let.the.girl.play Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 I have what I believe is a very early 1942 Banner J-45 FON 214X. The good stuff.... It has an Adirondack top with multiply binding, mahogany neck (without a truss rod) and square mahogany neck block, darkly stained mahogany back and sides, Tuners are original. It has been professionally refretted. Finish on neck, back and sides is original and in good condition. The not so good stuff... At some point in the 50's the guitar was sent back to the Gibson factory for a neck reset-at this time the bridge and pickguard were "upgraded" to the current 50's specs (belly bridge and large pointed guard). I believe the Adirondack top (which is in very good condition-no repaired cracks that I can see) was also refinished (very well) at the factory during this time. Not really sure what it's worth? Any comments or suggestion would appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan H Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Pics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedzep Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 For dollar value, Gibson did you no favors. It probably sounds as sweet as could be. Here's a ballpark estimate...before $7500, after $3500. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
let.the.girl.play Posted September 24, 2012 Author Share Posted September 24, 2012 For dollar value, Gibson did you no favors. It probably sounds as sweet as could be. Here's a ballpark estimate...before $7500, after $3500. Wow! That's a big difference. I figured it would at least be close to the value of a 1950's J-45. Thanks for your help. I'll post pics asap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedzep Posted September 24, 2012 Share Posted September 24, 2012 Well... market values aren't stable. I paid $2600 for my all orig '57. I saw a duplicate of mine sell on Ebay last month for $3400. A '43 banner in orig condition is a horse of a different color. Why Gibson couldn't at least hook you up with the teardrop p'guard and the rectangular bridge is beyond me...though maybe it originally had the bellied bridge by '43. Others here can tell you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
let.the.girl.play Posted September 25, 2012 Author Share Posted September 25, 2012 Well... market values aren't stable. I paid $2600 for my all orig '57. I saw a duplicate of mine sell on Ebay last month for $3400. A '43 banner in orig condition is a horse of a different color. Why Gibson couldn't at least hook you up with the teardrop p'guard and the rectangular bridge is beyond me...though maybe it originally had the bellied bridge by '43. Others here can tell you. I agree with you about market values for vintage guitars. I thought that the fact that the work was done by GIbson in the 50's would help the value a bit more. The wood is bare under the pickguard and bridge and therefore would necessitate refinishing these areas should I decide to do this. My luthier says leave it alone. It is an incredibly light guitar and sounds amazing. Very wide grain Adirondack top. Thanks for your comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedzep Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 Oh yeah, you want to leave it alone and enjoy the great tone. You have a gem in hand either way. Enjoy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvguit Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 You can't just leave us hanging with out pictures! C'mon LTGP! Congrats BTW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrorod Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 For dollar value, Gibson did you no favors. It probably sounds as sweet as could be. Here's a ballpark estimate...before $7500, after $3500. Gibson repair should change its 'slogan' to "When well enough, ain,t just enough".... . They 'really' seemed oblivious to keeping things 'original' to the 'vintage'......back in the day... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 Gibson repair should change its 'slogan' to "When well enough, ain,t just enough".... . They 'really' seemed oblivious to keeping things 'original' to the 'vintage'......back in the day... Remember, Rod, guitars like this one and my '48 J-45 were just considered "old guitars" back in the 50's and 60's. Gibson thought they were doing us a big favor by "updating" our guitars when we sent them back for repair. This seems to have especially been true when guitars went in for a neck re-set, a re-fret, or a worn fretboard replacement. As long as the neck was off the guitar, the top was fair game. Wouldn't want any of those nasty teardrop pickguards and soundholes with wear around them, would we? I know they meant well. I just wish they had left well enough alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfden1 Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 I agree with you about market values for vintage guitars. I thought that the fact that the work was done by GIbson in the 50's would help the value a bit more. You would think so, since it's a factory refinish and hopefully done correctly. Unfortunately (and not without reason) the market doesn't work that way. You can expect a 50% discount off the retail price for the refinish alone (factory refinish or not). Add in the changed p/g and bridge and the price quoted earlier is most likely pretty close to what you could expect to get, no matter how good the guitar sounds. Such a shame. Originality is king, especially on a desirable vintage guitar like that one. Back in the day though, people didn't know that and often refinished or modified some fine guitars. Makes the all original ones even more rare (and valuable) but sucks for the ones that have been too much reworked to retain much originality. On the other hand, it can be a good deal for someone with limited finances looking for vintage tone and who doesn't care too much about how original it is. Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfden1 Posted September 29, 2012 Share Posted September 29, 2012 Oh yeah, forgot to add. Pics please or it didn't happen :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
