Sixties ES 345

[kapepper]

Hi everybody

 

looking to buy a second gibson, this time it looks like a 1965-66 Gibson ES 345

what would be a fair price for this guitar

comes with original case and the guitar looks in very good condition

here are some pics

 

 

 

many thanks, appreciated!

[sok66]

These things are in the eyes of the beholder in terms of value. That looks pretty nice, but the bridge, tailpiece, knobs and maybe the tuners are not original. In top, original condition guys are listing ES335s of that vintage in the $5-6,000 range and taking around $3,800 to $4,800 for them. ES345s don't command much or any preium over a 335, so I'd say you're somewhere in the $4k range with the alterations. Note that while the bridge & tailpiece changes may improve the tone & playability of the guitar, once you alter it the value takes a sizable hit.

[j45nick]

As sok66 says, the ES 345 commands no premium over the ES 335, in general. In fact, for the "primo" years of 1959-1964, an ES 335 is usually worth a lot more than the ES 345.

 

The serial number for this one probably dates it to mid-1965, which was a transition year. In transition years, it's the details that determine the value. If the nut width is 1 11/16" rather than 1 9/16", the guitar is worth more. Changed-out parts reduce the value. You would need more detailed photos of all the hardware to determine what has actually been replaced.

 

The value sok66 has placed on it is reasonable, if the rest of the guitar lines up with these pictures.

 

Some sellers don't understand the ES 335-345-355 market, and tend to price guitars based on what they see asked for primo guitars from primo years. Don't get sucked in. There aren't many ES 335-345-355's from 1965 to 1969 that sell for $5K or more.

[kapepper]

As sok66 says, the ES 345 commands no premium over the ES 335, in general. In fact, for the "primo" years of 1959-1964, an ES 335 is usually worth a lot more than the ES 345.

 

The serical number for this one probably dates it to mid-1965, which was a transition year. In transition years, it's the details that determine the value. If the nut width is 1 11/16" rather than 1 9/16", the guitar is worth more. Changed-out parts reduce the value. You would need more detailed photos of all the hardware to determine what has actually been replaced.

 

The value sok66 has placed on it is reasonable, if the rest of the guitar lines up with these pictures.

 

Some sellers don't understand the ES 335-345-355 market, and tend to price guitars based on what they see asked for primo guitars from primo years. Don't get sucked in. There aren't many ES 335-345-355's from 1965 to 1969 that sell for $5K or more.

 

 

thanks for the advice! asking price is now 3600 USD but have to check indeed more in detail... will ask for more pics and post them

cheers

kark

[JimR56]

That looks pretty nice, but the bridge, tailpiece, knobs and maybe the tuners are not original.

I agree that the stop tailpiece is not original, but I'm not sure I follow you on the other three. Please elaborate.

[Ken Rayba]

Maybe you already know this, but if the guitar is still wired in "Stereo", you are going to need a "Y" chord so that both pick-ups will work. If you use a standard guitar chord, only the neck pick-up works. If it was modified, you probably won't need one.

 

It was desiged to be used with two seperate amps, or a two channel amp, like a Super Reverb, which I have used w/my ES-345.

 

There are some discussion on this forum from way back that you could probably find on this issue.

[j45nick]

Maybe you already know this, but if the guitar is still wired in "Stereo", you are going to need a "Y" chord so that both pick-ups will work. If you use a standard guitar chord, only the neck pick-up works. If it was modified, you probably won't need one.

 

It was desiged to be used with two seperate amps, or a two channel amp, like a Super Reverb, which I have used w/my ES-345.

 

There are some discussion on this forum from way back that you could probably find on this issue.

If you want the definitive discussion on the 345 vs. the 335, go to Charlie Gelber's ES 335 website, es-335.org.

[hatipa]

Anybody know anything about ES345s from 1998? I understand the originals stopped being made around 1982 and that reissues popped up some time afterward - but I don't know when. I've come across one I was told is from 1998 and am awaiting a S/N before going to have a look. Viceroy brown color. Asking $2800. Can anyone tell me if this sounds legit?

[Spot]

thanks for the advice! asking price is now 3600 USD but have to check indeed more in detail... will ask for more pics and post them

cheers

kark

 

If it's that price it will be the 1 9/16 narrow nut.....

 

[sok66]

I agree that the stop tailpiece is not original, but I'm not sure I follow you on the other three. Please elaborate.

 

Bridge looks to be a replacement, original would have some gold wear and nylon saddles. Tuners look like newer replacements. Original reflector knob inserts were smooth gold, black letters with clear sprayed over. Current ones use a brushed gold metal base, and the plastic extends higher above the insert.

[JimR56]

Bridge looks to be a replacement, original would have some gold wear and nylon saddles.

From the photo above, I can't really tell if the gold plating is all there. I also can't tell if the saddles are nylon or metal (the color looks like it could be nylon, or it could be light reflecting off metal). Either way, I don't think one should expect to see nylon saddles at the time this guitar was made. Their prime years were roughly 1961 to 1963, from what I've read, and they were phased out after that.

