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New SJ200 problem

#1 User is offline   Mr Clean 

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 01:52 AM

Hi there.

Has anyone else out there had major problems with a brand new Gibson acoustic?

I recently spent my life savings on a gorgeous new SJ200.
I played it for a few weeks, and it sounded great, but I was really struggling with the high action on the guitar so I took it to my guitar tech to get it set up.
Then the bombshell I didn't expect to hear.....
He told me that the neck had been poorly set at the factory and that he could lower the action as much as he could now, but that I would definitely encounter problems in the future.
I was completely gutted, but seeing as I'm a complete novice in such matters I took the guitar to 2 other respected luthiers, but they said exactly the same thing.
I took the guitar back to my own tech and he lowered the saddle to make the guitar playable. Now the guitar play OK (though the action is still quite high) but there is now barely any break angle over the saddle to the bridge, and if I strum hard I sometimes get a 'sitar' effect sound.
So the guitar was sent back to the dealer. They looked at it and informed me that Gibson wouldn't re set the neck as there is nothing wrong with it. They also said that they had loads of Gibson acoustics in stock and that most of them don't have much of a break angle over the saddle.
I wasn't happy with this at all, so I dug my heels in and I've now been told that the guitar is being sent to Gibson for someone there to look at.
Hopefully they will act with the integrity and honesty that you associate with Gibson and sort the guitar out for me.
I'll let you know how I get on.

#2 User is offline   EuroAussie 

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 03:07 AM

Yes, i can imagine this leaving a bitter taste in the mouth, especially with something like a J-200, or any Gibson for that matter. Hope it will be sorted and you will be back playin' away and lovign the tone and playability, keep us posted !
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The Pickers 43' Gibson LG-2, 09' Furch OM 32SM (custom) , 02' Martin J-40
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#3 User is offline   duluthdan 

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 05:46 AM

I just acquired a new Jackson Browne Model 1 - and have no issues, its a rather magnificent instrument, likewise with a 2010 J-45. I am curious as to what specific observations your Luthier, and the others, made to lead them to believe the neck was "poorly set" . This seemed to reveal itself after a new lower action setup was done?
Smile Fierce !!!
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#4 User is offline   Mr Clean 

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 06:12 AM

The problem was identified before any work was done.

#5 User is offline   ParlourMan 

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 06:15 AM

Why not return the guitar before any work was done?
http://www.youtube.c...ser/TheAyeTunes

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#6 User is offline   dchristo 

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 06:16 AM

hopefully they will get your baby fixed and get it back to you soon
In GOD we trust

Dave

#7 User is offline   ryanfender 

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 06:20 AM

Unfortunately, I have seen new J-200's with poorly set necks in dealer stock in the past. The saddle was so low there wasn't any break over angle on the saddle when the action was reasonable. This is made even worse when the bridge is the four pearl ribbon variety which pushes the bridge pins away from the saddle. I played a Pete Townshed signature J-200 that was like this and it sounded like total crap. The break over angle of string over the saddle is critical for driving string energy into the top. Couldn't you just return the guitar to the dealer for another example? Hopefully, Gibson will treat you right.
Acoustics: 1990 Gibson J-200 w/ K&K Pure Mini & K&K Pure XLR preamp
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#8 User is offline   Buc McMaster 

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 06:21 AM

Welcome to the Forum. Sorry to hear of your misfortune. Does your 200 have a two or four ribbon bridge? Four ribbon bridges require a better than average neck set to be right. Any photos? I hope this is resolved to your satisfaction.........

#9 User is offline   Mr Clean 

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 06:22 AM

View PostParlourMan, on 10 April 2012 - 06:15 AM, said:

Why not return the guitar before any work was done?


I'm not a pro player, I understand that a neck reset is a major job and I will be without the guitar for some time, so I was hoping that we could just get the guitar playable.
The tech only lowered the saddle, so it wasn't anything major or irreversible.

#10 User is offline   Mr Clean 

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 06:24 AM

View PostEuroAussie, on 10 April 2012 - 03:07 AM, said:

Yes, i can imagine this leaving a bitter taste in the mouth, especially with something like a J-200, or any Gibson for that matter. Hope it will be sorted and you will be back playin' away and lovign the tone and playability, keep us posted !


I'm not bitter about it, these things happen.
What irks is the stance of the shop in saying the guitar is OK.
Hopefully Gibson will sort it and I'll have it back soon.

#11 User is offline   slimt 

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 06:29 AM

Was it a Gibson Dealer that you took the guitar too for adjusting? Or just a tech? did you buy it new? where are you located?

I wouldnt let any tech Touch any of my New guitars till the warrentees have expired.. thats just me.. it also took alot of lookng to find a luthier tech that was Good enough to do what is required on my stuff...

#12 User is offline   Mr Clean 

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 06:31 AM

View Postryanfender, on 10 April 2012 - 06:20 AM, said:

Couldn't you just return the guitar to the dealer for another example? Hopefully, Gibson will treat you right.


I'd be happy with a replacement, but the dealer is saying there is nothing wrong with the guitar. So now it's down to the folks at Gibson to help me.

At this point I wont be posting any of the names involved or any pictures of the specific guitar, just in case I have to take further action with this.
But I do have pictures, copies of all the correspondence and letters from 2 of the luthiers, just in case.

#13 User is offline   Mr Clean 

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 06:35 AM

View Postslimt, on 10 April 2012 - 06:29 AM, said:

Was it a Gibson Dealer that you took the guitar too for adjusting? Or just a tech? did you buy it new? where are you located?

