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Why is this Bird' sounding so sick .. ?


EuroAussie

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It sounds like every other Hbird I've played. Which is why I don't own one. I dont think there's a thing wrong with it, it's just not your cup of tea or mine either. I've always felt the same way about j45s too. Which is largely why I wrote off Gibson when looking for my first high end guitar. After owning a few Martins a stranger introduced me to a Advanced Jumbo and I was hooked! But anyway, I never thought anything was wrong with the Hbirds I played or j45s, just not my ear flavor. But ALOT of people do like it. So if it appears to be fine and the strings are fresh, maybe it's just that you flat out don't like a hummingbird.

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It sounds like every other Hbird I've played. Which is why I don't own one. I dont think there's a thing wrong with it, it's just not your cup of tea or mine either. I've always felt the same way about j45s too. Which is largely why I wrote off Gibson when looking for my first high end guitar. After owning a few Martins a stranger introduced me to a Advanced Jumbo and I was hooked! But anyway, I never thought anything was wrong with the Hbirds I played or j45s, just not my ear flavor. But ALOT of people do like it. So if it appears to be fine and the strings are fresh, maybe it's just that you flat out don't like a hummingbird.

Maybe...But I don't know that the 'typical' HB sound is so dark.

 

I think what he is referring too is that "wet noodle" tone that a lot of guitar seem to have. I don't think THAT sound is typical of any particular type or model.

 

I have heard this on a lot of higher-end new Martins as well.

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Maybe...But I don't know that the 'typical' HB sound is so dark.

 

I think what he is referring too is that "wet noodle" tone that a lot of guitar seem to have. I don't think THAT sound is typical of any particular type or model.

 

I have heard this on a lot of higher-end new Martins as well.

 

 

Well I can't disagree with that. Another thing that came to mind was the OPs playing style. But nobody else said anything so I didn't either. I'm fairly confident a heavy handed bluegrass picker like me Could pull a little more sound out of it. Not knocking his playing at all, but sometimes a new tight guitar needs a little extra oomph

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Well I can't disagree with that. Another thing that came to mind was the OPs playing style. But nobody else said anything so I didn't either. I'm fairly confident a heavy handed bluegrass picker like me Could pull a little more sound out of it. Not knocking his playing at all, but sometimes a new tight guitar needs a little extra oomph

I know what you mean...I don't often use a pick, and hearing others like "heavy handed bluegrass players" dig into a guitar...a d-28 for example...pull out some 'brights' that don't just pop out on thier own when I play it.

 

He actually is a really good layer, having seen some of his stuff posted. What he was playing there was more for demonstrating what the guitar sounded like...and I felt I could tell easily. That "wet noodle" deal.

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Well I love the tone of the Hummingbird, both vintage ones and the current versions and have played many very good ones. But this one just was not what I heard in many other birds, especially TV Birds. The guitar needs to be balanced, you cant have the three top strings sounding bright and sparky while the bottom three sounding dead and lifeless.

 

I also played that guitar pretty hard afterwards, but it just actually sounded even worse as teh contrast bettween the top and bottom was even greater. Played some bluegrass strumming and the top end just rung out like hell, while the bottom end was just totally dead. I mean its impossible to get anything out of those bass strings.

 

When I have time I might get back in there and ask the boys to try out a new set of strings.

 

btw: if you have time please take a listen this recording of BobbyB's rendition of Bron Y Aur Stomp and listen to the bass notes (hope you dont mind Bobby). They still have the classic Gibson 'thump' but the tone is much richer and projected, unlike the spaghetti tone that comes out of the bass notes on this particualar Bird'

 

 

 

It sounds like every other Hbird I've played. Which is why I don't own one. I dont think there's a thing wrong with it, it's just not your cup of tea or mine either. I've always felt the same way about j45s too. Which is largely why I wrote off Gibson when looking for my first high end guitar. After owning a few Martins a stranger introduced me to a Advanced Jumbo and I was hooked! But anyway, I never thought anything was wrong with the Hbirds I played or j45s, just not my ear flavor. But ALOT of people do like it. So if it appears to be fine and the strings are fresh, maybe it's just that you flat out don't like a hummingbird.

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A proper height saddle (much better if made of bone instead of tusq) and a new set of strings, can considerably improve the sound.

Recently I swapped the tusq saddle on my J200 with a taller one made of bone, the results were very impressive, much more volume with a significant increase in low frequency.

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Though I like the BobbyB's piece, I can't see how it should be useful as A/B in this dialog. It's wrapped in effects and though the deep end rings with plenty of bass-vitamins, this - as I hear it - isn't an example of the typical Hummingbird voice. I guess what you're trying to tell here is that the Prague-Bird wouldn't be able to provide the same strength. I don't know and won't advocate for a guitar I haven't tried (besides I'm aware your good ears).