 

Tuners look like newer replacements.

Any particular reason? The buttons look like they could be new, but that doesn't mean the entire tuners were replaced.

 

Original reflector knob inserts were smooth gold, black letters with clear sprayed over. Current ones use a brushed gold metal base, and the plastic extends higher above the insert.

You may be right, but again, I'm not sure how you can say for sure based on the one photo here... especially in terms of how high the plastic extends above the insert (not a good angle to be able to tell for sure).

 

Basically, I'm just suggesting that I'm not seeing enough evidence to be so sure about some of these parts.

[j45nick]

From the photo above, I can't really tell if the gold plating is all there. I also can't tell if the saddles are nylon or metal (the color looks like it could be nylon, or it could be light reflecting off metal). Either way, I don't think one should expect to see nylon saddles at the time this guitar was made. Their prime years were roughly 1961 to 1963, from what I've read, and they were phased out after that.

 

 

Any particular reason? The buttons look like they could be new, but that doesn't mean the entire tuners were replaced.

 

 

You may be right, but again, I'm not sure how you can say for sure based on the one photo here... especially in terms of how high the plastic extends above the insert (not a good angle to be able to tell for sure).

 

Basically, I'm just suggesting that I'm not seeing enough evidence to be so sure about some of these parts.

I have to agree with Jim here. Without inspecting the guitar first-hand, it really is difficult to tell which of these parts might be replacements, other than the stop-tail. I've seen plenty of tuners from this period in near-perfect shape, and trying to definitively tell if bridge and saddles are original would take a braver man than this one, particularly when it comes to a 345 rather than a 335. In any case, those particular elements are less important to the value of a guitar from the "non-primo" 335/345 years (anything after '64) than they would be on a '59-'64 guitar where top dollar is being asked. Original pickups would be the most important of the potential "replaceable" parts. All else is commentary,

[sok66]

The knobs & bridge are pretty obvious replacements to me, the tuners a little less so. You can see the knob inserts are the current reissue brushed style very clearly. The saddles are the current reissue sharp-edged metal style. The originals would have been white nylon with flattened edges. If the rest of the guitar is in good shape I wouldn't consider these changes deal killers. Not sure why, but in a lot of instances I've seen '60s Gibsons where guys replaced the knobs. My guess is because the metal inserts fell out, which was not uncommon. For quite a while you couldn't get the reflector style knobs, you'd either have to take the "witch hat" knobs (yuck!) or the earlier ones without the reflectors.

[JimR56]

The saddles are the current reissue sharp-edged metal style. The originals would have been white nylon with flattened edges.

I'm still confused by this. Did you see what I said about the nylon only being predominant for a couple of years? (roughly '61 to '63) I've read this a number of times, and from my experiences with guitars from the 60's, I see no reason to doubt it. Can you explain why you're suggesting that a '65 should have nylon saddles?

 

Also, I don't see how you can identify the saddles so confidently from the one photo we have, which is not a very close shot. What are you specifically seeing that I'm not?

 

Thanks.

[sok66]

I sold retail and played a lot of Gibsons in those days so I can spot a lot of replacement details. The saddles in that era were virtually all nylon, running up into the early 70s. Over the years it's pretty common for them to have been replaced with metal. The bridges will often have collapsed slightly in the middle, especially if it was strung with heavy gauge strings. Luthiers will frequently have just replaced the entire bridge rather than try & restore the radius on the original, which is very tricky. Zoom in on the knobs and you can clearly see they're the newer RI style.

 

Edit to add that the "amber" switch tip is not original either. By that era they'd changed to a white plastic that doesn't yellow like the old ones. The yellowing was pretty much cured by 1960, so if you see post '60 guitars with an amber switch tip it's likely a reissue replacement part.

 

BTW, a stop tailpiece from the factory would be very unusual after early '65. Virtually all of them either had a trapeze tailpiece, or a Bigsby, a stop tail was special order. I don't see any filled holes on the top, so it didnt have a Bigsby. If someone added the stop tail after the fact the guitar was originally equipped with a trapeze. You'll be able to tell by looking at the strap button area, look for three small holes. It's likely a luthier installed the stop tail and a new bridge at the same time, a pretty common and wise conversion.

[kaicho8888]

I concur with SOK66 on nylon saddles, trapeze, toggle switch, and the knobs....

[guitardunc]

OK... I know this thread is a little long in the tooth but here's my two cents worth.

 

My '65 ES-345 is #279151. Likely it came out of the factory the same day as the one pictured above (#279126). My guitar also has the stop tailpiece. It is most definitely factory original. There are NO Bigsby holes. There are NO trapeze holes. Despite all the received wisdom, it seems that thinline instruments were still being produced with the stop tailpiece at this time. Oh, and it has the 1 11/16in nut width.

