onewilyfool Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Since I play solo most of the time..... http://www.omega432.com/music.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrplefty Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 What are your thoughts on the sonic differences, if any? A guy in my speech class talked about the difference in 440 vs classical hz readings, and I've been intrigued, but I haven't changed anything yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewilyfool Posted April 21, 2012 Author Share Posted April 21, 2012 It does sound a little sweeter, the lower tuning suits my voice better......not much difference...ON THE PHYSICAL PLANE......but metaphysically, who knows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duluthdan Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Is this just tuning down one whole step? Both of my Martins are down one whole step, both Gibsons half a step. I haven't been tuned to the standard missionary position for years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 I just played both tones on the site and my Gwennie here became violent and threatened to hit me if I didn't make it stop. I am going to halt my path to enlightenment right there. So long as we are all in tune, that's all that matters. 440 for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewilyfool Posted April 21, 2012 Author Share Posted April 21, 2012 Stein...I'd play 440 if we were jamming too!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stein Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Stein...I'd play 440 if we were jamming too!! I should offer the disclaimer, "as close to 440 as possible" in that case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfox14 Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 I think to most people's ears, there's no real difference between 432 vs. 440 - it's almost impossible to hear anything sonically, but that's just my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Both of my Martins are down one whole step, both Gibsons half a step. I haven't been tuned to the standard missionary position for years. I read you – had my guitars 1 or a half step down for the last 12 years. But recently I began hearing these A-note overtones (in reality G#) when taking a common G chord (in reality F#). They come from the open D-string (in reality C#) and they really get to me. The phenomenon dies somewhat down as the strings fades to normal, but when they are new it's almost impossible to handle. It's even annoying on a sub conscious sonic level if I somehow 'forget'. This is easy to tell after returning to standard tuning by capo or going further down to D where there's nothing. Is this something you recognize Duluth ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 The sound samples were a bit of an odd choice to demonstrate the difference. It wasn't until I listened to the sine wave tones that it was obvious how much difference there was. Since proper pitch is a moving target when you are playing solo, I'd say "why not"? However, it will get confusing once you start playing or singing with anyone else. You have an advantage with a field-tunable stringed instrument in that you can do what you want when it comes to setting reference pitch. It's a bit tougher if you play together with manual keyboards, rather than electronic instruments with variable pitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigKahune Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 . I wouldn't do that unless everyone else was. If/when the standard is changed, I will too. There must not be too many keyboard players here, because damn - there's a whole lotta keyboards out there that aren't going to cooperate. Costly change. . B) . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duluthdan Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 I read you – had my guitars 1 or a half step down for the last 12 years. But recently I began hearing these A-note overtones (in reality G#) when taking a common G chord (in reality F#). They come from the open D-string (in reality C#) and they really get to me. The phenomenon dies somewhat down as the strings fades to normal, but when they are new it's almost impossible to handle. It's even annoying on a sub conscious sonic level if I somehow 'forget'. This is easy to tell after returning to standard tuning by capo or going further down to D where there's nothing. Is this something you recognize Duluth ? Now that you mention it, yes - the open D string on both half step guitars rings a bit proudly - I thought perhaps it had to do with radius and string height, but it could be the inner hidden deeper mystery of sonics I suppose, not enough to wig me out though. This is true of both guitars, one strung with 80/20 and one with PBs. (12s). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 Now that you mention it, yes - the open D string on both half step guitars rings a bit proudly - I thought perhaps it had to do with radius and string height, but it could be the inner hidden deeper mystery of sonics I suppose, not enough to wig me out though. This is true of both guitars, one strung with 80/20 and one with PBs. (12s). Aha, , , , hope I didn't plant an insect in your ear. Well the D note triggers the A overtone (we know they are in family). It's just not an issue if the G-chord is played on a guitar in standard or 1whole step down. It seems the woods'n'construction set the scene here - I personally feel some kind of relief without it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merseybeat1963 Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 For me...long struggle with this. I have always prefered the feel & sound of guitars tuned down...but felt i was cheating tuning to 415, so its been a long search for guitars that had that mush resonance & feel at 440...guitars came & went.. Eventually I discovered during the time of buying our piano at Steinway and pretty much engrossed with early music that originally standard pitch was 415 pretty much for centuries..and was raised little by little up to as much as 454 or 456(aprox) so's to get more volume out of the instruments to be heard by the increasingly larger audiences.The increase of scale length on guitars also.. It was for "business" that pitch was increased not for a perfection or tone or anything like that. My natural instinct that the bloody strings are too tight had some historical basis it turned out. As a vocalist standard tuning has been more than ok for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mojorule Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 I was introduced to this debate by an enlightened 432er a few months ago at a birthday party in Budapest. He mentioned Goebbels as the originator of 440 standard, but when I did some research I couldn't find his name anywhere. That made me rather sceptical. Now I see old 'no balls' cropping up again, and I'm on my guard. The rhetoric on the website you post is rather interesting, Wily. In particular the way it moves from the ISO back to the Hitlerzeit with a 'following attempts by the Nazi Goebbels' phrase is very crafty. While the 'following' might well denote chronological sequence and imply nothing more, so no link between the ISO and Nazism (following = subsequent to), I don't believe that I would be alone in tending to read it as connoting a logical sequence and ideological link between the Third Reich and modern standardization (following = consequent to). This tendency is stronger because only two items are linked by the word. If there were a whole list of events with a 'following' interspersed, the chronological bias of the word might be stronger. Some skulduggery is at play here, which British forumites might recognize as similar to Mrs Merton's (pre-Ali G comedy interviewer) famous question to 'the lovely' Debbie McGee (magician's assistant who married her magician): 'So Debbie McGee, what exactly made you decide to marry the millionaire Paul Daniels'. I'm also troubled by the presentation of the samples. If you hear a piece in 432 and get used to that pitch, then hear it again in 440, you are surely going to find the second version disturbing, because it clashes with what you've grown to expect. Reverse the process, and you'll probably find 432 disturbing. If you then listen to a sample which begins and ends in 432, but oscillates between 432 and 440 in the middle, you are also surely going to find the sections in 440 incongruous, since they clash with what was established at the start, and is reestablished at the end. In such an arrangement, the return to 432 will always seem like a resolution of tension caused by a disruptive modulation. Again, reverse the positions of the two frequencies and the results will also be reversed. The controls required by scientific method are missing in these mini-experiments, and so they cannot prove anything conclusively. That said, I must say that I also prefer the sound of my guitars when they are tuned down half a step, and I do find that 440 chokes my voice and my instruments a bit. Half a step down is rather more than the drop from 440 to 432, DD. I did find that the time spent tuning to 432 at said Budapest birthday party was rather comical. The resulting sound didn't seem to be sufficiently different or deep to my ears, and I felt that tuning down a half step or a step would have been easier and preferable. But to be honest, I'm a Luddite, and I don't really understand why people are so obsessed with their tuners. I don't own one and never have. If I need to be in concert 440 for group harmony, I'll tune to the piano. Otherwise, I tune to what sounds good to my ears. I don't think we really need a standard, whether it be 440 or 432. When people play together, they should just reach an agreement ad hoc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewilyfool Posted April 22, 2012 Author Share Posted April 22, 2012 Mojo....sorry about that connection....I was just interested in the claim of higher spiritual vibration that is said to be more in tune with the vibration of the universe. Not all those other claims....It does feel good to play in that 432 for me, and I guess I was trying to encourage others to just try it out and see what they think, I had NO intention of opening up any political aspects of it. I was just hopin you would try it out and report back... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 I was just interested in the claim of higher spiritual vibration that is said to be more in tune with the vibration of the universe. Yeah, I think I've noticed that before, particularly after a few puffs of miracle herb...