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New Epiphone Truss Rods

#1 User is offline   BSS 

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 01:34 PM

I've got a brand new Epiphone Studio Dot. I was going to give it a set up and when I went to adjust the truss rod to give it some relief, I noticed a few things.

One, I turned it counter clockwise and the nust loosened up after a tiny turn, so I turned it a little more and after about a 1/4 turn I got resistance again. This seems to me to behave like a dual action truss rod.

The other thing I noticed is that the inner part of the truss rod "nut" turned (the part that you stick the allen wrench in) and the outer part didn't move. Almost like the allen nut part was in a cylinder. Looking at some pics, this looks similar to the way some bi-flex rods are set up.

I saw that this topic has been discussed on this forum before, but I also saw on a google search that some Epi's were listed as having dual action rods. Is epiphone using a bi-flex system on their new guitars?

#2 User is offline   Whitmore Willy 

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 02:28 PM

View PostBSS, on 26 October 2011 - 01:34 PM, said:

The other thing I noticed is that the inner part of the truss rod "nut" turned (the part that you stick the allen wrench in) and the outer part didn't move. Almost like the allen nut part was in a cylinder.

How about posting a pic. If the allen socket is in a cylinder it should be easy enough to spot...Maybe?

BSS, on 26 October 2011 - 01:34 PM, said:

I also saw on a google search that some Epi's were listed as having dual action rods. Is epiphone using a bi-flex system on their new guitars?

Anything is possible.
Would you put up some links to the web site(s)? I, for one, would be interested.

This from about a month ago:
http://forum.gibson....me-information/

Willy

P.S. Congrats on the new guitar and Welcome To The Forum!
Pics of the full guitar would also be cool.

W.W.

#3 User is offline   animalfarm 

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 04:37 AM

View PostWhitmore Willy, on 26 October 2011 - 02:28 PM, said:


Anything is possible.
Would you put up some links to the web site(s)? I, for one, would be interested.

This from about a month ago:
http://forum.gibson....me-information/

Willy


Once again the dreaded truss rod topic surfaces! Thinking we had FINALLY found
a definitive answer, I parked this topic/thread in the EPI LOUNGE DIY near the top
in the Cross-Reference Guide. Maybe too soon for it? Hard to argue when EPI Co. themselves
says - "Nah, we use single action...".

I can always make corrections and adjustments to the DIY. I, too am interested in the
web site(s). This topic WAS recently discussed, but the issue revolved around what
seemed to be DEFECTIVE truss rods making it into the system - have to locate thread.

Anyway, bring on the discussion and WELCOME to the Forum!!!!!!

GITS:
2006 Epi LP Classic (Amber Quilt Top), 498T/490R Gibson pups, Gibson Deluxe Tulip Tuners
2010 SX Hawk Strat Copy w/ two P-90s, Mahogany with Maple neck/Fretboard, with Stop-Tail
2010 Ovation CC-24 Flamed Koa Top Acoustic-Electric
2010 Jay Turser JT-200 Pro Les Paul Double Cut-Away (TransAmber), Gibson Deluxe Tulip Tuners
AMPS:
Crate (mid-90s) Vintage Club 50, all tube 50W
Vox VT-15 Modelling Amp, 15W
Marshall MG15CD Amp, 15W

#4 User is offline   BSS 

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 06:53 AM

Read the specs on the following guitars, it says truss rod: 2-way, double action:

http://www.musicians...electric-guitar
http://www.musicians...electric-guitar

I've also read a few forum threads (on here and elsewhere) that describe people turning the adjustment nut CCW and it frees up and then turning a little more it gets tight. After turning it a little more once it gets tight, they have more relief.

I did see the thread mentioned above with regards to contacting Epiphone about 2-way truss rods, but I was just curious as to exactly what style rod they use.

