no money for luthier type repairs and re-drills) so I'll ask here what tuners can he buy that still have a Gibson vibe that will act as a direct replacement? I'd say he's a heavy player, mostly cowboy chords I could see fairly visible fret-wear but above the 6th fret looked brand new. I found the guitar to be much better when I capo's above the 4th as frets 2 and 3 on the D shape were fairly well worn for a 5 year old guitar.

I offered that the vintage ones with white/ivory buttons needed re-drilling, am I correct on this or have I been talking rubbish? Also recommendation for the parts he would need with European suppliers if you can. If he wont deal with a luthier for a repair I can't see the lad importing from the US.
http://www.youtube.c...ser/TheAyeTunes

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#2 User is offline   j45nick 

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Posted 30 May 2011 - 06:19 AM

You don't mention which tuners he has on the guitar now. The J 45 Standard now has Rotomatics, but I've never seen anyone bend a shaft on one of those, so I'm guessing he has something else. Are they three-on-a-plate Gibson/Kluson repros, individual with white or nickel buttons, single rings, or what?

His best chance for a single replacement tuner might be a repair shop. The first thing I would do is see if it can be straightened enough using a vise (don't clamp directly on a plastic button!)to make it usable.

In any case, it is no big deal to get replacement tuners shipped from the US (grguitars.com or stewmac.com) if he can't find them locally in the UK at a good guitar store.

#3 User is offline   ryanfender 

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Posted 30 May 2011 - 06:57 AM

Elderly Instruments has true Kluson 3 on a plate replacements. The StewMac are not the same but it still probably fit if the guitar uses the Klusion 3 on a plate variety.
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#4 User is offline   ParlourMan 

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Posted 30 May 2011 - 07:18 AM

It's the individual rotomatics type, it's quite a knock it must have taken, the tuner although a bit bent and bashed is useable but noticeably stiffer than the others, as I don't know the guy well I didn't make a meal of it and ask to take pics etc... but yes its the first time Ive seen one of these 'tanks' a bit buckled myself.

Would the three on a plate fit this guitar or is he stuck with a single replacement, I've never had to make such a replacement myself so no experience on it, although I offered my thoughts that others might require a bit of messing about to make them work I thought I'd ask here to make sure I wasn't talking through my cheeky bits at the back ;)

I'd say the slice of wood that came off the back was about 2-3mm deep and about 1.5cm in length, I did have a peek to make sure it didn't have a headstock/neck crack due to it but couldn't see any other stresses than what were completely visible on first look, the results looks like he had a very nervous few seconds when it happened. Nasty... I'd say even with new tuners he's devalued his guitar quite a bit as there's no hiding it without some kind of expensive repair.
http://www.youtube.c...ser/TheAyeTunes

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#5 User is offline   littlejohnny 

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Posted 30 May 2011 - 07:19 AM

Hi there,

I have J-45 made in 2005. it has Kluson 3 on side (single, not on a plate) tuners with white plastic buttons.

http://www.kluson.com/PRODUCTS.htm

You will find the same tuners on Les Paul specials.

I would guess a 2006 uses the same tuners, because it was the time before gibson introduced the MC and TV line. By the way, I heard the 2005/2006 j-45 are somewhere between the MC and the TV of today. Mine is labelled as "historic collection" whatever thats supposed to mean.

#6 User is offline   j45nick 

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Posted 30 May 2011 - 08:25 AM

The simplest thing would be a like-for-like replacement, particularly if he is not very handy. It may not be that easy to buy a single tuner, by the way. It sounds like this is really a gigging guitar, so I wouldn't worry that much about the wood ding, but I would do a very careful inspection of the neck and headstock for structural damage.

A guitar that has serious play wear, particularly if it is a modern guitar rather than a vintage one, is likely to be substantially de-valued in any case. A guitar is just a tool for a professional, and tools take a beating in every trade.

