Just an observation.....
Posted 10 April 2012 - 07:41 AM
forum that hopefully someone can explain. A new forum member
will post a thread about a new Gibson purchase and the guitar
has significant problems. Structural, finish, whatever.
It seems like the purchase is usually without any prior inspection
since the problem is always found after the the guitar is brought
home. Then, the blame starts to fly: poor workmanship, lack of
quality control, etc...
My question is two parts:
1. Why are so many problems with new Gibsons associated with new
2. Why are very expensive Gibson guitars never inspected by the
purchaser prior to purchase?
Posted 10 April 2012 - 08:08 AM
Posted 10 April 2012 - 08:34 AM
I am thinking ya hit the nail on the head.
"I play so rough - I stomp 'em"
Posted 10 April 2012 - 08:35 AM
And I can honestly say as a guy who didn't know that much about acoustic guitar construction or woods or any of that .
I have learned alot here and from alot of you forum members.
but I have to say I have been playing the guitar for a couple of years now and I love it .
the setup is awesome ... I enjoy it alot . And if I could pick one guitar to grow old with it would be this one.
I think it all comes down to the dealer-client relationship.
It the dealers care about the customers than they will bendover backwards to make the client happy.
if the dealer isn't interested in offering the best product to the consumer for him to comeback and purchase again then
they are pretty much not interested in taking care of the people that buy from them .
I have since purchased various other guitars from Fuller's and will continue to do so maybe till I'm old.
2007 SJ 200 TV (Andrea)
2011 Hummingbird TV (Karen-O)
2011 L200 Emmylou Harris
2012 L00 5 star
2012 J35 5 star
2012 Elvis Costello Century Of Progress
2012 J200 Golden Era Rosewood Edition (Ness)
2012 75th Anniversary J200M Special
2014 Martin 1921 000 28K Authentic
Posted 10 April 2012 - 08:56 AM
There's not that many places here that will stock the guitars for you to try. I only know of two guitars stores here and I'm in a capital city. At a push they may have an LP or an SG for you to try, on a good day they might carry a J-45, the rest is all the cheap import fodder that they actually sell a lot of and it's 90% electrics in both stores.
I've used a place several times where I have 30 days to evaluate the guitar in the comfort of my own place, to send it back I lose about 15-20 euro in shipping costs which is way way cheaper than it would cost me to get to their shop. I also have the ability to A/B it against the guitars I already own etc... so the thought of losing out 15/20 euro over what I gain in this makes it worth my while.
It's why I have often countered a "You have to try it before you buy" post with a "Yes, I'm going to try it in the comfort of my own home and see how it sounds next to all my other guitars, you won't get the peace to do that in a shop" as much as we love the bricks & mortar stores I'd say internet sales will only continue to grow.
Lets all have a wee cuddle.
Posted 10 April 2012 - 09:13 AM
Posted 10 April 2012 - 09:30 AM
And I agree about the internet sales. We're literally buying sight-unseen. I guess if I want to buy a "true vintage" model, I could have GC order me one. Beats buying it without seeing it first, but still not the same as playing a guitar several times, going back to see it a few times, thinking it over for days before buying it, but at least I can play it when it comes-in. The problem is, how many times will a store order a special guitar for you if there is no guarantee you will take it? I bought my J150 like that. However, they did contact Bozman for me and I was able to speak to someone about the exact guitar I was getting. .......My local GC has only had one "custom" J45 in all the years it's been here. The rest are standard model J45s, Hummingbirds, 185s, etc. No special models, if one wants to play one before buying it. Same applies to some Martin models. They just won't put them in the store.
Speaking of Gibbys in the store.....April 1st, GC had five Gibsons in the store. 2 Hummingbird Pros, 1 Hummingbird, 2 J45s. Yesterday, I went there to buy a keyboard (which I did. Now I have another instrument I won't be able to play) and only one of the Pros remained. Someone is obviously buying these guitars.
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Gibsons J45TV, J15, Hummingbird, Dove, Southern Jumbo Mystic, Advanced Jumbo Rosewood
Advanced Jumbo Koa, J100 Walnut
Alvarez MFA66CE Masterworks OM/Folk
Martin X Series 2016 D12X1AE Dreadnought 12-String
Regal 1944 Parlor Guitar
LAG Nylon Stringed
Oahu 1941 Squareneck Parlor Guitar
Yamaha YPG-535MM Keyboard
and a herd of ukes, banjos, strumsticks, harmonicas and dulcimers,
making me a "jack of all trades and master of none."
Posted 10 April 2012 - 10:11 AM
Posted 10 April 2012 - 10:13 AM
Posted 10 April 2012 - 10:26 AM
Indeed, I even assumed that for my second (J-45 TV). I also thought that the guitars would be inspected and set up well by the shops I was buying them from (as they are real bricks and mortar businesses too), which actually turned out to be the case. So perhaps I've just been lucky with both my particular guitars coming out of Gibson and the dealers I've been purchasing them through.
Also, you do tend to hear about the problems more than the positives, on any forum about any product.