I will post pictures of mine tonight showing how the center allen nut part is housed in a "cylinder" that stays stationary while the inside moves. It looks very, very similar to this:
http://www.guitarpro...itarpro_845.jpg

#5 User is offline   Whitmore Willy 

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 08:04 AM

BSS,

That's what it says, alright. Thanks for posting the links. Good update.
Epiphone Les Paul Ultra-II :
# Body: Mahogany, strategically chambered
# Top: Quilted maple
# Neck: Mahogany
# Neck Profile: SlimTaper, satin finish
# Neck Joint: Glued-In
# Truss Rod: double-action, 2-way

Marcus Henderson Apparition:
# Fingerboard: Ebony with crossed scythe inlays
# Fingerboard Radius: 14"
# Frets: 24 jumbo nickel/silver alloy
# Nut Width: 1-11/16"
# Truss Rod: Double-action 2-way

Interesting pic link to the T.R. First time I've seen that type associated with a Gibson product.
Maybe a new production change?

Anyway, looking forward to your T.R. pic.
Also, don't forget pics of the rest of the guitar. We're junkies around here for guitar porn.
If you need any info on posting pics Animalfarm has some links in his DIY at the top of the Epiphone Lounge:
http://forum.gibson....piphone-lounge/

Willy

#6 User is offline   BSS 

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 08:40 AM

View PostWhitmore Willy, on 27 October 2011 - 08:04 AM, said:

BSS,

That's what it says, alright. Thanks for posting the links. Good update.
Epiphone Les Paul Ultra-II :
# Body: Mahogany, strategically chambered
# Top: Quilted maple
# Neck: Mahogany
# Neck Profile: SlimTaper, satin finish
# Neck Joint: Glued-In
# Truss Rod: double-action, 2-way

Marcus Henderson Apparition:
# Fingerboard: Ebony with crossed scythe inlays
# Fingerboard Radius: 14"
# Frets: 24 jumbo nickel/silver alloy
# Nut Width: 1-11/16"
# Truss Rod: Double-action 2-way

Interesting pic link to the T.R. First time I've seen that type associated with a Gibson product.
Maybe a new production change?

Anyway, looking forward to your T.R. pic.
Also, don't forget pics of the rest of the guitar. We're junkies around here for guitar porn.
If you need any info on posting pics Animalfarm has some links in his DIY at the top of the Epiphone Lounge:
http://forum.gibson....piphone-lounge/

Willy


I'll definitely post pics of the entire DOT, Les Paul, and the truss rod.

I've just never seen a truss rod behave/look the way mine does, so I hated to stir the pot on this topic on this forum again (as I had read all the posts related to it before I made one), but I was just curious as to if my truss rod was stripped (brand new guitar) or if this was a different style rod that I'm used to seeing.

I'll post pics tonight and we'll see what you fellas think.

#7 User is offline   Whitmore Willy 

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 08:51 AM

BSS,

What you wrote and the way you wrote is not "stirring the pot".
One of the things we pride ourselves on around here is keeping each other up to date.
New information, ideas and products as well as helping each other are some of the mainstays of this forum.

Posted Image

Willy

#8 User is offline   animalfarm 

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 04:48 AM

View PostBSS, on 27 October 2011 - 08:40 AM, said:

I'll definitely post pics of the entire DOT, Les Paul, and the truss rod.

I've just never seen a truss rod behave/look the way mine does, so I hated to stir the pot
on this topic on this forum again (as I had read all the posts related to it before I made one),
but I was just curious as to if my truss rod was stripped (brand new guitar) or if this was a
different style rod that I'm used to seeing.


All the Epis I've owned so far, still own, and my other geets have single-action
based on behavior when I adjust the necks for seasonal changes. If this is not the
case, I sho nuff have been fooled. I AM curious as to WHEN Epi started using Dual-action,
and does the paperwork that comes with the guitar ( [lol] ) indicates this, and has
adjustment instructions.

