The Berklee College of Music

[D4RK_4DV3NT]

I may have any opportunity to take an online certification course for guitar from this college! Has anyone taken any classes from them before? How are they? I'm quite excited about it!

[Thermionik]

Berkley I could go for, but Berklee sounds..... well, I don't know.

 

But they have an Alumni list as long as your arm, and better known. And they have been around a while too, so any cracks would have shown up long ago, so it must be cool. Good luck - I wish I had your dedication. Presumably you have to go to Boston at some stage..... kinda tough to judge your progress on guitar on-line?

[D4RK_4DV3NT]

Berkley I could go for' date=' but Berklee sounds..... well, I don't know.

 

But they have an Alumni list as long as your arm, and better known. And they have been around a while too, so any cracks would have shown up long ago, so it must be cool. Good luck - I wish I had your dedication. Presumably you have to go to Boston at some stage..... kinda tough to judge your progress on guitar on-line?[/quote']

 

I've never heard of a Berkley College of Music...I couldn't find anything for that online. Just a regular college in California. The reason the Berklee College of Music online Master Certificate in Guitar sounds good is because my current location severely limits my ability to take any classes in person...plus this course seems pretty solid. As for a degree, I'll probably get that in something else likely involving computer graphics/animation and what not. However, this guitar Master Certificate course sounds like it'd be awesome in providing more education on the subject. I did a bit of research on the place and it seems quite credible...apparently John Mayer, Steve Vai, and Kevin Eubanks are all alumni of this college.

[Notes_Norton]

If you are talking about BerkLee Music College in Boston, you are talking about one of the most respected jazz/pop music schools in the country. Berklee Link Many of the greatest and best known jazz musicians have graduated from there.

 

I took their correspondence course (long before Internet) and it taught me quite a bit. I wish I could have gone to Boston to study there directly.

 

If I were to name the top non-classical music schools in the US, three would come to mind, Berklee, University of Miami, and North Texas State University.

 

Insights and incites by Notes

[Thermionik]

Berklee - music college of renown, but which few have heard of.....

 

Berkley - World Famous Californian University.....

 

Kind of a joke that fell flat like a freakin' pancake. My bad. So - you found three (3) alumni. Check it out:

 

Producer Quincy Jones.

Pianists Bruce Hornsby, Keith Jarrett, Hiromi Uehara, and Diana Krall.

Guitarists Steve Vai, Rivers Cuomo, Kevin Eubanks, Shane Gibson and John Mayer.

Bassist and keyboard player Matt Wachter.

Bassist John Myung, drummer Mike Portnoy and guitarist John Petrucci of prog metal band Dream Theater.

Songwriters Aimee Mann, Paula Cole, Gavin DeGraw, Tracy Bonham, and Melissa Etheridge.

Film scorers Alan Silvestri and Howard Shore.

Jazz saxophonist Branford Marsalis.

Composer, arranger and producer Rob Mounsey (you name 'em, he produced 'em).

Producer and jazz drummer Thomas Blachman (Danish..... and famous there anyway).

Electronic music/film composer Brian Wayne 'BT' Transeau the Prince of Dance and the stutter-edit.

Aerosmith guitarist Brad Whitford and drummer Joey Kramer.

Trey Parker, co-creator of South Park.

Guitarist, producer and graphic artist Hal Lester.

Juan Luis Guerra, famous merengue/bachata singer from the Dominican Republic.

Argentinian bass player and solo artist Pedro Aznar.

Alexander Lee-Hom Wang, successful Taiwanese-American singer.

Jo Sung Hyun a.k.a. Eru a.k.a. K-pop singer and songwriter from Korea.

Ted Lo, one of Hong Kong's top jazz pianist and successful record producer, arranger and composer.

Joe Guese, Ben Romans, Ethan Mentzer, Joey Zehr, and Kyle Patrick, all of The Click Five.

Meekal Hassan, founder and lead guitarist of Pakistani band Meekal Hassan Band.

Hip hop/pop music producer, Jonathan 'JR' Rotem.

Konami corp composer and synth gear-head Sota Fujimori.

