RiffRaff Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 Hello all! First time writing to the forum but I've browsed here for info before. Anyway, I picked up a sweet 1987 S-800 for $60 off craigslist (gotta love CL!). I've been wracking my brain trying to identify this trem system! I've found info saying that they came with one of three, a Steinberger, a Floyd Rose, or something called an Epiphone Bennder (yes, two "N's") or Bendmaster (?). My bridge has absolutely no branding on it, completely blank except for JINAH stamped on the trem block. I know it isn't a Stein (no locking switch), or a Floyd Rose (they branded everything!), so it must be this Bennder thing (???). Any ideas? And where could I possibly find a trem bar fot it? Thanks in advance! Here's some pics... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinTheHood Posted November 1, 2011 Share Posted November 1, 2011 Yep, its a Epiphone Bennder tremolo. Westone called them Bendmasters and Floyd Rose wanted a piece of the pie so they sued Epiphone for the patend because of the locking system. Some models will actually say "Licensed by Floyd Rose" on them. But they arent a Floyd Rose at all. No idea about where to find a trem arm for it. IIRC, they had an unthreaded base with one or two inverted rings (notches) to act as a type of snap-lock system. I believe that the nut would compress a couple tabs into the ringed notches to hold it in place. I'm pretty sure that is how they worked. I got rid of by Bennder years ago in place of a Floyd Rose. Also, it think your guitar is a 1988. The headstock pic didnt load. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiffRaff Posted November 2, 2011 Author Share Posted November 2, 2011 I'm pretty sure it's an 87... the serial is 71011364, so wouldn't that be October of 1987? And I think they did the elongated "hockey-stick" headstock in 1988, mine is the shorter rounded one... stupid pic! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinTheHood Posted November 2, 2011 Share Posted November 2, 2011 You are correct. 1988 was the elongated Explorer headstock. I wasnt sure from the pic, but that would be a 1989, and the S-800 was discontinued by then. Late 1986-1987 should be the Jackson-type pointed headstock. I have a 1987 S-500 with that headstock. Since your pic doesnt seem to show the Epiphone logo at the end of the headstock like the modern Explorer-type, I am going to assume yours has the old-style scripted logo, string trees and no truss cover? I was under the impression that particular headstock was early 1986. They appear to be leftovers from the late Matsumoku era...or at least the tooling seems to be. I havent nailed down a date for those yet and I've never seen a S-800 with that headstock. Its usually S-200, 300 & 400s. Those headstocks are a bit of a mystery still. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiffRaff Posted November 2, 2011 Author Share Posted November 2, 2011 Ok I fixed the headstock pic. Yea, mine is an 87... if I have my chronology right, the 86's had the pointed headstock that year until Jackson threatened to sue them over the design, hence the 87, with the pointy end removed and rounded. These continued for 87 and 88 and then they elongated the headstock in 89, giving them the "hockey-stick" name. That was the last headstock design before they discontinued them in I believe 1992. Do you know if Westone's used the same trem bar as mine by any chance? I have a feeling this thing is gonna be a bee-atch to find! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiffRaff Posted November 3, 2011 Author Share Posted November 3, 2011 Ok Westone used the same trem on a lot of their models. But it seems like coming up with a trem arm from one of those is even harder than my Epi! Arrrggghhh!!! I'm just gonna grind down a Floyd arm and MAKE it fit!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morkolo Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 My brother has the same tremolo in his 80's Bc Rich Warlock, I just hope you have better luck with it than what he does. I don't find the one he has any better than a Strat tremolo, no where near in the league of tuning stability as a good Floyd. He has 5 springs in his which I think is overkill, but that seems to work for him. But you could be lucky and have a good one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinTheHood Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 Ok I fixed the headstock pic. Yea, mine is an 87... if I have my chronology right, the 86's had the pointed headstock that year until Jackson threatened to sue them over the design, hence the 87, with the pointy end removed and rounded. These continued for 87 and 88 and then they elongated the headstock in 89, giving them the "hockey-stick" name. That was the last headstock design before they discontinued them in I believe 1992. Do you know if Westone's used the same trem bar as mine by any chance? I have a feeling this thing is gonna be a bee-atch to find! That is the first time I've seen that particular headstock. There was a 1st gen Jackson-type that was a little narrower too. Anyway, 1988 was the elongated Explorer type. They were discontinued by 1989 and replaced with the I-Series. I've got 1986, 1988 & 1989 catalogs that show the headstock progressions. Yours is not in any of them, but I dont have a 1987 catalog.1989 was most definitely the modern Explorer type and the S-400, 500, 600, 800 & 900 were all discontinued by then. Also, my S-500 happens to be a 1986, not a 1987 like I thought, but I've seen guitars that claimed to be 87's with the pointed head. So now I have to reconfigure my S-Series headstock guide. Thanks for bringing this guitar here. Another little piece of the puzzle comes to light. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinTheHood Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 My brother has the same tremolo in his 80's Bc Rich Warlock, I just hope you have better luck with it than what he does. I don't find the one he has any better than a Strat tremolo, no where near in the league of tuning stability as a good Floyd. He has 5 springs in his which I think is overkill, but that seems to work for him. But you could be lucky and have a good one. Yeah, man. They are basically oversized strat-type trems with fine tuners on them and a locknut on the neck. I hated mine and ditched it for a floyd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiffRaff Posted November 3, 2011 Author Share Posted November 3, 2011 It took some doing but I got mine set up pretty good. It's at about a 1/4 straight float with the springs pretty much torqued all the way down. I locked down the nut and do all the tuning from the bridge, which seems to work pretty well. Since I haven't had a chance to bend it (with no trem arm!) I don't know how well it will stay tuned but it does ok with the stretches. So could anyone recommend a decent Floyd or maybe a Kahler that I could swap up to without having to do any (or very little!) cutting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinTheHood Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 I put on a "licensed by" Floyd Rose Speed Loader trem. Its the kind that you dont have to cut the ball ends off of the strings. They almost install without hassel. You will have to drill out the current bridge screw holes to drop in the Floyd inserts. The centers of the Bennder are about 1/8" closer together than the Floyd so you will have to do a little measuring. They almost line up, but not quite. Anyway, the Bennder bridge has screws that go directly in to the body, whereas the Floyd had bolts that thread in to metal inserts, so they require a wider hole. Also, when you drill out the holes, be careful of the paint. It will chip off very easily around the edges. The poly is really thick and brittle. And dont switch out the locknut. The Floyd locknut screws do not line up with the current Bennder locknut screw holes. On my S-500, I had one screw that lined up with the currents holes and the other screw hits the edge of the truss route. Needless to say, my locknut is held on with only one screw. I dont do any crazy trem work or anything so its not a problem for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiffRaff Posted November 3, 2011 Author Share Posted November 3, 2011 Since you've had experience with the swap, I'm gonna defer to your opinion... do you think this would work? Licensed Floyd Rose Locking Tremolo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinTheHood Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 Its a licensed Floyd so I would assume so. But seeing that it is only $18USD makes me a little leary and it doesnt give the center to center bridge post spacing, which is what you need to know. The one I put on has a 2 7/8" center to center spacing. So I believe that the current Bennder spacing is 2 3/4". You should only have to drill each hole 1/16" to the outside of the current center. Here is the trem that I bought. http://www.guitarfet...stem_p_260.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiffRaff Posted November 3, 2011 Author Share Posted November 3, 2011 Its a licensed Floyd so I would assume so. But seeing that it is only $18USD makes me a little leary and it doesnt give the center to center bridge post spacing, which is what you need to know. The one I put on has a 2 7/8" center to center spacing. So I believe that the current Bennder spacing is 2 3/4". You should only have to drill each hole 1/16" to the outside of the current center. Here is the trem that I bought. http://www.guitarfet...stem_p_260.html Thanks for the link... I think this is exactly the arm I need... 5mm Push-in Tremolo Arm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinTheHood Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 For $4 I guess its worth a shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiffRaff Posted November 3, 2011 Author Share Posted November 3, 2011 For $4 I guess its worth a shot. Yea, figured what the hell. I know one of the generic Floyds with the screw-on bushing is a good deal larger than the fitting on my S-800 and this is like the smallest I've seen, so giving it a shot. Dude... I just noticed that you're in Detroit... I'm right near New Baltimore! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinTheHood Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 Yea, figured what the hell. I know one of the generic Floyds with the screw-on bushing is a good deal larger than the fitting on my S-800 and this is like the smallest I've seen, so giving it a shot. Dude... I just noticed that you're in Detroit... I'm right near New Baltimore! I'm actually about a mile and a half north of Detroit in the Ferndale area, but I like to keep it simple. I used to live up in Richmond for awhile and would go to Anchor Bay Aquarium in New Baltimore for fish supplies sometimes. Its small, but its a great little shop. I really like it up that way, but the commute was tiring. They really built up the whole 23 mile road area. I remember when it was pretty much just a Ram's Horn and a Meijer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morkolo Posted November 3, 2011 Share Posted November 3, 2011 Thanks for the link... I think this is exactly the arm I need... 5mm Push-in Tremolo Arm I'm pretty sure that's the same arm that was on my brother's guitar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiffRaff Posted November 3, 2011 Author Share Posted November 3, 2011 I'm pretty sure that's the same arm that was on my brother's guitar. Thanks Mork! We'll know in three to five days! LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phredderico Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 Wish I'd seen this a few days ago. I just bought a replacement arm for a S900 I'm working on here: http://www.axcessories.com/ I'm in Orlando, he's up the road in Pensacola, came rather quick. Wondering if someone can give me a hint on how to restring the Bennder? I can't seem to get the string-ball to catch in the back of the bridge. Any clue? This is the first one I've encountered that isn't a cut and string like the old Floyds. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinTheHood Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 The Bennder should be a string-through. You load the strings throught the tremolo block in the back of the guitar under the back plate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiffRaff Posted November 5, 2011 Author Share Posted November 5, 2011 Wish I'd seen this a few days ago. I just bought a replacement arm for a S900 I'm working on here: http://www.axcessories.com/ I'm in Orlando, he's up the road in Pensacola, came rather quick. Wondering if someone can give me a hint on how to restring the Bennder? I can't seem to get the string-ball to catch in the back of the bridge. Any clue? This is the first one I've encountered that isn't a cut and string like the old Floyds. Thanks! Best way I've found is to restring with the backplate off. That way you know the string balls are properly seated in the trem block. Also makes it easier to adjust the springs should you need to, and you probably will. Also make sure to back off the fine tuners as they have a tendency to lock down as you wind the new strings. Post some pics of your 900! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiffRaff Posted November 8, 2011 Author Share Posted November 8, 2011 Just to update... I received the above-mentioned trem arm yesterday and it fit perfectly! Thanks to RTH for turning me on to the site! I now have a complete and beautiful S-800! Oh... and my friend picked up a 2007 LP Junior in classic sunburst for $45 the other day... gotta love craigslist! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinTheHood Posted November 8, 2011 Share Posted November 8, 2011 Awesome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FicklePickle Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 (edited) On 11/3/2011 at 7:18 AM, RobinTheHood said: I put on a "licensed by" Floyd Rose Speed Loader trem. Its the kind that you dont have to cut the ball ends off of the strings. They almost install without hassel. You will have to drill out the current bridge screw holes to drop in the Floyd inserts. The centers of the Bennder are about 1/8" closer together than the Floyd so you will have to do a little measuring. They almost line up, but not quite. Anyway, the Bennder bridge has screws that go directly in to the body, whereas the Floyd had bolts that thread in to metal inserts, so they require a wider hole. Also, when you drill out the holes, be careful of the paint. It will chip off very easily around the edges. The poly is really thick and brittle. And dont switch out the locknut. The Floyd locknut screws do not line up with the current Bennder locknut screw holes. On my S-500, I had one screw that lined up with the currents holes and the other screw hits the edge of the truss route. Needless to say, my locknut is held on with only one screw. I dont do any crazy trem work or anything so its not a problem for me. I might have the same speed loader on my S-200 that was given to me by an in-law years ago. It has a Washburn 600-T trem with Mfg. Under Floyd Rose Pats. stamped on it. The strings on it run through the “tubes” that sit below the fine tuners (parallel to the body). They then come out under covers with 2mm hex screws. Is this the correct way to run the strings? I’m a newb and have searched and watched hours of videos of folks changing real FR systems and they don’t do it this way. The in-law that gave it to me is gone, so that’s why I can’t ask him. Thanks in advance. Edited October 13, 2020 by FicklePickle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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