Your info is welcomed, we'll make the necessary DIY adjustments after the jury is in...!!!
[thumbup] [thumbup] [thumbup]

GITS:
2006 Epi LP Classic (Amber Quilt Top), 498T/490R Gibson pups, Gibson Deluxe Tulip Tuners
2010 SX Hawk Strat Copy w/ two P-90s, Mahogany with Maple neck/Fretboard, with Stop-Tail
2010 Ovation CC-24 Flamed Koa Top Acoustic-Electric
2010 Jay Turser JT-200 Pro Les Paul Double Cut-Away (TransAmber), Gibson Deluxe Tulip Tuners
AMPS:
Crate (mid-90s) Vintage Club 50, all tube 50W
Vox VT-15 Modelling Amp, 15W
Marshall MG15CD Amp, 15W

#9 User is offline   Chas63 

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 02:55 PM

I have 2 Epi's (Sheraton II and a 1966 G-400 Reissue). Both have been purchased new in the past year. Both truss rods act exactly the way the OP's truss rod did. In my opinion, that is exactly the way a single action truss rod should act.

When you loosen a single action truss rod, you are relaxing the tension in the rod. It takes awhile for the wood in the neck to adjust to this change. Therefore, the nut will feel loose until you back it off too far..... at which point you can't back it off any more until the wood adjusts to the change. Wait a day or so and try it again.

I'm not pretending to be any expert on this, because I'm not. I'm just telling you the way I think it works. Maybe they put a "stop" piece in there to keep people from backing the nut too far at one time.

Chas63

#10 User is offline   BSS 

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 06:48 PM

Alright, a day late, but here are the photos of the truss rod:
Posted Image
Posted Image
Posted Image

I know it's hard to see, but I marked the outside with a black permanent marker and rotated the inside.

Here is my Dot, Les Paul, and my amps/cab:
Posted Image

Sorry I'm late on the pics, leaving for a business trip to Holland tomorrow, so it's been hectic.

#11 User is offline   Whitmore Willy 

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Posted 29 October 2011 - 06:49 AM

Don't know about your truss rod.
Looks about the same as the ones I have in my Epiphones.
Anyway, as long as you can adjust it to get it where you need it, that's about all that counts as far as I'm concerned.

As for your guitars and amps. Great looking setup! I'll bet you get some great sounds out of them.
Especially like the Paul. (I'm kind of an L.P. guy) However, as of late I'm starting to consider a Dot.
My back isn't what it used to be.

Congrats again and thanks for postin' some great pics.

Willy

#12 User is offline   BSS 

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 07:32 AM

Probably the standard single-action Epiphone truss rod, just slightly different looking than I was expecting.

The only thing I'm worried about is that I was trying to add a little relief into the neck and I loosened the truss rod until it got loose and the neck still has very, very little relief. It's strung up with 10s now, and I could probably go to 11s, but I prefer 10s. Should I be concerned about not getting enough relief?

#13 User is offline   Whitmore Willy 

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 10:44 AM

View PostBSS, on 10 November 2011 - 07:32 AM, said:

Should I be concerned about not getting enough relief?

Yes.
A truss rod is meant to do a job. It should be capable of doing it. Which brings me to my next questions.

How are you measuring the relief?
How much relief do you have?
How much adjusting are you doing at one time?
Do you loosen the strings when adjusting?
Are you letting it settle for several hours and then re-checking the measurements?


***Personally I am over cautious when doing truss rod adjustments.***
I loosen the strings. Never give it more than 1/8 turn at a time.
Re-tune and let set for a couple of hours.
Re-check and repeat if need be.
Never give it more than 1/4 turn in any 24 hour period.

There is much more info on the subject of truss rods in the DIY by animalfarm at the top of the Epiphone Lounge.
Also good info from the DIY:
http://mysite.verizo...guitarsetup.htm

Willy

#14 User is offline   BSS 

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Posted 10 November 2011 - 12:50 PM

Willy, I haven't been loosening my strings (I suppose I should). I have only turned it until the allen nut loosens completely (probably not even 1/8th turn) and then continued turning CCW until it felt like it engaged threads again (just barely). I have let it set overnight this way. I am currently getting about a normal sheet of copy paper thickness' (.005) worth of relief. I was trying to back it off just slightly as I was getting a little buzz on the low E.

The more I play it today though, the more I am satisfied with the way it is currently, the buzz is very slight and everything else about the guitar plays fantastic. It's not really broke, so I ain't gonna try and fix it any more. I just don't want to be screwed when I get to a point when I may need more relief and I don't have the adjustment since I am all the way backed off on the truss rod.

Thanks for your help!

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