2007 Martin 00-15
2006 Gibson Songwriter Deluxe
2004 Art & Lutherie Cedar Antique Burst
"If I had the stars from the darkest night; and the diamonds from the deepest ocean; I'd forsake them all for your sweet kiss; for that's all I'm wishin' to be ownin'"" Boots of Spanish Leather, Bob Dylan
Posted 10 April 2012 - 11:38 AM
1. Why are so many problems with new Gibsons associated with new forum members?
2. Why are very expensive Gibson guitars never inspected by the purchaser prior to purchase? ....
1) Welp, back in the day, that's how some forums started, as an extension of a company's customer service. Let's not lose sight of that - you'll find the same kind of posts on any company sponsored forum. And there are always those folks that don't have the location to go shopping in person and have no viable alternative to blind buys. Basically there are two types posting issues - the inexperienced newb buyer that hasn't done any research/homework and doesn't know what to look for, and the well-studied newb or experienced buyer stuck with an unforeseen issue.
2) A lot of these purchases are being made sight unseen. Some are made in person, but you got to know what to look for to avoid problems. And then there are those problems that can crop up after purchase from an issue that's easily overlooked, or an issue that is hidden at purchase only to pop up days or weeks later.
From what I've seen, there are far more problems coming out of Nashville/Memphis than from Bozeman. While some of these problems are Gibson's fault, having been shipped despite Gibson's Q/C efforts, a significant number of these problems can be linked to three things that are somewhat beyond Gibson's control: environmental conditions after the guitar leaves the factory; showroom mistreatment; and shop techs that hack a setup/adjustment/restring.
Posted 10 April 2012 - 12:17 PM
Posted 10 April 2012 - 12:25 PM
True, I didn't try before I bought it, but as I said in a previous post, I'm a novice in the guitar world.
When I decided to spend $3500 on a guitar, I thought I'd go for the best, Gibson.
When I received the guitar I was the happiest man alive, it looked awesome and sounded great, it was just that the action was high, which is not unusual for a new guitar.
We had a family bereavement and I didn't play the guitar for a couple of months, then I went back to it and decided that I couldn't live with the high action, so I took it to my local guitar tech to sort out, only then was the problem identified.
What I'm saying is that if I'd walked into the shop myself, I still would have purchased the same guitar, I wouldn't have spotted the neck issue.
Posted 10 April 2012 - 12:33 PM
1935 Kalamazoo KG-31
1996 Squier Japan Vista Series Jagmaster
2006 Gibson 1958 Reissue Les Paul
2008 Rickenbacker 330
2010 Gibson Advanced Jumbo
2012 Gibson Custom built L-00
2014 Gibson J-185 True Vintage
2014 Fender Baja Tele
and a small pile of other stuff.... not mentioning all of the beautiful pieces I practiced "catch and release" on!
Posted 10 April 2012 - 01:00 PM
Buyer's remorse hits these same people... about the time the 'taillights clear the curb'. THEN they see the flaws.
When making a major purchase you HAVE to go into it like a business transaction. The salesman wants to pull you into that giddiness mode. Fight that like the plague. Always, after making the 'Why should I buy THIS one?" analysis begin asking "Why SHOULDN'T I buy this one." It's the same struggle you go through when you see that the boss's wife is H-O-T!. Fight that urge to ogle. It could be deadly. Bottom line, never, NEVER smile at a salesman. Never, NEVER, look a salesman in the eye. It's easier to keep your poker face, your composure and your emotions under control.
Finally, no deal is done until the paperwork is done. Fight the urge to fall in love with the purchase until the money is right, paperwork is in order and the money changes hands.
This applies to all major purchase and marriage proposals.
I too am dumbfounded by the monthly post by a newby "I just bought an, awesome, used 'Gibson ES-5000 DLX' acoustical electric arch bottom guit tar for eleventy thousand dollars. \/ Did I pay too much?"
My only response to these guys is, "Yes."
"Fair" is never "Even" --- me again.
"... and Bob's your uncle," --- TWilson
"The closer you get to civilization, the less civilized humans become" --- me again.
"Never be afraid to try something new. Remember that the Ark was built by a lone amateur and the Titanic by a staff of highly educated, highly trained engineers." ... Jimmy John's.
Guitars = Chick Magnet
Guitar Hero = Guy Magnet
You do the math.
"If you've got time to breathe, you've got time for music," Briscoe Darling
"If it ain't got a hole, it ain't got no soul," me, TommyK
Posted 10 April 2012 - 01:32 PM
That's exactly the opposite of what that lady told me the other night!!!
This applies to all major purchase and marriage proposals.
Now you tell me!!!
Posted 10 April 2012 - 04:58 PM
A lot of good points. I would add that a lot of it has to do with a change in society AWAY from a handshake and a man's word being his word, and more toward the "what can I get away with" mentality.
I mention that, because this to me has to do with the trend AWAY from music stores, to the idea of buying straight and avoiding the middleman. As such, 'music stores' no longer feel the need to take responsibility for what they sell, and people in general no longer hold them responsible.
The internet being a great thing, it is a place to come for answers and help. But sometimes, there is no REAL person there to give or get advise from, and in some cases, the net is so good it all happens over the net from the beginning.
As has been said above, often the forums are more of an extention of CS. And often, poeple are more likely to SEEK a forum as a result of having a problem rather than if things are peachy great.
Rumors of Gibson's demise of quality may be greatly exaggerated. It may mean that Gibson sold more guitars that month than before.