Question about fake book usage

[RudyH]

I have a question about using a fake book: If it's "for C instruments", does that mean that the music is written for the C major scale? Thank you.

[albertjohn]

What's a fake book?

 

As for keys. I used to play the trombone at school which is in Bb. So when I played a "C" it would be a Bb on a piano. Many brass and woodwind instruments are Bb. No idea why but I'm sure someone will know.

[Thermionik]

Fake books tend to be in a standard key - just checked mine and yes - it's in C. Makes for easier transposing, I guess. I am not too hot at transposing on the fly, so tend to go through it beforehand, but there is usually a key that makes way more sense than the written one, for sure.

 

I actually 'fess to cheating - I have a circular slide-rule gizmo from Roland that transposes for you - you rotate the outer wheel to the written key, the inner wheel to the desired key and just read off the chords you need.

 

Fake books are a great trick..... just don't tell the paying punters.

[L5Larry]

I have a question about using a fake book: If it's "for C instruments"' date=' does that mean that the music is written for the C major scale? Thank you.[/quote']

 

No, this does not mean that every song is in the key of "C" or "C" major scale. It means that the song is written out in standard music notation based around "Concert Pitch" (tuned to "A"=440 hz). Guitars are tuned to what is known as "Concert Pitch", which means when you play "C" (also known as "C Natural") on a guitar, it equals a "C" on the piano. A "Natural" tone played on any instrument will equal the exact same "Natural" note on any other instrument.

 

As alberjohn stated above, some instruments are "voiced" to different keys, many, as he states, to Bb. I believe this was done to create natural harmonies without have to rewrite the entire score.

 

Here's my post from the original thread:

http://forums.gibson.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=8130

 

The "fake book" was invented for improvisational music, such as jazz. It gives you treble clef notation of the melody line, with guitar chords or chord blocks over the staff. Some have lyrics, some don't, depends on the song and the book. Their intended use, as in jazz, is to give you a general "feel" for the song and melody, and allow you to improvise over this, as opposed to piano sheet music, or a "real book", that tells you every little note to play and when.

 

You will want the "C" version, as this is the key which all standard music notation and music theory is based. As stated above, certain brass and woodwind instruments are "voiced" to other keys, generally for harmony purposes, but stringed instruments such as piano and guitar tuned "natural" or to "concert pitch" are all based around middle C.

 

The fake book is more associated to piano type sheet music than to guitar music notation. This is not TAB, it is staff. If you have had no formal music training it will take some time and effort to learn to read, but once you get the hang of it, your on your way.

 

I hope this helps, I've reread my response so many times, I think I've confused myself.

[RudyH]

Thank you L5Larry! I missed seeing your Saturday post. I really appreciate it. I prefer staff to tab because it communicates better to me. I think I can go out and get a fake book that makes sense for me and try it. I just wanted to be sure to understand the concepts first. I've gotten some staff music and tried playing it on guitar and thought "Egad! This can't be right!" only to find out that the music was written for some transposition that is not identified in the music or time signatures. Knowing what key the music is written in helps a lot in resolving such misunderstandings.

[albertjohn]

Thanks L5Larry. Very informative. I'd never heard the term "fake book" before.

 

Nik, why is it cheating? I transpose songs all the time for myself and my singing partner Liz, usually with a capo. I'm a shape man myself so any tool which makes a C# barre, an open A is OK in my book.

 

I'm a hankerin' after having a go at a couple of Plant/Krauss covers and we'll be a transposin' quite a bit with these I can tell you.

[L5Larry]

I am not too hot at transposing on the fly' date=' so tend to go through it beforehand, but there is usually a key that makes way more sense than the written one, for sure.[/quote']

 

That's why they're called "fake books". They are generally someone's interpretation of a "famous" version of the song, and certain keys work better for specific instruments, either tonally or fingering wise. I don't know a guitar player in the world that would purposesly write or play a song in "Eb", but piano players and composers seem to love that key. If you call a song off on the bandstand in "B", the horn section will give you the major stink-eye, they'll want it in Bb or C.

 

Especially in the jazz and blues fields, song keys are always moved around for the "featured" players. As "E", "A", and "D" are thought of as guitar keys, the horn section would want to do those same songs in "F", "G", "Bb" and "C". The best common ground seems to be "C" & "G". I hate playing in the key of "F" because the only place you have on the neck for creative chording and chord "substitutions" is around the 8th fret. In "G" you have the 3rd and the 10th fret positions, In "C" you have the 3rd and the 8th. So it's nice to have a key where you can easily reach 1st and 2nd position chords, but when working with other instruments or vocalists, it's not always your choice, or if you know a thousand chords, it doesn't matter.

 

As albertjohn states above, the reason most of us will most often have to transpose a song into a different key is for the vocalist. In types of music played with "cowboy chords" (please no hate mail, that's just what they're called in the biz), first position chords played with open strings, a capo works fine for most key changes. In blues, swing and jazz combo music, the types of chords generally used are referred to as "rhythm chords" or "inside chords". The formations of these type chords contain no open strings and are usually played using only the middle four strings of the guitar. Using these types of chords makes it very easy to transpose the key of a song just by moving your chord pattern to a different place on the neck.