 

In my opinion a better comparison would be this. Check it out -

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[/media][media]

Excuse me, I'm using this post an exercising ground for video posting. I have placed many videos in the past, but for some reason haven't been able for a long time.

The system fails me and it drives me nuts. . . . .

 

 

you have to put the link in the middle there is nothing on yours

 

http://test

 

reply to this post and you will see the coding

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you have to put the link in the middle there is nothing on yours

 

http://test

 

reply to this post and you will see the coding

 

Thank you, I know Greg. But the video just doesn't jump over on the page though it's cearly there on the 'sketch-board'. Really annoying.

Btw. the test-link sends me nowhere -

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Well I love the tone of the Hummingbird, both vintage ones and the current versions and have played many very good ones. But this one just was not what I heard in many other birds, especially TV Birds. The guitar needs to be balanced, you cant have the three top strings sounding bright and sparky while the bottom three sounding dead and lifeless.

 

I also played that guitar pretty hard afterwards, but it just actually sounded even worse as teh contrast bettween the top and bottom was even greater. Played some bluegrass strumming and the top end just rung out like hell, while the bottom end was just totally dead. I mean its impossible to get anything out of those bass strings.

 

When I have time I might get back in there and ask the boys to try out a new set of strings.

 

btw: if you have time please take a listen this recording of BobbyB's rendition of Bron Y Aur Stomp and listen to the bass notes (hope you dont mind Bobby). They still have the classic Gibson 'thump' but the tone is much richer and projected, unlike the spaghetti tone that comes out of the bass notes on this particualar Bird'

 

 

 

Fair Enough sir. I was kinda worried you would take take my posts as being a little aggressive. not meant to be at all [biggrin] Glad you took it all in good humor. Keep us posted I'm curious as to what a string change will bring. Maybe a jangly set of 80/20s will wake it up

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Well EA it is clear that that guitar is not for you and perhaps you should just look forward at finding one that suits and the sound that you are looking for. I am sure it is exactly what someone else is looking for and it will find a good and loving home. All of the regulars here on the forum know that each guitar is individual and no two are exactly the same sound, burst, different wood etc. New Strings may do the trick, who knows? Perhaps the ball end is not snugged up to the bridge pins, there are alot of variables.

JM

 

Im not sure about that.. Ive seen and played many Gibsons lately... and its just not Hummingbirds with a dead tone.. the J200s have been terrible.. L&M and a few others in Calgary here have a wide range of dead horses hanging on the wall.. ( so something changed in the Build ) .. New strings or Old strings.. these should have more Chime to them.. not just a Thud.. I havent been able to stuggle up to a New Gibson for quite sometime now.. it almost sounds like there made of wet wood.. Not only L&M guitars are that way.. Ive noticed it at many dealers that house these. Ive mentioned this before in other threads.

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My Keb Mo model was slightly duller out of the case on the first day, but I'd bought a "small-box" guitar, even the name was 'Bluesmaster' and the sound suggested it was a 'blues' guitar.... a few months down the line and my blues box is now a general guitar (albeit a 12-fretter) and sounds great for many styles. I do believe some of these guitars have a waking-up period.

 

While the model EA played mightn't have 'struck a chord' with him (apologies, I should be ashamed of saying that ;) ) my bet is that tight rubbery bottom end would make a nice guitar to record with. The compression and thud in its lower end at the minute would make it fairly easy to record with. While I might prefer to pick another one for myself if they had the choice of a few and I would see if any were already awake, I'm not convinced the guitar is dead. I have had masterbuilt strings that are a lot more muted in the bass myself and thought something was off for the first couple of days...

 

My best guess is a few people playing it in the coming weeks that it's in the shop and a string-change or two and the guitar will sing.

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When I got my H'bird TV - it was 4 months old. It continued to open up for a year. If I had to guess here, EU, I'd say the H'bird Standard you tried was just out of the box new and needed some combination of new strings and giving the wood a chance to build up it's sympathetic response range. Maybe go back in a month to see if a little playing by other customs has warmed it up some.

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I think there are a lot of good clues here. If the plain strings are crisp and clear and the wound ones aren't then there is a problem with the strings. The clue here is the wound strings are dead. Why you ask? The windings could be bad or they could be dirty or a thousand other reasons. If the guitar was a dud then the whole guitar would sound bad not just certain strings.

 

If you had the opportunity to go to a Gibson Homecoming you would know that Gibson dries each and every piece of wood it uses to 6% moisture content. This is very easy to do and very easy to measure. Why 6%? Because the wood is stable at an enviroment of 42% humidity. Why 42%? Because all studies point to that being the average that folks like to keep the houses. Any drier and your skin dries out and your dog scratches. Any higher and your hair get frizzy and you get mold between your toes. It's all very simple, really.

