Tuning Gear Ratios

[John Lee Walker]

Ok, here's one for some of you techies out there. In my ongoing personalization/customization of my J200 MC, I am considering a few more changes to bring this guitar closer to what I want. Aside from the fossilized walrus saddle, which is a definite go now thanks to opinions expressed on here that I truly respect, I am considering changing out the stock Grover tuners for something more flashy retro such as the Gotoh or Grover open-geared vintage tuners with the butterbean knobs. Gotoh has had them for awhile now, but Grover has now come out with them as well, and theirs are the Sta-Tites. My question is about the ratio ratings - 15.1, 16.1, and 18.1, etc. In this equation, is lower better? Which do you prefer and why?

 

I'm thinking more about the newer Grovers, as I am hoping the holes will line up nicely. What do you think?

 

Jeff said I should take a picture of the final product so that he can send it in to the Custom Factory Shop and introduce them to the SJ200 Modern Classic John Lee Walker Signature Model lol.

[TWilson]

John Lee - Are you going to do it if the holes don't line up?

[jchabalk]

i think that the ratios indicate the number of turns of the tuner that equal a single full rotation of the peg. eg: on a 14:1 tuner 14 turns of the butter-bean would make a single 360 degree rotation of the peg.

 

I would think that a ratio of 18:1 would give not necessarily a more precise tuning, but would maybe make it easier to achieve a precise tuning as you'd have a lot of room to move the tuner with less impact to the tension on the string.

 

I've never changed mine out and have only used the stock tuners. I think if i were changing mine out i'd go for the higher ratio (18:1) to get the more fine control.

 

i'm going to keep my eye on this thread as i'm interested in what others have to say about it too.

[ksdaddy]

jchabalk said it all, nothing to add.

[ballcorner]

Indeed the 18:1 ratio will give you finer adjustments in the tuning, but that gear ratio also means slightly thinner teeth in the gears. So, up front you get better control, but they can wear more quickly or damage easier. It is also commonly thought that the tighter ratios such as 18:1 are more likely to slip from bending - though I have not personally found this to be the case. I have found that cheap tuners slip and good ones slip a lot less.

 

Where you are considering butter bean knobs and an open tuner, I am a big fan of Waverly tuners with the snakewood knob which you can see here:

 

Show me the snakewood!!

[Custom....]

Indeed the 18:1 ratio will give you finer adjustments in the tuning' date=' but that gear ratio also means slightly thinner teeth in the gears. So, up front you get better control, but they can wear more quickly or damage easier. It is also commonly thought that the tighter ratios such as 18:1 are more likely to slip from bending - though I have not personally found this to be the case. I have found that cheap tuners slip and good ones slip a lot less.

 

Where you are considering butter bean knobs and an open tuner, I am a big fan of Waverly tuners with the snakewood knob which you can see here:

 

Show me the snakewood!!

if you get the grovers they are not cheap tuners. and if your worried about slipping out of tune you can get 18:1 locking tuners from grover.

[John Lee Walker]

As always, thanks very much for the great info. That's why I come here almost everytime I break out the laptop anymore:)

 

TWilson - the tuning peg holes should line up ok, I would think. I was thinking more about the mount screw holes on the back of the machinehead. That's a decision I will hopefully not have to make. I would never do anything that didn't look good or professionally installed. So, if there are offset 'tan lines' or anything that looks shoddy on the back of the headstock the answer is a resounding no.

 

ballcorner - great info, and I really like the snakewood, those are sharp. What guitars have you installed them on?

 

jchabalk - thanks much for your info. Sounds like 18.1 is the way to go, and I'm now leaning more toward the Grovers because they are the Sta-Tite locking tuners and they look just like the Gotohs with the butterbean knobs and the vintage open gears. I do like those snakewoods, but I think I'll stay with the gold on this guitar. I might just get those snakewoods for my Gretsch archtop, tho:)

 

Thanks, y'all!

[ballcorner]

I put a set of those snakewood tuners on a Morgan OM, but then I sold it a few weeks later. Nice tuners, the Waverly.

 

I have the gotoh butter bean tuners on my AJ and they work very well - I believe the butter beans on my HD-28V Martin are gotoh as well - or at least they are an exact replica of the gotoh button. They are Martin branded, of course, so I am not certain what they are, but again they perform very well.

 

I am waiting for someone to make six inline butterbeans for telecasters. Then I will be a happy guy.

[TWilson]

John Lee - yes, I meant the mounting screw holes as well. I wouldn't do it either. I popped some Kluson Deluxe Gold tuners in my J-45, the ones with the tulip heads. They were a straight swap but I put the white buttons back a few months later after seeing the photo of Dylan playing his J-45 with the stock white buttons. Glad I did!