 

Another thing that will go a long way to helping transposition, and understanding a lot of music theory in general, is to think of music, whether it be chords, chord patterns or harmonies, as numbers. Music is nothing but math, all notes, chords or progressions can be explained as a numerical value, or a series of numbers or equations. A very simple explanation of this is the 12 bar blues pattern. A standard 12 bar blues can be described as a 1-4-5, meaning the chord structure is comprised of the first, fourth and fifth tones of whatever key you want to play it in. A 1-4-5 in "E" would use E, A, B as your chords roots. Similarly a 1-4-5 in "C" would use C, F, G. So you can play a 12 bar 1-4-5 blues progression in any key that is called for. This number system can get somewhat complicated, but always works. Just define the chord pattern as a series of numbers of the tonal scale, and play it in whatever key you want to, or need to.

 

Sorry to bore you, I could write for days on this subject, but I'll shut up now. That wasn't really too far "off-topic" was it.

[Thermionik]

Yeah - careful L5Larry. Some wiseacre will be along and tell you that the covers of your book are too far apart.

 

They crack me up - quoting Bierce but probably never having read him

 

But you go on mate - There's many on here would benefit from some insight into basic stuff like that, after all, it's the grist of the fretting mill from which we make the bagels and donuts we call music.

 

And Albertjohn - transposing is not cheating. What I meant was that when I need to transpose anything other than what we call I/II/IV/V or Tonic/Supertonic/Sub-Dominant/Dominant on the fly, I get tripped up pretty quick and have to whip out my little magic wheel to see where I am - can't do it in my head like I used to.....

 

However - this is how I get round it when improvising - I remember Dizzy Gillespie, who said:

 

ANY note will fit in to ANY chord.....

.....if you play it like you mean it.

[albertjohn]

Sorry for the hijack RudyH.

 

L5Larry and Nik - you chaps carry on. I'm finding this fascinating.

 

I'm currently working out - mainly by ear and shapes - Let Your Loss Be Your Lesson from Raising Sand by Alison Krauss and Robert Plant which has lots of inside chords As Ds and Es. Great fun.

[SRV-Zeppelin]

Wow, Larry's totally on top of the guitar theory! I've taught piano for 4 years but I don't know a thing about guitar theory...

[surfpup]

ANY note will fit in to ANY chord.....

.....if you play it like you mean it.

 

And if it doesn't, bend the s**t out of it until it does!

 

Nice job, Larry, on the basic theory. Makes sense to me, and I am "theoretically" retarded!

[L5Larry]

Thanks guys, I'm glad you found my ramblings at least interesting, if not somewhat educational or useful.

[Thermionik]

L5Larry - you said.....

 

"Sorry to bore you, I could write for days on this subject, but I'll shut up now. That wasn't really too far "off-topic" was it."

 

Well:

[1] You ain't boring.

[2] You ain't written another peep about it.

[3] It was right ON-topic, it being about fake book use.

 

So - carry on - those of us who want to read will, those who don't, won't.

 

Here's a seed for you.....

Augmented/Diminished and inversion in general.

[albertjohn]

L5Larry - you said.....

 

"Sorry to bore you' date=' I could write for days on this subject, but I'll shut up now. That wasn't really too far "off-topic" was it.[/color']"

 

Well:

[1] You ain't boring.

[2] You ain't written another peep about it.

[3] It was right ON-topic, it being about fake book use.

 

So - carry on - those of us who want to read will, those who don't, won't.

 

Here's a seed for you.....

Augmented/Diminished and inversion in general.

 

+1

 

Count me in for a lesson on Augmented/Diminished etc when you have the time......I love it when you talk dirty!

 

The Alison Krauss song (see above) and my foray into Room 335 have been real eye openers although, as I have said, I'm much more of a shape man and used tab for Room 335. I'd love to know a bit more about the theory.

 

And the added bonus is I'm playing my 335 just about every day now and really beginning to gel with it.

[Notes_Norton]

Music is weird... but we like it.

 

Here is the way I've heard it.

 

A fake book is called a fake book because only the melody line, chords, lyrics and sometimes other minimal information is printed in the book. The background parts, counter-melodies, bass line, harmony parts, rhythm and other musical parts of the song are missing. Therefore, the person playing out of the fake book plays the melody and "fakes" the background parts.

 

Fake books usually come in 3 "flavors", C, Bb and Eb. These are for C, Bb, and Eb instruments and have nothing to do with the keys of the songs in the books.

 

The C fake book is for piano, guitar and other instruments in "Concert" key. A C on the piano is a C on the guitar, a Bb on the piano is a Bb on a guitar, and so on.

 

A C-melody sax (no longer produced) is a C instrument, when you play a Bb on the piano, you must play a Bb on the C Melody sax to play the same note -- no problem.

 

My Tenor sax is a Bb instrument. When a Bb is played on the piano, I must play a C on my tenor in order for it to be the same note.

 

My Alto sax is an Eb instrument. When Bb is played on the piano, I must play a G on my alto in order for it to be the same note.

 

Why is this done?

 

The short answer is I don't have to learn one fingering on the alto for a Bb, another on the tenor for a Bb and another on the C Melody for a Bb. By transposing the music, I can play all three saxophones (plus the Bb soprano, Eb baritone, Bb bass, etc.) using the same fingerings for the notes.

 

I think this started with violins, violas and cello family instruments back in the early days of music.

 

Of course this method creates its own set of problems. If there is no Bb music around, and I'm playing with a guitarist or pianist out of a C fake book, in order to play the same notes, I must mentally add two sharps or subtract two flats from the key signature and also play every note one note higher than written. I can do this on the tenor. I cannot sightread and transpose on the alto - I play the tenor in difficult situations like that.

 

Insights and incites by Notes