lstelie Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Hello, Someone proposes to sell me a Epi Dot cherry. This guitar has been bought used a few years ago Serial number is ES-335 DOT - NO 80093104 .. well here is the problem The Dot series started in 1997 ( http://www.epiphonewiki.com/index.php?title=Dot ) According to Epiphone official history this might be a Matsomoku period instrument but I find no mention of a Matsumoku ES-335 and Guitar Dater Project says : Your guitar was made in Korea September c.1980 Production Number: 3104 ... but according to official history and Wikipedia pages) Epi switched to Korea in 1983 The guitar is not an elitist but looks like (Same headstock logo, neck binding when regular dot doesn’t have a neck binding) Any idea about “what is this strange beast” ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinTheHood Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 It could possibly be a 1959 ES-335 Dot reissue. Its the only Dot besides the Elitist and Royale Series to have binding on the neck. The only issue I have with this guitar is the headstock. I've never seen one with the modern "clipped-ear" headstock that you would typically see on a solid body or older acoustics. The Elitists had either the 'tombstone" style or "Gibson open-book" headstocks depending on the market it was intended for. All of the other Dots have the elongated traditional headstock. The serial number appears to indicate that it was made in either 1998 or 2008. The 1959 ES-335 Dot was produced in 2007 as a limited run. It could have bled over in to 2008. The actual production run could have actually been for 2007-2008. Although, this does not explain the headstock. For Epiphone acoustic guitars, th switchover from the clipped-ear to the elongated headstock was approximatley 1998-1999 - give or take some months for certain models. This is definitely not a Matsumoku guitar, even though the control knobs and bridge appear to be similar to the Matsu guitars. The bridge is also similar to the Elitist, at least by appearance. The real givaway, aside from the fact that there were no Dots before 1997, would be the headstock and truss rod cover. Epiphone didnt start using either of those designs until the 1990's. As far as the truss rod cover, when I say "design", I mean the vertical Gibson lettering. These are tell-tale indicators of a 1990-2004-ish guitar. That being said, the truss cover could have been replaced at some point, but replacing it with a factory Epiphone "Gibson" lettered truss cover is unlikely, or at least unusual. Due to these things, a manufacturing date of 1998 seems most likely to me. This could possibly be an early prototype or show guitar years before the Elitist and 1959 ES-335 Dots were produced. It seems that I've seen this guitar, or one similar to it on this forum before. I cant remember the conclusion that we came to though. I dont think that we ever figured it out, to be honest. Here is a link to the Epiphonewiki Dot page. Note: this is not the Wikipedia page. http://www.epiphonew...2759_ES-335_Dot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lstelie Posted June 21, 2012 Author Share Posted June 21, 2012 It could possibly be a 1959 ES-335 Dot reissue. ...Due to these things, a manufacturing date of 1998 seems most likely to me. This could possibly be an early prototype or show guitar years before the Elitist and 1959 ES-335 Dots were produced. It seems that I've seen this guitar, or one similar to it on this forum before. I cant remember the conclusion that we came to though. I dont think that we ever figured it out, to be honest. Thanks a huge lot for this very detailled explaination Luc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indiekiduk Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 I think it's a 2000's ES-335 japan market only model, made in Korea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinTheHood Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 I think it's a 2000's ES-335 japan market only model, made in Korea. It certainly fits the bill, aside from the headstock and control knobs. I forgot that the Japanese ES-335 was late 1990's-early 2000's. It was the non-JDM ES-335 that was the 2007-2008 run. Not sure why this one would have the clipped-ear headstock, as the open-book was part of the deal for the strictly JDM guitars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indiekiduk Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 It certainly fits the bill, aside from the headstock and control knobs. I forgot that the Japanese ES-335 was late 1990's-early 2000's. It was the non-JDM ES-335 that was the 2007-2008 run. Not sure why this one would have the clipped-ear headstock, as the open-book was part of the deal for the strictly JDM guitars. I