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Gibson "Factory Seconds"??

#1 User is offline   trapdoorspider 

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Posted 03 December 2008 - 06:11 PM

How can you tell if you are buying a Gibson "factory second" or refurbished guitar? Does Gibson mark them in some way, like they do with Epiphones? Several sellers on eBay offer "brand-new" Les Pauls and SGs and insist they are not "factory seconds." Well, how can I tell?
1974 SG Standard
1976 Gibson S-1
1978 Gibson L-6
1990 SG Double 90
1991 SG Special
1998 SG-Z
2005 SG Standard
2005 Epiphone Elitist EB3
2007 SG Menace
2007 SG Reissue Bass
2008 SG Zoot Suit
2010 SG Standard
plus 20 other Gibsons and Stratocasters ...

#2 User is offline   Tim Plains 

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Posted 03 December 2008 - 06:19 PM

Contact Gibson and they will tell you they stopped selling seconds, or B-stock, in 1985.
Before '85, they'd have a 2 stamped in the back of the headstock.
What you should do is to get the serial number, email it to Gibson and ask for the guitar's model number.
A desertburst Les Paul Standard's model number will look like this: LP5+DBNH1
That 1 on the end means it's not B-stock. If it's a 2, it's B-stock.
Tim

#3 User is offline   Custom.... 

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Posted 03 December 2008 - 06:44 PM

wow R9 you certianly have some indepth answers.
CUSTOM

#4 User is offline   Tim Plains 

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Posted 03 December 2008 - 06:55 PM

I try...
Tim

#5 User is offline   Flight959 

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Posted 03 December 2008 - 10:37 PM

Quote

Contact Gibson and they will tell you they stopped selling seconds, or B-stock, in 1985.
Before '85, they'd have a 2 stamped in the back of the headstock.
What you should do is to get the serial number, email it to Gibson and ask for the guitar's model number.
A desertburst Les Paul Standard's model number will look like this: LP5+DBNH1
That 1 on the end means it's not B-stock. If it's a 2, it's B-stock.


Gibson stopped "stamping" seconds in 85... Alot of guitars still come out of the factory today with flaws however they just dont declare or sell it as a second anymore..

Flight959

#6 User is offline   MikeRom 

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Posted 04 December 2008 - 02:45 AM

Quote


Gibson stopped "stamping" seconds in 85... Alot of guitars still come out of the factory today with flaws however they just dont declare or sell it as a second anymore..

Flight959




[-(

#7 User is offline   Tim Plains 

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Posted 04 December 2008 - 04:19 AM

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Gibson stopped "stamping" seconds in 85... Alot of guitars still come out of the factory today with flaws however they just dont declare or sell it as a second anymore..

Fair enough, but what do you consider a factory second? Minor issues that don't affect how the guitar plays or sounds...like the binding around a few frets not being perfect? One of the side markers on my Custom doesn't line up perfectly with the rest of them...is the guitar B-stock? The first LP I almost bought had a small black mark on the back of the neck...B-stock? Does a misaligned pickup make a guitar B-stock? My answer to all of the above is no.

B-stock mean's there is a serious issue with the guitar that most likely cannot be corrected. These minor things that some people complain about are not serious issues. They buy a Gibson and expect absolute perfection....unfortunately, that's not always possible. The binding isn't perfect...the finish isn't perfect...don't buy the frick'n guitar! Problem solved.

If guitars were things that you purchased and hung on your wall behind a piece of glass, then yeah...I could see the need for absolute perfection.

Have you ever seen an image of a Gibson employee feeding a brand new Les Paul to a ban saw? That's B-stock.
Tim

#8 User is offline   t.a.f.k.a.i. 

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Posted 04 December 2008 - 07:22 AM

i heard that if the top isnt perfect , they just spray them gold .

=P~
THE ARTIST FORMERLY KNOWN AS IAN

#9 User is offline   SRV-Zeppelin 

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Posted 04 December 2008 - 08:06 AM

Quote

i heard that if the top isnt perfect , they just spray them gold .

=P~


Ooh... ouch!

By the way... shouldn't your signature read, "The Artist FORMERLY Known as Ian?"


#10 User is offline   t.a.f.k.a.i. 

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Posted 04 December 2008 - 08:13 AM

THANKS =P~
THE ARTIST FORMERLY KNOWN AS IAN

#11 User is offline   SRV-Zeppelin 

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Posted 04 December 2008 - 08:17 AM

Much better!


#12 User is offline   SRV-Zeppelin 

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Posted 04 December 2008 - 08:20 AM

Nice goldtop by the way... that must be a b-stock R6, eh?


#13 User is offline   t.a.f.k.a.i. 

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Posted 04 December 2008 - 08:33 AM

i believe so =P~
THE ARTIST FORMERLY KNOWN AS IAN

#14 User is offline   Thundergod 

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Posted 04 December 2008 - 08:54 AM

Quote


Gibson stopped "stamping" seconds in 85... Alot of guitars still come out of the factory today with flaws however they just dont declare or sell it as a second anymore..

Flight959





Why would they? Almost 75% of the production gets dented at GC by stupid a-holes anyway.

#15 User is offline   britabe 

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Posted 04 December 2008 - 01:46 PM

MF has scratch n dent traditionals...i assume its because these said a*&holes at MF scratched and dented them at the store
color me confused...
2008 Gibson les paul traditional goldtop
2006 Epi les paul standard (w/upgrades)
1991 RI 62' Fender tele (nashville mods)
2007 Epi John Lennon revolution casino ( project guitar 90% complete)
1986 Peavey t-60

2006 fender hot rod deville
1980 mesa boogie mk II-B

#16 User is offline   trapdoorspider 

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Posted 04 December 2008 - 03:15 PM

Thanks, Gents. Yeah, I was wondering because I bought a brand-new 2008 Les Paul Studio as a store-liquidation, and it just seemed to have more cosmetic issues than my other Gibsons, so I was wondering if this was a second or something. For one thing, there's a definite slight "ridge" you can feel along the fretboard/neck seam. It's all glued down nicely (no gaps or cracks in the paint or finish), but it's almost like they didn't make the fretboard wide enough. I've never had a Studio, but you can't feel that on any of my SGs (I have 12 of them).
1974 SG Standard
1976 Gibson S-1
1978 Gibson L-6
1990 SG Double 90
1991 SG Special
1998 SG-Z
2005 SG Standard
2005 Epiphone Elitist EB3
2007 SG Menace
2007 SG Reissue Bass
2008 SG Zoot Suit
2010 SG Standard
plus 20 other Gibsons and Stratocasters ...

#17 User is offline   Flight959 

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Posted 05 December 2008 - 01:26 AM

Some more useful info with markings I have never seen before..

Gibson often marked inferior quality guitars as "seconds", and sold them at a discount to dealers or employees. These markings were stamped into the wood on the back of the peghead. A "2" stamp is sometimes seen, designating a "second", which had some cosmetic flaw. If there is a serial number on the back of the peghead, the "2" is usually seen centered above or below it. Also sometimes stamped was "CULL", which is another designation of a second. Again, this stamp is seen on the back of the peghead. The worse Gibson reject is the "BGN" stamp, designating that instrument as a "bargin" guitar. These were only sold to employees at substantial discounts. This stamp is also seen on the back of the peghead. Sometimes the "BGN" is stamped vertically with the "N" below the "G" which is below the "B". BGN instruments weren't acceptable to Gibson as sellable to the public.
All second instruments are usually worth less than the same guitar that is not a second (given condition as the same). BGN instruments are worth less than a second instrument because these tend to have some fairly serious cosmetic flaw.

Taken from the internet...

Flight959

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