[Blueblooded]

heymisterk, on 31 January 2013 - 07:23 PM, said:

Awesome: I want the portion of my taxes used to pay for the Iraq war and the wall street bailout. After all, I received no benefit from either..

Don't take this wrong, but you might want to just move to Japan. You don't seem to be very patriotic, have a lot of issues with U.S. policy and don't seem to care much to support your country or fellow Americans.

And do you understand the impact of the trade offs of operating your hybrid vs. a comparable fossil fueled vehicle? From cradle to grave?

[Blueblooded]

Heymistrk - Sorry, that may sound a little harsh.

I'm not in favor of the control the oil companies have either, but there are already taxes our Federal and State governments put on fuel that go towards building and maintaining the roads you drive that Hybrid car on. That's how those of us driving the internal combustion or "regular" cars as you put it, pay for the roads. And you're benefiting since you aren't paying for at the pumps. Consider that the old batteries from plug-in electrics will be around creating problems long after you and I are gone. Likewise, producing electricity is not free nor clean either.

[stein]

heymisterk, on 31 January 2013 - 07:14 PM, said:

I disagree. You want to buy a car that pollutes more? Fine, but put your money where your right foot is: I am tired of subsidizing Big Oil in the form of tax breaks. Let people who drive gas guzzlers around town subsidize it.

Mr. K:

I got no problem with you taking a tax break or a tax credit for your expenditure for what you believe in. Tax breaks are meant that way, in that the ideal is that you have paid your taxes, you just decided where you want them to go. It's the same idea as donations, or giving to a church. You are still paying your fair share, you just decide you want your taxes to go somewhere else.

But taxing each other because we want to force or encourage others to do as we want, that's like having someone else pay for what you want. I could easily decide there are things you do that I don't like or impose on me, and require you pay taxes for it. If we are making each other to pay, where does it stop? Where are you and I going to GET the money to pay the taxes we impose on each other?

The money has to come from somewhere. It means one or both of us has to PRODUCE something that makes money to pay the taxes in the first place. As a country, demanding money and taxes from each other to "solve" something isn't going to get us anywhere but in debt. WE have to produce, make actual product. Productivity. The more we help each other to produce, the more there is to go around.

As for tax breaks for money spent to help the environment, I'm all for it. But as it is, taxes are paying for "environmental" things that are not able to produce a return, and aren't making us more product for the energy and money spent. A tax break to encourage or help someone produce something cleaner is not the same as spending more resources on a thing than it can hope to return. Taxing others to pay for things that don't have a return uses more resources than we have, and results in less to go around.

We can't all look to the government to pay for everything, because the government is US. We have to put it in the bank to get something out.

[DanvillRob]

heymisterk, on 31 January 2013 - 07:14 PM, said:

I disagree. You want to buy a car that pollutes more? Fine, but put your money where your right foot is: I am tired of subsidizing Big Oil in the form of tax breaks. Let people who drive gas guzzlers around town subsidize it.

Did we not subsidize your Prius when you claimed your tax refund?

Seems to me you can claim a $7500 rebate for buying a Prius... why should we subsidize your choice of vehicle?

Don't you think you should put YOUR money where your right foot is?

[Riffster]

Prius on Top Gear, skip to 3:30

[pippy]

Riffster, on 04 February 2013 - 09:35 AM, said:

Prius on Top Gear, skip to 3:30...

Interesting clip.

Of course, the 'economical' argument falls down when you take into consideration that the Prius was being driven flat-out - i.e. in such a manner as to be as inefficient (fuel-wise) as possible - but interesting nonetheless.

As they conclude in the clip; change your driving style - not your car!

P.

[retrosurfer1959]

Bar none Chrysler Lebaroan Convertible it was a chrysler, it was the first year they made it and my wife picked if off a mirrored rotating display in the showroom because it was a fully loaded top of the line model those are all bad idea's and combined it was a nightmare. it was so bad we kept a cardboard box in the trunk that we put all the parts that literally fell off of the car. most of them were all decorative crap so it wasn't worth even taking it for warranty service. It also was turbo charged which was strange because the way that had built it it would barely run if it was over 100 degrees and we live in Phoenix. Thank god Arizona had lemon laws in place but they didn't have to take the car back unless they wanted to they just had to fix it whatever it was that broke and reimburse you for any expenses and they sure didn't wantwant the car back so they would just pay for all repairs and give us a new loaner car whenever it was in the shop which was about 40% of the time after almost three years they just paid it off gave us 2000 dollars and told us not to bring it back for service. When i took it to a dealer to try and trade it in right after they paid us for it and cleared the title they gave me $ 129 in exchange for the car. when I asked them where they came up with that number they said it was the cost of towing it away which they figured we would be doing in the next week because the transmission had no reverse and only second and third gear at the time, and that transmission had been replaced five weeks earlier. My favorite stupid thing it did though was if you hit a bump of any kind even a manhole cover at least one of the windows would fall into the door cavity. and usually shatter when it hit the bottom. It happened even if anyone closed the door with any power there was two very small plastic clips that looked like the clips you used on bread bags back then. We also had 11 McPherson struts on the car in 26 months you would go around a corner and the front tires would basically just collapse up into the wheel well. It was truly a nightmare and even though it really cost us almost nothing I think we spent something like 600 dollars during the time we owned it. Even as bad as it was my wife loved the way it looked though and she actually waned to buy another a ew years laer when they were getting good reports. that was probably the only time I told my wife hell know I was done with chrysler