think the headstock is a match, in terms of shape, logo and silver pegs. I can't really tell from the photo if its a clipped-ear or not. From the pics I've seen, the original knobs would either be orange all-black. I suppose he might have just swapped them for those gibson silver topped black top hats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rednefceleb Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 It's a great looking replica of a Gibson 335 dot neck. Do you like the way it looks and feels? That's all that really counts. It's a beautiful red color. Once I called a man named Gary Brawer in San Francisco. An authorized Gibson repair person. I asked him once if he thought if I should buy an upgraded Birdseye Maple neck for my Strat from some expensive outlet. He said, "Do you like the way yours feels and plays"? I said "yes". He said "that's all that counts". He was right. I polished the frets and the maple in between them. Then I smoothed out the edges and it plays beautifully. Peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lstelie Posted June 21, 2012 Author Share Posted June 21, 2012 It's a great looking replica of a Gibson 335 dot neck. Do you like the way it looks and feels? That's all that really counts. It's a beautiful red color. Once I called a man named Gary Brawer in San Francisco. An authorized Gibson repair person. I asked him once if he thought if I should buy an upgraded Birdseye Maple neck for my Strat from some expensive outlet. He said, "Do you like the way yours feels and plays"? I said "yes". He said "that's all that counts". He was right. I polished the frets and the maple in between them. Then I smoothed out the edges and it plays beautifully. Peace. Hello, I 150% agree.. But I have two concerns : 1) I don't have a huge lot of money and I'm a little bit tired of the cheap guitar that I buy and quit without affective relationship. I love having a relationship with my objects, so I prefer if they have a rich story. If I had a lot of money I would buy a Gibson, I don't and I would like to buy a guitar that I am happy to keep. I currently own a Dot Studio, good guitar but just a tool. I would be happy to replace it with a nicer one. 2) I am offered this guitar for less than the price of a new current chineese DOT I'm a little bit afraid to ask too much questions to the owner in case it is a high end Epiphone dot (more high end than a regular one) to avoid a suddent price increase... Luc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lstelie Posted June 22, 2012 Author Share Posted June 22, 2012 Hello, I finally got it. I paid the price of a brand new DOT Studio and this guitar is much much more beautiful, unplugged the sound is fanatstic quality build is not to compare to my Dot so whichever is the real story of this guitar, it was a wonderful deal The woods inside, seen through the F holes seems much older than my korean Broadway or my chinese Dot Studio The label is not the usual oval one. It is rectangular, blue and states "Epiphone Kalamazoo" it's the same as this one http://vintageclassicalguitar.com/files/2011/09/-43922006510692250.jpg but mine states Style : es-335 Epiphone : DOT NO : 80093104 So if I'm right according to Gibson site serial system YDDDYXXX it might have been built on january 9 1983 (009 = 9th day) at the Gibson Kalamazoo plant, and was the 104th instrument stamped that day.. or been built in Japan or Korea On the other hand Blue Book of Electric Guitars ( http://www.scribd.com/doc/50250193/EPIPHONESERIALNUMBERS ) says : " During the early 1980s, the Japanese production costs became pricey due to the changing ratio of thedollar/yen. Production moved to Korea, and again the serial numbers are not an exact science as a datingmechanism. In 1993, a structure was developed where the number (or pair of numbers) following theinitial letter indicates the year of production (i.e. “3” indicates 1993, or a “93” would indicate the same). Some top of the line Epiphones were produced in the U.S. at either Gibson's Nashville or Montana facilitiesin the 1990s. These instruments are the only ones that correspond to the standard post-1977 Gibsonserialization. Like Gibson numbers, there are 8 digits in the complete number, and follows the code of YDDDYNNN. The YY (first and fifth) indicate the year built. DDD indicates the day of the year (soDDD can't be above 365), and the NNN indicates the instrument's production ranking for that day (NNN =021 = 21st guitar built). The Nashville facility begins each day at number 501, and the Montana workshopbegins at number 101. However, in 1994, the Nashville-produced Epiphones were configured asYYNNNNNN: YY = 94 (the year) and NNNNNN is the ranking for the entire year." My dot has the Gibson 8 numbers serial scheme so another possibility is a