copyright protection

[zeebee]

When a musician posts a tune on myspace or any of the other internet sharing sites, whats to prevent a unscrupulous theft of the work. Is there legal protection for the artist(s).

[ninety1vee]

hell no

[John Lee Walker]

Not sure about the website, but if they do or don't I'm sure there is a waiver of some sort posted in fine print. If you're going to put original music on the internet it's always a good idea to CYA in some regard. For years I used the 'poor man's copyright' - simply include your lyrics and an audiotape/cd (or it can be written music) in a sealed envelope and send it to yourself certified mail, sign for it and store it unopened in a secure place. Always a good idea to publish/copyright before putting your stuff out there.

[Taylor Player]

Excellent idea John....

 

Have you ever had to defend any of your work? I am just wondering how successfull that method would be and would it hold up in court. It sure sounds like an inexpensive way to "prove" your own work.

[zeebee]

Not sure about the website' date=' but if they do or don't I'm sure there is a waiver of some sort posted in fine print. If you're going to put original music on the internet it's always a good idea to CYA in some regard. For years I used the 'poor man's copyright' - simply include your lyrics and an audiotape/cd (or it can be written music) in a sealed envelope and send it to yourself certified mail, sign for it and store it unopened in a secure place. Always a good idea to publish/copyright before putting your stuff out there. [/quote']

 

 

OK forgive the ignorance on my part but whats involved in publishing/copyrighting.

[jefleppard]

Not sure about the website' date=' but if they do or don't I'm sure there is a waiver of some sort posted in fine print. If you're going to put original music on the internet it's always a good idea to CYA in some regard. For years I used the 'poor man's copyright' - simply include your lyrics and an audiotape/cd (or it can be written music) in a sealed envelope and send it to yourself certified mail, sign for it and store it unopened in a secure place. Always a good idea to publish/copyright before putting your stuff out there. [/quote']

 

+1. at myspace, there is a check box in the 'edit profile' section that asks if you'd allow the track to be downloaded.

[Wayne]

When a musician posts a tune on myspace or any of the other internet sharing sites' date=' whats to prevent a unscrupulous theft of the work. Is there legal protection for the artist(s).[/quote']

 

Original work is copyrighted as soon as it is created. If you ever want to recover damages though, the work MUST be registered with the Copyright Office. Mailing it to yourself doesnt help you DO anything about theft. Use the stamps to mail it to the copyright office instead. Music can be bulk copyrighted so you dont have to pay for each composition if you are short on cash. For the US, www.copyright.gov has all the forms and info you need.

[John Lee Walker]

<<so you dont have to pay for each composition if you are short on cash>>

 

Hence the monicker 'poor man's copyright'...before I got a publishing deal I was, indeed, a very poor man hah. If you don't have the cash, this is merely an alternative. BTW, I know of a case where it did stand in court and the poor writer collected - David Wayne Hungate sued Acuff-Rose in Nashville and won.

[solacematt]

I read somewhere that myspace actually does keep record of when songs go up on a music page.

[Wayne]

I read somewhere that myspace actually does keep record of when songs go up on a music page.

 

 

That still leaves you having the burden of proof. "well your honor, see here, I put this song up on myspace on xx/xx/xx and Brilliant Spleen recorded it on xx/xx/xx + 1. My lawyers have contacted the myspace lawyers for corroboration, and...."

 

save yourself the trouble. You can copyright numerous compositions/arrangements at one time for something like $10-20 total. You dont have to be rich to register copyright.

[ksdaddy]

So what about patents? I know it's altogether different but has anyone pursued a patent on an invention? I don't care about ever marketing this thing, I would just like the documentation.

[Doc]

Beware of the "terms of use" you agree to when joining these sites. Oftentimes, everything you upload becomes the property of the site (e.g. your photos are owned by Facebook). In many instances, people simply agree to them in order to join. To be fair, it isn't uncommon for a site to alter their policy after an outcry (I believe this occurred with Myspace and songs).

 

Ditto on the so-called "poor man's copyright". Recording a song and writing down the lyrics are more than enough to have your song copyrighted. No need to mail it to yourself. Songs must be registered with the Copyright Office in order for you to have any legal recourse in court. In reality, unless you're a big shot, most conflicts wouldn't end up in federal court. In order to protect yourself, register your tunes. It also doesn't hurt to be registered with a performing rights organization such as BMI or ASCAP (in the U.S).