Honorary doctorates include Donald Fagen and Walter Becker of Steely Dan, the Dominican pianist Michel Camilo, songwriter Melissa Etheridge, singers Chaka Khan and Aretha Franklin, the inventor Robert Moog, Ricky Skaggs the bluegrass singer, player, producer and composer.

 

Man - you qualify from there you will be in fine company. Good luck to you.....

[djroge1]

Berklee - music college of renown' date=' but which few have heard of.....

 

[b']Berkley[/b] - World Famous Californian University.....

 

Kind of a joke that fell flat like a freakin' pancake. My bad. So - you found three (3) alumni. Check it out:

 

Producer Quincy Jones.

Pianists Bruce Hornsby, Keith Jarrett, Hiromi Uehara, and Diana Krall.

Guitarists Steve Vai, Rivers Cuomo, Kevin Eubanks, Shane Gibson and John Mayer.

Bassist and keyboard player Matt Wachter.

Bassist John Myung, drummer Mike Portnoy and guitarist John Petrucci of prog metal band Dream Theater.

Songwriters Aimee Mann, Paula Cole, Gavin DeGraw, Tracy Bonham, and Melissa Etheridge.

Film scorers Alan Silvestri and Howard Shore.

Jazz saxophonist Branford Marsalis.

Composer, arranger and producer Rob Mounsey (you name 'em, he produced 'em).

Producer and jazz drummer Thomas Blachman (Danish..... and famous there anyway).

Electronic music/film composer Brian Wayne 'BT' Transeau the Prince of Dance and the stutter-edit.

Aerosmith guitarist Brad Whitford and drummer Joey Kramer.

Trey Parker, co-creator of South Park.

Guitarist, producer and graphic artist Hal Lester.

Juan Luis Guerra, famous merengue/bachata singer from the Dominican Republic.

Argentinian bass player and solo artist Pedro Aznar.

Alexander Lee-Hom Wang, successful Taiwanese-American singer.

Jo Sung Hyun a.k.a. Eru a.k.a. K-pop singer and songwriter from Korea.

Ted Lo, one of Hong Kong's top jazz pianist and successful record producer, arranger and composer.

Joe Guese, Ben Romans, Ethan Mentzer, Joey Zehr, and Kyle Patrick, all of The Click Five.

Meekal Hassan, founder and lead guitarist of Pakistani band Meekal Hassan Band.

Hip hop/pop music producer, Jonathan 'JR' Rotem.

Konami corp composer and synth gear-head Sota Fujimori.

Honorary doctorates include Donald Fagen and Walter Becker of Steely Dan, the Dominican pianist Michel Camilo, songwriter Melissa Etheridge, singers Chaka Khan and Aretha Franklin, the inventor Robert Moog, Ricky Skaggs the bluegrass singer, player, producer and composer.

 

Man - you qualify from there you will be in fine company. Good luck to you..... :)

 

Let's not forget Al DiMeola and I not positive but I think Chick Corea, Lenny White, and Stanley Clark - basically the whole Return to Forever group. I'm not sure about their original guitarist... Bill Conners?

 

Oh and that chick from the Dixie Chicks went there for a while... Natilee Mains or something like that.

[Thundergod]

Ok... here goes the a-hole comment on berklee...

 

That list is prety amazing inst it?

 

Guess what... they have a big list of people that have studied there and are nobodies

 

As with everything, you can't blame success on a university. It has things to do with many more things than that.

 

A while ago (8 years) a friend of mine (female singer) called me very excited... she was meeting emilio stefan (if you don't know who he is feel free to ask). She was meeting him as he was interested in signing a recording deal with her... yadah yadah yadah... I said the same I am saying now: ok... there's a lot of people he has made mega famous... but, there's a lot of people he has produced and haven't made it.

 

8 years have passed... she never made it to "priority" so notihng ever happened.

[RudyH]

Back to the original question, I am very skeptical of the value of such an online certification. The real benefit of a music school is interacting with other musicians, some of whom are teachers. I seriously doubt that any of those named in the prestigious list above took an online certificate. Also, what value does the certificate have? What is the return on investment for it?

[djroge1]

Back to the original question' date=' I am very skeptical of the value of such an online certification. The real benefit of a music school is interacting with other musicians, some of whom are teachers. I seriously doubt that any of those named in the prestigious list above took an online certificate. Also, what value does the certificate have? What is the return on investment for it? [/quote']

 

Back to the original question... well sort of back to the original question

 

The return on the investment depends in part on ones goals.