I wouldnt let any tech Touch any of my New guitars till the warrentees have expired.. thats just me.. it also took alot of lookng to find a luthier tech that was Good enough to do what is required on my stuff...


The guitar was bought new.

#14 User is offline   Mr Clean 

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 06:42 AM

View PostBuc McMaster, on 10 April 2012 - 06:21 AM, said:

Welcome to the Forum. Sorry to hear of your misfortune. Does your 200 have a two or four ribbon bridge? Four ribbon bridges require a better than average neck set to be right. Any photos? I hope this is resolved to your satisfaction.........


Sorry, I'm completely non technical. What is the two or four ribbon bridge?

#15 User is offline   merseybeat1963 

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 06:43 AM

You will be bitter if they shaft you..
You should be pushing for a return/exchange not a repair..
(unless this guitar was one of many that you auditioned and it was magic).
If it was just one of those "send me a J200"..there is no reason you should stick by it unless they are forcing you to be stuck with it.
If that is the case, make sure you post who is dealer & I for one will send a complaint as well.

#16 User is offline   Buc McMaster 

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 06:47 AM

View PostMr Clean, on 10 April 2012 - 06:35 AM, said:

......I have no idea about any technical aspects of a guitar.


Learning to play guitar involves learning about guitar as well. There's a learning curve for what to look at and what to look for when purchasing a new guitar, be it factory new or a used instrument. We all have had similar experiences over the years.....I know I have! I hope this doesn't put a bad taste in your mouth for Gibson. They are largely hand built and as such there will be a few that are sub-standard now and then. Do you have any guitar playing friends with some experience that could help you understand guitar construction and what it takes to be a good one? Talk to the luthiers you've involved in the process......pick their brains. Hope it all works out in the end!

#17 User is offline   EuroAussie 

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 06:48 AM

View Postryanfender, on 10 April 2012 - 06:20 AM, said:

I played a Pete Townshed signature J-200 that was like this and it sounded like total crap.


I read once that Pete chose his J-200 because it actully sounded really flat and dead, he thought it was perfect for his machine gun strumming technique ... but maybe not the quality we all desire.. [rolleyes]
___________________________

The Big Fat Lady 02' Gibson J-150
The Squares 69' Gibson Hummingbird, 11' HB TV
The Slopeys 11' Gibson SJ (Aaron Lewis), 02' AJ
The Pickers 43' Gibson LG-2, 09' Furch OM 32SM (custom) , 02' Martin J-40
The Beater 99' Cort Earth 100
The Lonely Electric: 95' Les Paul

What we do on weekends:
http://www.reverbnat...oubleshotprague

#18 User is offline   Mr Clean 

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 06:59 AM

View PostBuc McMaster, on 10 April 2012 - 06:47 AM, said:

Learning to play guitar involves learning about guitar as well. There's a learning curve for what to look at and what to look for when purchasing a new guitar, be it factory new or a used instrument. We all have had similar experiences over the years.....I know I have! I hope this doesn't put a bad taste in your mouth for Gibson. They are largely hand built and as such there will be a few that are sub-standard now and then. Do you have any guitar playing friends with some experience that could help you understand guitar construction and what it takes to be a good one? Talk to the luthiers you've involved in the process......pick their brains. Hope it all works out in the end!




What is the two and four ribbon thing? I'm curious.

#19 User is offline   ritchie69 

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 07:04 AM

View PostMr Clean, on 10 April 2012 - 06:59 AM, said:

I'm a self taught guitarist, but I'm learning the other stuff slowly! :)

I'm more used to electric guitars and It's all this saddle and bridge stuff on acoustics that I find confusing!

What is the two and four ribbon thing? I'm curious.


the four ribbon bridge:
Posted Image

the two ribbon bridge:
Posted Image
2010 SJ-200 Custom
2011 Doves In Flight Custom Shop

#20 User is offline   BigKahune 

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Posted 10 April 2012 - 07:29 AM

.
Four ribbon bridges have the extra bling factor, and also a longer distance between the saddle and the string holes, making for a more obtuse break angle over the saddle. I have a 2 ribbon bridge on my J200 and the break angle is good. You might have to look at a few four ribbon bridge models to find one with good action and plenty of room (height) left in the saddle. I'm curious to see what Gibson has to say - good luck. Below is a pic so you can get a look at the saddle height on mine -

Posted Image
13 Gibson CS Advanced Jumbo R/Spruce..O12 Gibson Southern Jumbo TV...O11 RainSong JM-3000 12-string
11 Martin 000-15M Elderly LE......................O10 Gibson ES-359........................o10 Rickenbacker 360 12-string
09 Jackson PC-1............................................O09 Fender 52 Telecaster AVS.oO08 Gibson SJ-200 (Colosi S/P)
08 Gibson Robot SG LTD.........................ooO08 Fender Am/Dlx Stratocaster...-08 Gibson Songwriter Deluxe 12-string
08 Gibson Les Paul Push Tone......................-07 Guild F412 12-sting..............oo07 Taylor NS74ce
07 Epiphone Les Paul Ultra II.........................-98 Martin D-45VR.........................97 Guild X-700 Stuart
73 Yamaha G-55A...........................................-65 Gibson Melody Maker..............Amps: Bogner Alchemist (Head/212Cab)
Keyboard: 06 Yamaha DGX220............................................................................o Line6 Spider Jam & Micro Spider

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