[DanvillRob]

retrosurfer1959, on 04 February 2013 - 10:41 AM, said:

Bar none Chrysler Lebaroan Convertible it was a chrysler, it was the first year they made it and my wife picked if off a mirrored rotating display in the showroom because it was a fully loaded top of the line model those are all bad idea's and combined it was a nightmare. it was so bad we kept a cardboard box in the trunk that we put all the parts that literally fell off of the car. most of them were all decorative crap so it wasn't worth even taking it for warranty service. It also was turbo charged which was strange because the way that had built it it would barely run if it was over 100 degrees and we live in Phoenix. Thank god Arizona had lemon laws in place but they didn't have to take the car back unless they wanted to they just had to fix it whatever it was that broke and reimburse you for any expenses and they sure didn't wantwant the car back so they would just pay for all repairs and give us a new loaner car whenever it was in the shop which was about 40% of the time after almost three years they just paid it off gave us 2000 dollars and told us not to bring it back for service. When i took it to a dealer to try and trade it in right after they paid us for it and cleared the title they gave me $ 129 in exchange for the car. when I asked them where they came up with that number they said it was the cost of towing it away which they figured we would be doing in the next week because the transmission had no reverse and only second and third gear at the time, and that transmission had been replaced five weeks earlier. My favorite stupid thing it did though was if you hit a bump of any kind even a manhole cover at least one of the windows would fall into the door cavity. and usually shatter when it hit the bottom. It happened even if anyone closed the door with any power there was two very small plastic clips that looked like the clips you used on bread bags back then. We also had 11 McPherson struts on the car in 26 months you would go around a corner and the front tires would basically just collapse up into the wheel well. It was truly a nightmare and even though it really cost us almost nothing I think we spent something like 600 dollars during the time we owned it. Even as bad as it was my wife loved the way it looked though and she actually waned to buy another a ew years laer when they were getting good reports. that was probably the only time I told my wife hell know I was done with chrysler

Retro, no worries...you tax dollars insure that they'll continue to make cars of this quality!

[milod]

Retro...

Although I come from a traditional "Chrysler" family... That LeBaron convertible seems to have been a horrid engineering snafu. We rented one on a work visit to Oahu about 20 years ago and stuff kept falling off it. I wondered why the car rental company didn't complain when we reported various mechanical problems when turning it in.

EDIT: Rob... Yupper in spades.

m

[retrosurfer1959]

DanvillRob, on 04 February 2013 - 11:37 AM, said:

Retro, no worries...you tax dollars insure that they'll continue to make cars of this quality!

Isn't that the saddest truth i just bought a truck and I was limited to Toyota and Ford because i wanted a truck from one of the companies that hadn't taken any government buy out's. Ended up with the Toyota mostly because Ford couldn't even get me the truck I wanted without having it custom built. The sad part is what I wanted was just a regular old fashioned truck with two doors and a bed you could actually carry something in. I wanted as little extra crap on it as possible and Ford doesn't seem to be able to do that anymore. Everything has become these ridiculous cowboy cadillac's with four doors automatic everything with hot and cold air blowing on your but through the seat and a five foot bed that won't carry anything larger than I could put in my Jeep. I could order one and wait two months and pay for everything I didn't want which is pretty sad really. Thank god there talking about bringing back the F-100 for a smaller light duty rig. Until then I guess I'm carrying my art show set-up in a nice simple Toyota Tacoma.

[DanvillRob]

retrosurfer1959, on 05 February 2013 - 04:21 AM, said:

Isn't that the saddest truth i just bought a truck and I was limited to Toyota and Ford because i wanted a truck from one of the companies that hadn't taken any government buy out's. Ended up with the Toyota mostly because Ford couldn't even get me the truck I wanted without having it custom built. The sad part is what I wanted was just a regular old fashioned truck with two doors and a bed you could actually carry something in. I wanted as little extra crap on it as possible and Ford doesn't seem to be able to do that anymore. Everything has become these ridiculous cowboy cadillac's with four doors automatic everything with hot and cold air blowing on your but through the seat and a five foot bed that won't carry anything larger than I could put in my Jeep. I could order one and wait two months and pay for everything I didn't want which is pretty sad really. Thank god there talking about bringing back the F-100 for a smaller light duty rig. Until then I guess I'm carrying my art show set-up in a nice simple Toyota Tacoma.