 

Will you learn about music - chords, scales, composition etc..., applying it to guitar and possibly other instruments depending on you, basic pro-tools usage, and basics of music business. Yes one can learn all of that. But what do you want to do with your life, your music, your skill set?

 

On line schools are gaining more acceptance each year. Honestly though would an on-line certificate in any given subject be considered before an actual big name school degree? Probably not. Can you get a break? Yes, but going to Berkley is no guarantee nor is Harvard or Yale... although I'm sure those big name schools would help get your foot in the door, but the music business is different that being an attorney.

 

I've tossed around the idea of doing this same thing thru Berkley, but for fun and knowledge. I'm not out there trying to make it big. I do sometimes teach guitar - been doing that off and on for the past 15 or so years. Would classes like this help me teach others? I think so.

 

Overall, if one has the $$ to spend and this is the best option at the time I say yes it will probably be a good investment.

 

In short I have not taken any of their classes. I think from reading all of the posts it is safe to say that they are a top notch school and you will probably learn a lot from them. I would do it - it sounds fun and exciting!

[Notes_Norton]

Back when I took their correspondence course, playing was not a part of it, but I learned a lot of theory.

 

Of course, the theory I learned helped me play better.

 

Warning: Editorial comment ahead.

 

IMHO All a music school can do is teach theory. A good teacher can teach you "how to listen" to music. But neither a music school or any teacher actually teach you to be a good player. That is up to you.

 

For a few years I worked on cruise ships in a duo in a small lounge. The main orchestra was primarily filled with recent graduates from the University of Miami, North Texas State and other schools who were getting their first gig experience. The players came and went so I got to know a lot of them in those 3 years, plus I ended up transferring to 3 different ships so I could see different ports and of course met new players in the different orchestras. So I met many recently graduated musicians.

 

What I noticed is that all the musicians who went to the better schools knew a lot of theory. They also could play Coltrane and other BeBop player's licks on their respective instruments backwards and forwards. They all could sightread music very well. But most of them were not really excellent musicians. Sure they were capable, and could play the notes, but there is a lot more to music than simply playing the notes.

 

On the other hand, a small percentage of those graduates could play the notes AND had the inborn talent. These were the people that were incredible musicians and a joy to hear.

 

To be a great musician, in addition to having the technical control of your instrument, you have to know the right notes to play, when to play them, how to play them expressively, and when not to play them.

 

The approximately 10% of the people who had the talent could use the theory and training to make wonderful music. The rest of them could play amazingly technically competent but what I call "empty notes".

 

So do I think music school is bad?

 

Definitely not. If you have the talent, the technical abilities that you gain from going to school will make you a better player. If you don't have the talent, you will simply be the best that you can be. There are a lot of excellent sightreaders who can follow the conductor's directions and get jobs in pit orchestras and do quite well there.

 

So sure, a lot of nobodies graduated from Berklee. And a lot of great players never went to music school at all. There is more than one way to learn to be a better musician, and more than one way to become a mediocre musician. Personally, I think what is inside of you counts more than anything else. If you have what it takes, the knowledge will allow you to express that. If you don't have what it takes, all the schooling in the world won't make you a great musician.

 

Speaking of nobodies. There are a lot of fantastic players who are nobodies. There are guitar players playing in some Holiday Inn or some wedding band that could give Slash, Hall, Walsh, Clapton, Page, Beck, and other "guitar gods" a run for their money, and these same players could put 90% of the famous players in their hip pocket, but they simply didn't get the breaks. If you want to start a flame war on a sax forum, mention Kenny G. Most of us think we can play much better than he does, but he is making gazillions of dollars.

 

Of course there are a lot of mediocre musicians playing in the nobody venues, too.

 

So my advice to you is this. If you want to learn about music theory consider taking the course.

 

If you want someone to tell you that your hand position would be better if you did this, get a good private teacher.

 

Learning more will help you reach your personal potential.

 

I guess I'm rambling a bit here, so I'll cut it short.

 

Insights and incites by Notes

[Murph]

Man, I hate to agree with "Notes" because of some political stuff he wrote before.......

 

But..........