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mojorule Posted April 22, 2012 Share Posted April 22, 2012 Mojo....sorry about that connection....I was just interested in the claim of higher spiritual vibration that is said to be more in tune with the vibration of the universe. Not all those other claims....It does feel good to play in that 432 for me, and I guess I was trying to encourage others to just try it out and see what they think, I had NO intention of opening up any political aspects of it. I was just hopin you would try it out and report back... Oops, did I sound irked? Well not with your post or the topic, Wily. The idea really is interesting, though I'm not so keen on the campaign to enforce any one pitch as an international standard, which clearly was not your point in the first place (apologies if my critique of the website is a bit of a hijack). I like the fact that Hendrix always tuned down a half step, just because he liked it that way, but I'd never really thought doing so could make that much of a difference to tone - perhaps more to technique. Then my SJ arrived and I was intrigued when I worked out that it was similarly tuned down, and that I preferred the sound to the nonetheless very fine tone at concert pitch. At that point I'd not yet encountered all the stories of guitar shops tuning down to make instruments more resonant. Such naivety! Given this experience, my interest really was piqued by the topic of 432 when I first encountered it a few months back. But I wasn't quite sold on 432 per se. Apparently all manner of different pitches used to be employed in different places and situations. I think I read somewhere that Bach liked his organs tuned up even higher than 440. I'm with you in so far as I would go with the low side. Bach's preference almost makes me grimace just thinking about how shrill it must be. The chap who introduced the idea to me was very friendly, and was performing with somebody whose playing I respect and company I enjoy a great deal. I just found their attention to getting the pitch spot on a bit cranky, and some of the reasons a bit far out. I'm probably with hippy values enough to appreciate the chilled out side of playing deeper. I'm not quite down with spiritual vibration stuff yet - though I certainly will not mock it. However subjective the whole thing might be, there's certainly something in the idea that we find certain pitches, keys and resonances more comfortable and comforting than others. I suspect I'm more 415 than 432, which may mean that my sensibilities are not refined enough! Do we sound a bit Spinal Tap, though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissouriPicker Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Until now, I don't think I've ever heard of Goebbels being connected to any kind of musical tunings. Too bad it's not all he's connected to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrorod Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Yeah, I think I've noticed that before, particularly after a few puffs of miracle herb...... Damn you, J45nick.....All this time, I thought I was smokin' Miracle EAR!....Now your tellin' me its Miricle HERB.... Wut uP Wit DaT.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKing777 Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Tuning? My shop said they had already tuned it for me.....Do I need to take it back AGAIN?:unsure: Sorry... I have a lot of my guitars down a whole step for the slightly grungy Lighnin' blues tone and also for the vocals - if I am playing in F shapes (Eb) I can sing in a couple of octaves, but sound like the cat got the bits in real Standard tuning F. Also fantastic to surprise harp players who only play in E and A! And a lovely surprise for that showoff singer when you launch into the E shuffle which is really in D now. But DON'T ask the guitar player to play in Abminor7 real time (standard tuning sound Ab) on stage when he is tuned down a tone...............the song could possibly over before he's got it, and perhaps the whole band set. BluesKing777. I nearly forgot to tell you that some electric pianos (Rhodes???, Yammy???) have a little knob on the back to adjust the pitch from A440 up and down - fantastic to fiddle with if the piano player is late back from a break! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrorod Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 I tryed it this evening, but did not get my....'cos=mic nut'... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mojorule Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 I tryed it this evening, but did not get my....'cos=mic nut'... Playing in 432 or messing with the keyboard player's Yammy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKing777 Posted April 23, 2012 Share Posted April 23, 2012 Playing in 432 or messing with the keyboard player's Yammy? I apologize to the Keyboard Players for letting on some evil tricks to other guitarists! Though the keyboard player I last played with (R.I.P. didn't get past the cancer), had no sense of humour and because he had the only piece of equipment that only perhaps a masochist would want to pinch from the second story gig we played every Saturday night, arrived at the habit of getting there very early to set up then head off somewhere (who knows? Dinner, Girl, Boy, whatever?), and then get back at the gig 15 minutes late every time. Hence he was the butt of all the tricks like the one mentioned above and other like: greased piano stool, bent and uneven piano stool legs, piano moved behind the curtains (well, only once!), sticky buns rubbed along the keys, keys stuck together etc etc. Sorry to hijack the thread. And don't forget to dip the Lead Singer's harmonica in vinegar! BluesKing777. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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