I know...it's sad..... and I have to buy a new truck for one of my guys next month. I have 14 guys spread throughout the US and each of them have a Ford Ranger.

When the trucks get 150,000 miles, I replace the Ranger....well..... Ford quit making the Ranger....not sure what I'll do next month. The F150 is significantly more expensive,
and of course, if I buy the 'new guy' a F150, the others will want one too!

We promote that our buses and 100% made in the US, and our company is 100% owned and operated in the US. So we can't show up at a customer's location driving a Toyota, even if it was made/assembled here.

[tlwwalker]

1975 Chevrolet Vega 2 door hatchback.

[stein]

DanvillRob, on 05 February 2013 - 07:44 AM, said:

I know...it's sad..... and I have to buy a new truck for one of my guys next month. I have 14 guys spread throughout the US and each of them have a Ford Ranger.

When the trucks get 150,000 miles, I replace the Ranger....well..... Ford quit making the Ranger....not sure what I'll do next month. The F150 is significantly more expensive,
and of course, if I buy the 'new guy' a F150, the others will want one too!

We promote that our buses and 100% made in the US, and our company is 100% owned and operated in the US. So we can't show up at a customer's location driving a Toyota, even if it was made/assembled here.

This is interesting. The Ranger was really the only game in town for a small pup truck. They sold pretty well, as far as I know, so it seems curious it would be gone. And it's not like it was being pushed out by competition from Jap trucks.

I heard there was a "replacement" Ford was going to do, but I didn't believe it when I heard it. Any idea what that is?

[stein]

retrosurfer1959, on 05 February 2013 - 04:21 AM, said:

Isn't that the saddest truth i just bought a truck and I was limited to Toyota and Ford because i wanted a truck from one of the companies that hadn't taken any government buy out's. Ended up with the Toyota mostly because Ford couldn't even get me the truck I wanted without having it custom built. The sad part is what I wanted was just a regular old fashioned truck with two doors and a bed you could actually carry something in. I wanted as little extra crap on it as possible and Ford doesn't seem to be able to do that anymore. Everything has become these ridiculous cowboy cadillac's with four doors automatic everything with hot and cold air blowing on your but through the seat and a five foot bed that won't carry anything larger than I could put in my Jeep. I could order one and wait two months and pay for everything I didn't want which is pretty sad really. Thank god there talking about bringing back the F-100 for a smaller light duty rig. Until then I guess I'm carrying my art show set-up in a nice simple Toyota Tacoma.

Oh, I should have read. Duh.

I think cars in general have changed. Big cars (or just regular "cars") have been replaced by the larger SUV's, which are smaller than they were.

I think the biggest change in p'ups, mostly, is the trend of extra-cabs with shorter beds. I made the change because for one, as I get older, throwing my crap in the back of the cab as opposed to throwing it through the rear window makes for less climbing around. I miss being able to haul longer stuff, but I don't miss the climbing around to re-arrange. But- it's still just as messy. It means my truck can contain more crap.

I have also re-thought the "ammenities". A WORK truck now must have a seat warmer, by default. If you are actually using your truck, then your back should be sore.

[DanvillRob]

stein, on 05 February 2013 - 08:18 AM, said:

Oh, I should have read. Duh.

I think cars in general have changed. Big cars (or just regular "cars") have been replaced by the larger SUV's, which are smaller than they were.

I think the biggest change in p'ups, mostly, is the trend of extra-cabs with shorter beds. I made the change because for one, as I get older, throwing my crap in the back of the cab as opposed to throwing it through the rear window makes for less climbing around. I miss being able to haul longer stuff, but I don't miss the climbing around to re-arrange. But- it's still just as messy. It means my truck can contain more crap.

I have also re-thought the "ammenities". A WORK truck now must have a seat warmer, by default. If you are actually using your truck, then your back should be sore.

Guess we'll find out soon what will replace the Ranger..... I refuse to buy a GM or Dodge truck, and for business reasons, I don't want a foreign truck.

I'm driving a 1998 Ranger now. I bought it new in 1998, (I bought 6 at one time back then), and this is the last one of the bunch.

When we buy the new truck, (whatever we decide to buy), I'll sell off my 1998 Ranger, and take the 2004 Ranger that we're taking out of service.

[milod]

I'm convinced that federal stuff basically brought the inclination to the "cowboy Cadillac" around here.

Instead of a roomy cab, you now have a mandatory console between bucket seats 'stedda a bench seat that would handle three people or two people and a batch of supplies.