 

Now if a guitar goes to a place drier that 42% the top cracks. If it's any wetter then 42% the top gets heavy and the guitar sounds heavy like it's full of socks.

 

In this case the plain strings sound fine. The top and the wood are just fine. If the wound strings sound dead it's 'cuz they are.

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A couple of days ago I spent 3 hours at Wildwood Guitars near Denver - I had my guy pull just about every Hummingbird and SJ, with a handful of J-185s out of the warehouse for me to play and try - I'll bet I played over 30 guitars - and except for two out of more than a dozen Hummingbirds they all sounded just fine to very good - the two that did not, judging from the stick in the cases, I was probably the first to play them. It is very dry out here, but I'm sure the warehouse is very closely climate controlled. If any of those birds had as pretty a cherry red on them that Frederick's has, I probably would have bought it. As it happens I casually asked if there where any Jackson Browne Model 1s (w/o pu)in the warehouse, there was, and that's the one that came home with me, but there is an SJ and an HB there that were swell candidates too.

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I am sure it is the strings. Unfortunately, the strings Gibson is putting on these days tend to do this VERY quickly. they look brand new, but after just a little bit of playing and testing, you get the rubber band sound. it's quite frustrating. I have taken up the habit of restringing the new ones when they arrive at the shop with something different if I have the time. If it can't be done immediately, I do it as soon as possible. I have seen it with so many guitars that I am SURE this is the problem you ran across. a nice set of PB will do the trick. :)

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  • 8 years later...

Hi guys

 

Apologies, as I know this is a an old thread but I'm glad I've found this. I have a 2013 HB Modern Classic. I'm hoping this is the exact guitar you're playing. I an awful experience with mine and I am ready to give up, sadly. From the off, I noticed that the action was quite high. Along with the signature fretboard glue coming loose underneath the pickguard, I managed to get some advice and Gibson workshop in Manchester UK took a look. They fixed the pickguard, checked the action and changed the strings. Said there was no problem with action but I wasn't convinced.

Like any player, I tried numerous gauge strings and settled on 11s/12s. Sometimes Martin LS PB, Nanoweb light etc. Continued to have the same problem. Took it to be looked at by luthiers who have set up several of my acoustic guitars. They confirmed the action was very high and were actually very surprised from this Gibson. 

They took a few off and replaced strings- D'addario 12s. It has come back with an even worse sound 'low E sounds dull' and strings are buzzing. Luther said have to be careful with these guitars as they're known for not reacting well to workmanship. I've given it 6 months. Good job we are in a lockdown as I've had alot more time to experiment with this guitar and I'm ready to give in. My EJ200 that cost £200 pound sounds and plays miles better. I record with a guy who repairs guitars and he said this guitar is cursed. Guess what ? The fretboard is beginning to peel off again.

Is this a common problem with Gibson Modern Classics 2012/13 ? I know another artist who has had a similar experience and now plays a Martin D-18.

Thanks

 

Mick in the UK

 

Liverpool actually, home of the Beatles 🙂

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3 hours ago, Michael Dunne said:

Apologies, as I know this is a an old thread but I'm glad I've found this. I have a 2013 HB Modern Classic. I'm hoping this is the exact guitar you're playing. 🙂

Simply sounds as if there's no future for you and that particularly (quite far out) Hummingbird, , , maybe not any Bird at all.

Do remember they are spezial guitars and have strengths as weaknesses. Why did you pick it in the first place - did you try other examples, , , other Gibsons, , , , high-end acoustics. . . 

Hey Mick - keep us updated

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From what I gather,  you didn't buy this H'Bird new in 2013 seven years ago.  So, when you bought it  Used - did it have these problems?  I assume so, because you state 'From the off I noticed the action was quite high'.  Maybe previous owner didn't take care of it - kept it in his trunk!   (Boot?)   You also state new strings are more  dull and started to buzz.  Buzzing with high action - maybe it is cursed !         As you know, there are specific 'standards' for string clearance per Gibson.  Both the Gibson shop and your luthier should not have returned the guitar to you until they either adjusted it to those specifications or told you why they couldn't (neck reset, etc.).   You don't mention either shop tweaking the torque nut.  Did they?  Since you brought it to them because of high action - they should have measured the action after they corrected it and provided you with a written confirmation of the height of the strings.    As far as the pickguard  - the Gibson authorized shop may have just stuck a small piece of double sided tape under it. That won't work in half the cases.  Since it didn't - it needs to be removed completely and   straightened and re-glued.  It's not rocket science if that is what these shops are in business for.   Not sure how long you've had this H'bird, or if the tone is good - but I'm glad your giving it 6 months.  G'Luck.

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