 

I'm a copyright attorney as well as a working musician, so I have an evolving perspective on mp3 sharing (aka "theft").

 

A lot of my music is available on sites such as Pandora and LastFM, online "radio" sites that allow the sharing of music via streaming. I have mixed feelings about these sites. On one hand, they get the tunes out there. On the other, people are less likely to buy your music if they can stream it for free. For instance, it isn't uncommon for someone to listen to a favorite song on Myspace a few dozen times instead of purchasing it on iTunes. The endless free streaming is one reason I dislike Rhapsody.

 

We're living in a odd time -- mp3's are the wave of the future. However, people still expect you to release a CD. The vast majority of my music sales comes from live shows. The 30+ crowd is most likely to pay for a CD. Those under 30 are more likely to buy a t-shirt, pat you on the back, or, perhaps, purchase one or two tracks from iTunes. I encourage touring musicians to bring along TONS of non-music merch (I.e. things that can't be downloaded).

 

Online CD retailers are starting to go under. Milesofmusic.com, an excellent Americana CD website, recently shut its doors. These days, I rely mostly on CD Baby and iTunes for online sales.

 

For indie musicians, it's probably best to shrug your shoulders and get the music out there. I've run into random fans who simply heard our first record on Pandora. Not only did they buy posters, t-shirts, and our new CD, but they were also generous contributors to the tip jar.

 

In sum, illegal downloading and legal streaming have a positive side, so I try not to envision ridiculous scenarios where my music would be stolen. Simply register your stuff, get it out there, and thank your lucky stars whenever music generates money. Cuz...you're likely to spend it on more guitars.

[QuestionMark]

If you file your song with the Library of Congress/US Copyright Office then there is a legal record with the government that the song is yours as of the date it is filed. From there...the burden is on the other party to prove that your song is theirs...meaning, if it is...then, there would be a record of it filed by them with the Library of Congress/US Copyright Office with a date earlier than yours. On the other hand, if there is...and they can prove you had reasonable access to hearing the song and potentially intentionally infringing on their copyright...your song is really theirs. The law itself allows for the possibility that two original works can have coincidental similarities that would not infringe on one another's copyright...with the deal breaker being the question of was there reasonable access to the other party having access to hearing the song (to be able to copy from it.)

 

In the case of the writers of She's So Fine vs. George Harrison's My Sweet Lord...the copyright owners were able to show that there was a similarity in an identifying piece of the music between the two. That in itself did not constitute a copyright infringement by My Sweet Lord on She's So Fine. A lot of music has coincidental similarities. What caused the copyright owners of She's So Fine to win their case that My Sweet Lord infringed on their copyright was they were able to prove that George Harrison had reasonable access to hearing She's So Fine and was in fact very familiar with the song. Likely cause of it being a big hit as well as possibly that he owned a copy of the Shangri-La's recording of it (not sure if that was so...just speculating here) or that he was quoted somewhere as saying how it was one of his favorite songs or something like that (again, not sure of the specifics). With reasonable access of his knowing how the song goes proven (however, it was proven), it was ruled that My Sweet Lord infringed on She's So Fine's copyright...and George had to pay some bucks he earned on My Sweet Lord to the owners of She's So Fine.

 

What's interesting about this is that George sincerely insisted all along that he did not ever think about She's So Fine or intentionally copy it when he wrote My Sweet Lord. But, in terms of the copyright infringement, none of that mattered. What mattered was that the songs were similar and George Harrison had reasonable access to the song She's So Fine, plus it was challenged in court and My Sweet Lord generated income. Had it not been proveable that George knew of the song She's So Fine, even if the two songs were similar, no copyright infringement would have occurred. Or, if My Sweet Lord never made any money...it never would have never have been challenged in a court (due to the costs) because there'd be no money to recover if an infringement possibly occurred.

 

As you can see, it all gets very complicated. But, to protect your song...a simple filing with the Library of Congress/US Copyright Office would protect you. In case, your song ever made money and it became reasonably accessible to others who then heard your song and then wrote a significant;y similar song, and made tons of money from it.

 

By the way...ideas are not copyrightable. They're only ideas and people can have the same idea, pull the same idea from thin air (or where ever they come from), etc. Its the music and lyrics that are copyrightable. Also, titles are not copyrightable. Songs can share the same title, as many do, and not infringe on a copyright.

 

I'm not an attorney, just a songwriter who has researched the subject as all songwriters should.

 

I hope this has been helpful.

 

QM