 

Education is good, but it doesn't have a damned thing to do with talent. What he said about guys playing in local bars that can kick Joe Walsh's butt is so true.

 

The absolute, greatist fiddle player to ever walk the face of the Earth was Scotty Stoneman. Dirt poor. Zero education. Goobs of talent.

 

Murph.

[SRV-Zeppelin]

+1, Murph. While it can never hurt to go to a prestigious school, it won't guarantee that you're going to come out a master musician. The high school where I live (there's only one- small town) is known as one of the best schools in Canada for both academics and student participation/relations, etc, yet it's also one of the smallest and (unfortunately) under-funded.

[rocketman]

Ok... here goes the a-hole comment on berklee...

 

That list is prety amazing inst it?

 

Guess what... they have a big list of people that have studied there and are nobodies

 

As with everything' date=' you can't blame success on a university. It has things to do with many more things than that.

 

A while ago (8 years) a friend of mine (female singer) called me very excited... she was meeting emilio stefan (if you don't know who he is feel free to ask). She was meeting him as he was interested in signing a recording deal with her... yadah yadah yadah... I said the same I am saying now: ok... there's a lot of people he has made mega famous... but, there's a lot of people he has produced and haven't made it.

 

8 years have passed... she never made it to "priority" so notihng ever happened.

[/quote']

 

Well I actually got accepted to both Berklee college and Eastman school of music for performance piano in my youth. In high school I worked part time in a restaurant. I decided not to go to music school when I found out that one of the full time employees had a music degree from Berklee, but his music gig didn't earn him enough to live on. I went to engineering school instead.

 

Information on the online program for guitar can be found here. I actually have a lot of respect for people that are willing to take a chance on music. I never had the guts to do it. The problem is that you don't need a music degree to take that chance...

[Mark]

You can try Berklee right here in the lessons section,but I prefer Arlen

[L5Larry]

In my 35 years in the music business, I've never been asked for a resume or transcript, the business works by audition. It doesn't matter where you learned your craft, if you can't prove yourself at the audition, your not going to get the gig, Berklee, Eastman, or wherever.

 

I'm not a big fan of the private teacher for various reasons (that could be a long post in itself), but I do believe in education. Your time and money would be better spent at a local community college or university, where even in the "classroom" setting, you would at least have some feedback and interaction with instructors and other musicians.

[rocketman]

Hmm, I guess there is no right answer from everything I read here. I guess it comes down to "teaching creativity." Some people do have more natural abilities than others. Trust me as a professor I see this everyday. But hard work will always triumph in the end. Will you be the next Slash, who knows? Only you can decide what level is acceptable. I'm also a researcher. The best part of my job is that I continue to learn something new every day. But I do it through a number of avenues. The same can be said about music training. Try everything once and see what feels the best for you.

 

Do they have a drop period with no penalties on this course or do you need to pay for everything up front? Online courses can vary greatly, just like individual teachers, so it'll will be useful to be able to "try it out" before "buying."

[Thermionik]

My point was that, for every single artist on their list of alumni, I can probably list ten, twenty, maybe more, who are way more inspired musos and never took a lesson in their life. Take just one example. Steve Vai. Technically good, but inspirational, maybe to some but not to many..... now list a string of your real favourite guitar slingers and check out how many took the serious musicology courses and how many just went for sex, drugs and rock and roll, or at least just learned their chops gigging.....

 

Oh yeah, and another thing..... how many of the real inspirational guitar players are teaching in universities on a full-time basis. Most do master-classes here and there, but full-time teaching posts at the Berklee..... I don't think so.

 

If you want to become a suit in music management - Berklee.

If you want to rock out, well, just pick up your guitar and play.

[daveinspain]

Berklee School of music is going to open a European branch right here in Valencia where I live.... I wonder if the take old beginners....?

[Thermionik]

Hey daveinspain - whereabouts in Valencia.....

 

.....only ask because many years ago I spent a lot of time off and on in La Cañada just west of town.

 

Buenos dias amigo!

[Thundergod]

I have to say... I don't have anything against people studing in berklee or wherever they want to... I think that place is cool.

 

I know a few people that studied there: one is a very acomplished producer here... the others work either at samash or GC...