#7 User is offline   ParlourMan 

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Posted 30 May 2011 - 08:30 AM

View Postlittlejohnny, on 30 May 2011 - 07:19 AM, said:

Hi there,

I have J-45 made in 2005. it has Kluson 3 on side (single, not on a plate) tuners with white plastic buttons.

http://www.kluson.com/PRODUCTS.htm

You will find the same tuners on Les Paul specials.

I would guess a 2006 uses the same tuners, because it was the time before gibson introduced the MC and TV line. By the way, I heard the 2005/2006 j-45 are somewhere between the MC and the TV of today. Mine is labelled as "historic collection" whatever thats supposed to mean.


No, it was definitely the individual chunky ones you see on Std's today. Sadly the guitar hasn't been overly cared for, but he was only around the 20 mark, so perhaps his semi beat-up chipped job is cool among his mates. Very hard strummer and the death grip, the fretwear was very noticeable and loads of strumming scratches that were fairly noticeable too. underneath the surface damage it was nice to play when capo'd though.
http://www.youtube.c...ser/TheAyeTunes

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#8 User is offline   EuroAussie 

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Posted 30 May 2011 - 08:46 AM

It shouldnt be a problem and you should be able to buy them from Thomann.

I replaced my vintage tuners on the CW (which went onto the AL SJ) and bougth from Thomann vintage looking tulips, so basically the CW is now a HB :-)

No drilling was involved and I bought exactly the same tuner sizes.

Just a simple switch.

http://www.thomann.d...renmechanik.htm
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#9 User is offline   ParlourMan 

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Posted 30 May 2011 - 08:54 AM

Those look spot-on EA, I'll forward the link to my colleague and get him to pass it on to the young lad. 42eur isn't really breaking the bank either, I'm sure a surly teenager gets more than that in pocket money per week here. ;)

Given the condition of frets 1-4 though I'd say he'll be needing a refret before too long.
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#10 User is offline   j45nick 

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Posted 30 May 2011 - 09:09 AM

When I bought my '48 J-45 in 1966, the first four frets, and the fretboard in that area, were worn to a nub, The 'burst around the soundhole and pickguard were worn away, and she had a pickup wire hole in the lower bout. That was on a guitar only 18 years old.

Gigging is hard on any guitar, unless you are playing that modern metro-sexual Taylor thingie stuff that requires you to delicately and sensitively pluck the strings.

When I was in the "business" back in the late 60s and early 70s, we used to say that the band always had to play loud and hard, as we were competing with a glass of beer and a piece of a$$ for the attention of the audience. It was no contest most of the time, as anyone who has played bars can testify.

I would go direct replacment tuner, and be done with it. Rotomatics ain't pretty--partuclarly on a J-45--but they do the job. I put Grover Sta-tites on my J-45 back around 1970, as the three-on-a-plate Klusons just weren't that good. Trying to tune repeatedly in a loud venue isn't much fun in any case.

#11 User is offline   Spot 

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Posted 30 May 2011 - 09:49 AM

View PostParlourMan, on 30 May 2011 - 03:58 AM, said:

First off, and the main reason for my post, one of the tuners was damaged, not quite unusable but damaged none the less, the guitar had fallen and the headstock has a small piece of the wood missing near the top and a slightly bent tuner for the D.



Please don't put Grovers on your guitar, they just look plain wrong and also add quite a bit of weight to the neck....

Just buy a new set of Kluson (or Tonepros with a 18:1 ratio) and lightly relic them and you will have exactly what you need...No drilling nasty holes in your guitar!!!

Posted Image
...heavy relic for my Country western

Posted Image
..soon to be light relic for my J-50

If they are good enough for hard working Proffessional touring musicians like the guys below,...they are good enough for me!!!


Posted Image
Ryan!!!