[spitball]

Anybody know anything about ES345s from 1998? I understand the originals stopped being made around 1982 and that reissues popped up some time afterward - but I don't know when. I've come across one I was told is from 1998 and am awaiting a S/N before going to have a look. Viceroy brown color. Asking $2800. Can anyone tell me if this sounds legit?

 

Yes, production stopped in 1982, and resumed, I believe, in the late 90s. I have one from 2011, and it is such an excellent instrument that I have lost the desire I once had for the 60's guitars like the beauty shown in the OP. I was able to get mine for a little less than $2800, so I would hope you could do considerably better for a 1998 model...unless the resale prices are holding very strongly (as I think they deserve to).

 

I have no idea how a 1998 model differs from a 2011 model...the 2011 has '57 Classic pickups and has the dual jacks for stereo and mono options. I love it!

 

To keep this sort of on topic, I must say that '65/'66 is gorgeous!

[Gene1000]

Hello all, my first post here.

 

I just ordered a 2004 cherry ES 345. It's used, but in excellent condition except for slight fading on the gold bridge. I'm thinking of replacing the bridge with a new one and obviously keeping the old one. Anyone know which bridge I would need to purchase?

 

Second question: How about the gold covers for the humbuckers? Anyone know which and where to buy?

 

Third question: I want to add a gold Bigsby to the instrument. Can someone please tell me which Bigsby model I should purchase?

 

Also, what is the best way to install the Bigsby on the ES 345? Should I go with a Vibramate kit? I've heard that EZ Mount from Guitar Works might also work, but I'm not able to get in touch with them. Can't find any contact information.

 

Has anyone installed a Bigsby on an ES 345 and if so, can you help?

 

Thanks all,

Gene from Cherry Hill, NJ

[Pin]

My advice would be not to install a Bigsby as it would mean holes in the top and would probably adversely affect resale value (this might not be an issue for you). I think they play better without a Bigsby in any case.

[Gene1000]

My advice would be not to install a Bigsby as it would mean holes in the top and would probably adversely affect resale value (this might not be an issue for you). I think they play better without a Bigsby in any case.

 

Just went to the Vibramate website and discovered that they make a kit to install a Bigsby B7 on an ES-335 without drilling any holes.

Here's the link: http://www.vibramate.com/vibramate-v7-335-install.php

 

And here's a link to their schematic: http://www.vibramate.com/images/Vibramate-V7-335-Spec-1200.gif

 

It looks like their mounting bracket attaches to the right side bridge hole and then the Bigsby attaches to the mounting bracket.

 

Has anyone done this?

 

Looks good to me. I'm assuming that the ES345 is the same size as the ES335.

[Gene1000]

Just installed the Bigsby and the Vibramate kit. No new holes were drilled. Able to revert back to the original setup easily, although I will not.

Here's the before and after pictures:

[Pin]

Just went to the Vibramate website and discovered that they make a kit to install a Bigsby B7 on an ES-335 without drilling any holes.

Here's the link: http://www.vibramate.com/vibramate-v7-335-install.php

 

And here's a link to their schematic: http://www.vibramate.com/images/Vibramate-V7-335-Spec-1200.gif

 

It looks like their mounting bracket attaches to the right side bridge hole and then the Bigsby attaches to the mounting bracket.

 

Has anyone done this?

 

Looks good to me. I'm assuming that the ES345 is the same size as the ES335.

 

That's interesting Gene and a good thing to know about.

 

Pics of your finished guitar with the Bigsby vibramate look fine to me.

 

I would be unlikely to make the mod myself on a stoptail Gibby but still useful to know as an option.

[Tedd]

Just installed the Bigsby and the Vibramate kit. No new holes were drilled. Able to revert back to the original setup easily, although I will not.

Here's the before and after pictures:

I've been contemplating installing a Bigsby on my brand new ES-335 using the Vibramate V7-335. I've hesitated because the Vibramate V7-335 doesn't seem to have much of a market presence. Where did you buy yours? Now that you've had the Bigsby installed for a few weeks, what do you think? Does it feel and play the same as a factory installed Bigsby? Do you recommend the V7-335 installed Bigsby B7? Thanks for your help

[Gene1000]

I've been contemplating installing a Bigsby on my brand new ES-335 using the Vibramate V7-335. I've hesitated because the Vibramate V7-335 doesn't seem to have much of a market presence. Where did you buy yours? Now that you've had the Bigsby installed for a few weeks, what do you think? Does it feel and play the same as a factory installed Bigsby? Do you recommend the V7-335 installed Bigsby B7? Thanks for your help

 

I purchased my Bigsby B7 and the Vibramate installation kit on Ebay. Here is the link to my purchase. I paid $245 for both the Bigsby and the installation kit from the same seller. I recommend this purchase if you like Bigsbys. Easy to install, no drilling. You can revert back to the original easily.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/131152982723

 

The vendor is: http://www.ebay.com/usr/ztdguitarbeast01?_trksid=p2047675.l2559

 

While it's not cheap, I'm very glad that I went with the Bigsby and the kit. It works well with no problems. As good as a factory installation in my view.

 

Best of luck.