let.the.girl.play Posted October 6, 2012 Author Share Posted October 6, 2012 You would think so, since it's a factory refinish and hopefully done correctly. Unfortunately (and not without reason) the market doesn't work that way. You can expect a 50% discount off the retail price for the refinish alone (factory refinish or not). Add in the changed p/g and bridge and the price quoted earlier is most likely pretty close to what you could expect to get, no matter how good the guitar sounds. Such a shame. Originality is king, especially on a desirable vintage guitar like that one. Back in the day though, people didn't know that and often refinished or modified some fine guitars. Makes the all original ones even more rare (and valuable) but sucks for the ones that have been too much reworked to retain much originality. On the other hand, it can be a good deal for someone with limited finances looking for vintage tone and who doesn't care too much about how original it is. Dennis Thanks to all for the expert comments. My camera is busted so no pics till I get it fixed or have the cash to buy a new one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfden1 Posted October 6, 2012 Share Posted October 6, 2012 Your welcome, and sorry about the pics. Please do post some though when you can. Refinished or not, you have a fine old guitar. Play it, enjoy it, treasure it for what it is, and add your own mojo. It will increase in value over time, just not as much as an original one. Best, Dennis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 The FON, square neck block and lack of a truss rod indicate your J-45 probably dates from late 1943. I have seen Banner guitars that Gibson "restored" and they do seem to have come back with whatever bridge and pickguard Gibson was slapping on their guitars at the time. It may simply have been that Gibson just did not have a supply of the old style pickguards and bridges any longer and put on what they were currently using. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
527 Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Gibson did keep records on guitars returned to the factory. You could always research and see if the FON appears in the log books for returns and that may give you some details on the work done. The reason I mention this is that many people say the work was "factory done" to pretend that was somehow more correct and won't hurt the value. Rarely do you see any verification that Gibson did in fact do the work. Part of the reason I bring this up is that the neck reset as we know is a recent invention and I don't know that Gibson was performing them in the 1950's. Is it possible the guitar's top is a replacement? Seeing a new bridge, guard, and finish would make me suspect total replacement of that part. Some pictures obviously would be a big help. I'd guess around $3000 for value without seeing pictures. Around half what a completely original guitar would go for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 My wife owns an old J-200 that at some point in its life had been sent back to Gibson for work. Gibson actually stamped the FON (this guitar was built well before Gibson started doing this as a standard practice) into the back of the headstock. I always assumed this was their way of identifying the guitar as having been restored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 My wife owns an old J-200 that at some point in its life had been sent back to Gibson for work. Gibson actually stamped the FON (this guitar was built well before Gibson started doing this as a standard practice) into the back of the headstock. I always assumed this was their way of identifying the guitar as having been restored. When I sent my old J-45 back to Gibson for work in 1968, one of the many odd things they did was stamp the FON on the back of the headstock. I scratched my head about that one for quite a while, wondering if it had always been there and I had just missed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Gibson did keep records on guitars returned to the factory. You could always research and see if the FON appears in the log books for returns and that may give you some details on the work done. Is it possible the guitar's top is a replacement? Seeing a new bridge, guard, and finish would make me suspect total replacement of that part. Some pictures obviously would be a big help. That's a real possibility. When I sent my 1948-1950 back to Gibson in 1968 to re-glue the top, they re-topped it instead, plus new bridge, new style pickguard, etc. A careful examination of the top braces with a mirror should tell the owner if the top has been replaced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
527 Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 When I sent my old J-45 back to Gibson for work in 1968, one of the many odd things they did was stamp the FON on the back of the headstock. I scratched my head about that one for quite a while, wondering if it had always been there and I had just missed it. Sounds typical for a factory repair, they tracked the parts & guitars by FON or serial to return the right parts to the right project & customer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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