 

So what I was aiming at is, no institute or university guarantees anything. Thats all. I meant no disrespect to anyone. (just in case)

[Notes_Norton]

Man' date=' I hate to agree with "Notes" because of some political stuff he wrote before.......

 

But..........<...>

Murph.[/quote']

 

Hey Murph, we can still be friends, even if we don't see eye to eye politically

 

You are still OK in my book, and I hope I'm still OK in yours.

 

We at least both own Gibsons

 

Notes

[Notes_Norton]

Hmm' date=' I guess there is no right answer from everything I read here. I guess it comes down to "teaching creativity." Some people do have more natural abilities than others. Trust me as a professor I see this everyday. <...>[/quote']

 

I agree, creativity cannot be taught.

 

However, a school can teach you the tools that allow you to express your creativity better.

 

And I agree, it doesn't matter where you learn your craft. In the "big band" days, people like Stan Getz (my all-time favorite sax player) learned from the older players in the band (like Lester Young) and then took what they learned and personalized it. I guess that was music school in its own way.

 

Wes Montgomery supposedly taught himself and then developed that with tips from other players.

 

As far as private teachers are concerned, you have to find a good one or you are wasting money.

 

The greatest gift a teacher ever gave me was how to listen to music. He would play records (yes I'm that old) and point out how classical composers created musical themes and then how they developed them. Before long I could hear the variations and development of themes in classical and other forms of music. And I could also hear good jazz and rock soloists develop themes in their playing. I remember the day, after listening to the Dvorak's Ninth Symphony many hundreds of times, I realized that one section he played one theme as a melody, and three other themes in different variations as background and/or counter-melody parts all at the same time. What a delight. It;s not about playing notes, it's about making music -- and there is a difference.

 

When I learned to improvise (and after all these years, I'm still learning), I Try to incorporate those ideas into my solos and rather than play a bunch of scale fragments, try to weave and develop a melody, allowing the listener to predict where I am going part of the time and surprise the listener other times. I must be at least reasonably successful, as I am making a living doing music and nothing but music.

 

A teacher can teach you the physically technical skills, he/she can teach you music theory, he/she can teach you tips and tricks in expressive playing (another great help), he/she can guide you as to what scales another fundamentals you should have under your fingers, he/she can teach you how to listen to music, but IMHO he/she cannot teach creativity. All of these are tools to help you express your own creativity or to develop your own creativity, but they don't teach you how to be creative.

 

You can develop your creativity by learning all the above, and by listening to a lot of music. Listen until you can "sing along" with the parts in your mind (not following but with). And don't restrict yourself to one kind of music. Back before Internet and Satellite Radio, some of the best jazz radio stations were in Nashville Tennesee. Listen to forms of music that are simpler and more complex than you intend to play. From 3 chord blues to symphonies, and everything in between - including music from other countries. If you listen enough, these elements will affect your playing and give you even more tools to express your creativity.

 

At least that is the way I see it.

 

Insights and incites by Notes

[xchrisbobisx]

Ok... here goes the a-hole comment on berklee...

 

Guess what... they have a big list of people that have studied there and are nobodies

 

I was going to say something along those lines thunder but i was scared i was going to get flamed. Im studying music on my own, and never thought of going to school for it. The only thing I can think of that a school can help you do in music is hook you up w/ famous people. So its sad in a way, your just paying for a blackbook w/ a couple of peoples numbers in it. The shady thing with schools are if you graduate and suck in life they forget about you. Once you make it ON YOUR OWN they come back and want to help you out, and sponsor your etc etc etc.

Im sure Theodore Kaczynski, for example wont be appearing in any Harvard records or alumina's he he he...

[Thundergod]

Im sure Theodore Kaczynski' date=' for example wont be appearing in any Harvard records or alumina's he he he...[/quote']

 

 

Exactly!

[Riffster]

I know a couple of guys that went to Berklee, one plays the guitar the other piano and they have an incredible grasp on music all around.

 

They are no famous but that does not mean they are not very good.

 

We all know how the music industry works, there is a reason they sells t-shirts that read: "Talentless but Connected"

 

That is not the point here though. I am planning to take lessons but I am not looking to get famous...

 

There are a ton of talented musicians you have never heard of, just swing by Nashville sometime...