Posted Image
Aimee Mann

Posted Image
Neal Casal
Guitars

'58 LG-2 w/
Bob Colosi Black Buffalo Horn Bridge pins
'60 ES-125T
'63 Country Western
'64 J-50 w
/ Bob Colosi Bone Bridge pins
'79 ES-335 TD

'82 Epi Sheraton (MIJ)
'97 Epi Sheraton II (USA)

'49 Martin 00-17 w
/ Bob Colosi Bone Bridge pins


..........................................................and a few Harmony's

#12 User is offline   SC_Wannabe 

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Posted 30 May 2011 - 09:59 AM

Spotondrums - are you putting those 3 on a plate Tonepros on a modern J50? Do they line up with the holes? I've been searching for some white oval replacement tuners for my 2007 J50. I really don't like the Rotomatics. The specs on all of the 3-on a plate tuners at Stewmac don't line up with the holes on my J50 though.
2007 J-50, 2009 LP Studio Faded Maple

#13 User is offline   Spot 

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Posted 30 May 2011 - 10:03 AM

View PostSC_Wannabe, on 30 May 2011 - 09:59 AM, said:

Spotondrums - are you putting those 3 on a plate Tonepros on a modern J50? Do they line up with the holes? I've been searching for some white oval replacement tuners for my 2007 J50. I really don't like the Rotomatics. The specs on all of the 3-on a plate tuners at Stewmac don't line up with the holes on my J50 though.


...No,..they are for my '64 J-50. These Klusons (Model No: WD90NPP) all should be a straight swap and line up assuming you currently have the original exact Kluson 3 on a plate tuners. Buy them from WDMusic as they bought the licence for Kluson to repr the originals...

Hope that helps...

[thumbup]
Guitars

'58 LG-2 w/
Bob Colosi Black Buffalo Horn Bridge pins
'60 ES-125T
'63 Country Western
'64 J-50 w
/ Bob Colosi Bone Bridge pins
'79 ES-335 TD

'82 Epi Sheraton (MIJ)
'97 Epi Sheraton II (USA)

'49 Martin 00-17 w
/ Bob Colosi Bone Bridge pins


..........................................................and a few Harmony's

#14 User is offline   Spot 

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Posted 30 May 2011 - 10:13 AM

The tuner below is for the other side but I think it gives you an idea...

Posted Image
Guitars

'58 LG-2 w/
Bob Colosi Black Buffalo Horn Bridge pins
'60 ES-125T
'63 Country Western
'64 J-50 w
/ Bob Colosi Bone Bridge pins
'79 ES-335 TD

'82 Epi Sheraton (MIJ)
'97 Epi Sheraton II (USA)

'49 Martin 00-17 w
/ Bob Colosi Bone Bridge pins


..........................................................and a few Harmony's

#15 User is offline   ParlourMan 

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Posted 30 May 2011 - 03:42 PM

View PostSpotondrums, on 30 May 2011 - 09:49 AM, said:

Please don't put Grovers on your guitar, they just look plain wrong and also add quite a bit of weight to the neck....

Just buy a new set of Kluson (or Tonepros with a 18:1 ratio) and lightly relic them and you will have exactly what you need...No drilling nasty holes in your guitar!!!



It's not mine Spotondrums, it belongs to the lad of an older guy who's friends with my colleague, a flute player in an Irish type thing. I haven't bought a J-45, merely considering one, despite his guitars flaws it was cool when capo'd past the trouble spots and the previous new one I played was quite impressive too so I'm considering it. Rotomatics certainly ain't the most elegant looking but I'm not much of a tinkerer with stuff that still works ;)

His D tuner could still be used but was almost twice as stiff to the turn as the other undamaged tuners, so definitely worth a replacement in my opinion. The wear n tear though given it's young age, he must be playing it like he was competing with a metal band. I wouldn't give much for it second hand to be honest and would certainly be more drawn to a new or less carelessly used model than this was.

I'm just back from a rehearsal with my Keb Mo, disaster of a night, PA cut out about half a dozen times, on/off like a ADHD kid near a lightswitch. As a result the newer songs were all complete rubbish, booming, buzzing, off... reboot, repeat till temper goes... Posted Image
http://www.youtube.c...ser/TheAyeTunes

Lets all have a wee cuddle.

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