Montana item.. don't know I'll take some pics tomorrow if I have time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willsjazz Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 I have a 1959 ES-335 Dot reissue. Love it! Limited run in 2010. They really did a good job with the quality and details. Even the pickups sound great. It's a very diffent animal from the standard Epi Dot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinTheHood Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 Hello, I finally got it. I paid the price of a brand new DOT Studio and this guitar is much much more beautiful, unplugged the sound is fanatstic quality build is not to compare to my Dot so whichever is the real story of this guitar, it was a wonderful deal The woods inside, seen through the F holes seems much older than my korean Broadway or my chinese Dot Studio The label is not the usual oval one. It is rectangular, blue and states "Epiphone Kalamazoo" it's the same as this one http://vintageclassi...06510692250.jpg but mine states Style : es-335 Epiphone : DOT NO : 80093104 So if I'm right according to Gibson site serial system YDDDYXXX it might have been built on january 9 1983 (009 = 9th day) at the Gibson Kalamazoo plant, and was the 104th instrument stamped that day.. or been built in Japan or Korea On the other hand Blue Book of Electric Guitars ( http://www.scribd.co...NESERIALNUMBERS ) says : " During the early 1980s, the Japanese production costs became pricey due to the changing ratio of thedollar/yen. Production moved to Korea, and again the serial numbers are not an exact science as a datingmechanism. In 1993, a structure was developed where the number (or pair of numbers) following theinitial letter indicates the year of production (i.e. “3” indicates 1993, or a “93” would indicate the same). Some top of the line Epiphones were produced in the U.S. at either Gibson's Nashville or Montana facilitiesin the 1990s. These instruments are the only ones that correspond to the standard post-1977 Gibsonserialization. Like Gibson numbers, there are 8 digits in the complete number, and follows the code of YDDDYNNN. The YY (first and fifth) indicate the year built. DDD indicates the day of the year (soDDD can't be above 365), and the NNN indicates the instrument's production ranking for that day (NNN =021 = 21st guitar built). The Nashville facility begins each day at number 501, and the Montana workshopbegins at number 101. However, in 1994, the Nashville-produced Epiphones were configured asYYNNNNNN: YY = 94 (the year) and NNNNNN is the ranking for the entire year." My dot has the Gibson 8 numbers serial scheme so another possibility is a Montana item.. don't know I'll take some pics tomorrow if I have time There were no Dots made before 1997. Any date earlier than that is not an option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lstelie Posted June 23, 2012 Author Share Posted June 23, 2012 Any chance to see a pic of the label with the serial# Hello, I did some pictures this morning, they are here : http://www.flickr.com/photos/audioblog/sets/72157630249172924/detail/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinTheHood Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 Thanks for the pics! Looking at the position of the logo, I can tell you that it is definitiely a 1998 and not a 2008. A 2008 model will have a more scripted and rounder logo set on a angle. Yours has the blockier style lettering and is not angled. This is indicitive of a 1990's Epiphone. Some late 1980's Epiphones were set up this way as well, but like I said earlier, there were no Dots until 1997. Definitely a 1998 ES-335 Dot. Here is a Limited Edition 2007-2008 ES-335 Dot headstock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinlander Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 Very nice guitar; closer to an actual Gibson Dot it seems with his 335 style pickguard and Nashville small post bridge I can't see much fret wear neither, that guitar seems in very good shape for a 14 years old one Félicitations !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lstelie Posted June 23, 2012 Author Share Posted June 23, 2012 what is the asked price for it ? when does the seller think it was made ? where did he get it from ? Hello, The seller was selling it for his son. The son bought it used 5 or 6 years ago, used it at home and left his parents home a year ago to live his own life, and asked his father to sell his stuff among those this guitar Whichever is its history this is a real bargain, compared to my Dot Studio, the build is very different, the sound is gorgeous (my Studio has very nice SH1's) the neck is larger but not more fat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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