That's so the air bags work. Of course, since air bags can kill small people, most of 'em seem to have the switch to turn off the passenger air bag, thus rendering the two buckets and console ridiculous, but they've gotta be there regardless.

So in order to come in from the ranch with just two people and haul supplies home in a pickup, you've gotta have at least a club cab. To carry three people, you almost have to have a crew cab, especially if you wanna take supplies home in the rain or snow.

Or... you can go with a topper on the pickup box that then has to be removed if you're hauling anything bigger.

m

[stein]

DanvillRob, on 05 February 2013 - 09:34 AM, said:

Guess we'll find out soon what will replace the Ranger..... I refuse to buy a GM or Dodge truck, and for business reasons, I don't want a foreign truck.

I'm driving a 1998 Ranger now. I bought it new in 1998, (I bought 6 at one time back then), and this is the last one of the bunch.

When we buy the new truck, (whatever we decide to buy), I'll sell off my 1998 Ranger, and take the 2004 Ranger that we're taking out of service.

I really don't know much about the "bailout"...I know just enough about it to know that what I know is likely wrong.

I am home now, because the alternater went out in my Chevy, and I had to replace it. The new one said "rebuilt by Napa in Mexico" or something like that. Lifetime warrenty, and only 120 bucks with core exchange.

I am confused, because for the Chevy, the "rebuilt in Mexico" I say, "cool...that means 'origonal equipment'". It's about as close to traditional auto parts as you can get. By traditional, I mean a part from the same supplier, or rebuilt. As opposed to an aftermarket made to work, but actually a different part. OR, as is more and more the case, a specific part so engineered that only that part works for that vehicle, and the price is highly inflated.

I mean, I'm glad a rebuilt alternater is still just an alternater and doesn't cost 400 bucks, but at the same time, I'm sad and a little pissed it means "Mexico".

The tow was courtesy of a Freightliner powered by Mercedes.

I'm thinking you might have look into building trucks and light trucks.

[DanvillRob]

stein, on 05 February 2013 - 02:40 PM, said:

I really don't know much about the "bailout"...I know just enough about it to know that what I know is likely wrong.

I am home now, because the alternater went out in my Chevy, and I had to replace it. The new one said "rebuilt by Napa in Mexico" or something like that. Lifetime warrenty, and only 120 bucks with core exchange.

I am confused, because for the Chevy, the "rebuilt in Mexico" I say, "cool...that means 'origonal equipment'". It's about as close to traditional auto parts as you can get. By traditional, I mean a part from the same supplier, or rebuilt. As opposed to an aftermarket made to work, but actually a different part. OR, as is more and more the case, a specific part so engineered that only that part works for that vehicle, and the price is highly inflated.

I mean, I'm glad a rebuilt alternater is still just an alternater and doesn't cost 400 bucks, but at the same time, I'm sad and a little pissed it means "Mexico".

The tow was courtesy of a Freightliner powered by Mercedes.

I'm thinking you might have look into building trucks and light trucks.

Man! ain't that the truth?

As I recall, the 'bail out' for GM did NOT include Delco, (because their workers weren't UAW folk). But I could be wrong.....but that would explain why most of their stuff is
now made eleswhere. Mexico is probably the least offensive place!

[stein]

DanvillRob, on 05 February 2013 - 02:57 PM, said:

Man! ain't that the truth?

As I recall, the 'bail out' for GM did NOT include Delco, (because their workers weren't UAW folk). But I could be wrong.....but that would explain why most of their stuff is
now made eleswhere. Mexico is probably the least offensive place!

Here's the funny part:

I was able to safely get off the road and into a parking lot of an industrial complex. This particular place was a place that does conversions of mini-vans for the handicapped. Mechanics. In fact, a guy even came out with a battery tester and was nice enough to tell me it was likely the alternater.

THAT guy told me I had to have it towed when I politely asked if it could be there a bit while my freind who was with me gave me a ride to get an alternater for it.

The tow truck driver was sporting some modern technology as well: a camera phone, so he could take pictures of all around the truck before he loaded it and strapped it down, and again when he dropped it at my house.

And we wonder what's wrong with this country?

That's approxamately $65.80 in taxes from my paycheck I would have paid in taxes had I gone to work today (maybe a little less for being a couple hours late), about 50 bucks my employer would have paid in taxes for the pleasure of employing me, and problably another 40-100 bucks my employer would have paid in taxes on the profit made from my labors. That's enough for problably a "green" alternater.

If we were in MILODS country, even though all involved was successful in witnessing or participating in the replacement of an alternater, I doubt we would have been able to perform a successful rescue by the time we figured out the litgation and logistical aspects of it.

[zigzag]

FYI, the Ford Ranger is the Mazda B2300. I've had my B2300 since 1997. The side windows are hand cranked.