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P Dawg. I was sorta careful to not inject any of my personal opinions into my post and just mentioned a couple things which I understand to be factual. Your reply gives me the feeling that you interpreted my post as bashing Taylor which is not my intention. I probably left a bit too much unsaid since I don’t want to be too wordy In no way did I suggest that the cheapest and most expensive version of a given Taylor model sound exactly the same. I said they use the exact same CNC milled bracing which is a fact. I obviously understand that using a different wood for the top etc will result in sonic differences and no two pieces of wood are completely identical. Again the point remains true that you get the exact same guitar with different materials and aesthetics at any price range I made no comparison to Gibson or any other mass manufacturer You either missed the point or are incorrect about the bracing. Loading a piece of wood into the CNC is not the same as what I described. I didn’t describe the whole process because I’m not a traditional luthier and I’m not trying to teach you how to be one. Hand carved bracing by a master luthier is objectively superior to mass produced CNC milled bracing in all ways except efficiency and profitability. A traditional luthier is going to progressively carve away at the bracing until he has the least amount of material possible which still offers the necessary amount of reinforcement. This produces a more resonant sound board. A CNC machine is going to invariably make every single piece a bit heavier than it needs to be to account for variables in materials Hopefully we can understand these facts without implying that Taylor guitars are “bad” or sound bad. Of course I realize the vast majority of Gibson and Martin parts are machine made. However Gibson and Martin have custom shops, where when you spend big money, you get a whole different level of craftsmanship. With Taylor you spend big money and you get the same guitar pumped out of the same machines with special materials and aesthetics

So, because I'm a giver and all, I made you your own custom avatar. I call it, "fortyearspickn". You're welcome. 😗

PrarieDog, I have to say we both have the same philosophy about acoustic instrument construction. Using the best, most efficient methods helps to keep models affordable, relatively speaking. Inflation has hit guitars like everything else. Despite mechanization and modern production techniques, quality acoustic guitars still have a lot of hand made input. When I read stories by veteran well known guitarists who bought some of their rarities way back when, I sigh when reading that they paid a couple of hundred dollars or Quid for a vintage guitar that would be valued at $25,000 or higher today. Making guitars is surely not an easy business to be in because so many aspects have to be very carefully watched to maintain a profit margin. I'm seeing a certain brand now based in Scottsdale, AZ trying direct marketing to customers which surely makes their dealers smile. I think they are realizing artificially battered "relics" don't quite have the same buyer appeal that real classics with honest patina, have. I hope they are like Crypto currencies, maybe collected in the future for their novelty value and being questioned as a "what were they thinking?" fad. I'll salute Gibson once again for re-issuing "classics" and not getting too caught up in the make it look old no matter what it takes phenomenon. I'd be just as happy with a 1964 ES-335 reissue as an original because playing a $50,000 guitar makes me a little nervous. In 50 years, that re-issue will have some genuine patina of its own and is likely to climb in value just like the originals that inspired it. I screen copied one of Martin's Facebook ads because it shows the elaborate bracing in their guitars. Doesn't matter if some pieces were entirely machine milled, the focus should be on a extreme degree of bracing making this look like an elephant could stand on it without breaking it. (please don't try that with your pet Elephant!)

You wrote: I was clueless when I was a kid. My guitar was a cheapie Yamaha classical, picked up at the local school band supply shop. Otherwise I borrowed nice electrics from friends. Even later on, I tended to lump brands into uniform, general sounds: Gibsons= full and rich, guitary, Martins=muddy and dark, Taylors=shrill. My dear old Grandma, wanted to give me a nice present when I turned 21 and I knew her financial means were limited so I picked out a $110 Yamaha steel string and told her I'd be happy with that one, and, I was. That was back in 1972 (after completing 3 years of duty in the Air Force) but it's complicated because I also had dual citizenship-a story for another time. My reference for quality acoustics was a Gibson J160e or was it an L160e (?) that a kindred spirited neighbor actually let me take home and practice on for a week. He just called it a "Jumbo" but it had a deep bass resonance I've not encountered since, very low string action-barely enough to avoid fret buzz, and a wide but very thin neck which made making chords easier. I've made do with the Yamaha for over 50 years, still have it, and although the sound output has improved only slightly in over a half century, it's still a $110 guitar which even back then wasn't a lot to pay for a decent acoustic. Not to sound cryptic, but my current acoustic love affair involves a certain 324CE and because I'd like to keep it for a while, that's about all I'm comfortable iwith disclosing. (Warning: I have a very vicious Beaded Dragon lizard loose on the premises who will immediately change over into Jurassic Park mode if a stranger approaches her-now, you've been warned!) The New T sounds sweet to my old ears but I've noticed the factory strings are harder and I have to limit my playing sessions because my left finger pads get sore. Never had that problem with electric strings (I prefer Cleartones and Thomastik-Infeld Power Brites ) and I always thought that acoustic strings weren't as hard on the fingers to fret. My venerable old Yamaha will probably be the only one to go outside in the future but its 50 year old inexpensive case, although still functional, is getting to be on the Woebegone side so I'll need to find a case replacement soon. I won't sell or trade the old Japanese cheapy because of it's sentimental qualities. I did play a lower end Martin at a campfire setting about 15 years ago (loaned) and I thought, this dull sounding thing is a MARTIN? I also sat and listened to someone play what was obviously a higher end Martin because of the amount of Mother of Pearl inlay from the headstock down to the sound hole. Now, it had some sonic presence-I guess one should understand that Chevrolet base models and fully loaded $100K Cadillacs are still built by the same company. From a savvy marketing standpoint, the lowest priced base model acoustic should still have a sound that compares favorably with the more expensive models. Give the lower end buyer a better deal for their money and less profit margin, because when they are ready for that commemorative anniversary model priced ten times higher than the base model, they will still be loyal to the brand. As a side note, I've long been fascinated with the oddball Ovation acoustics with their round carbon fiber (or is it fiberglass?) backs. They do seem to have a slightly different sound than most acoustics. I saw them being used on the Rod Stewart's video of Every Picture Tells a Story and that distinctive Ovation sound came through. i've heard that they are prone to structural problems but that's all I know. Paul Simon used to play a high end Ovation so they must be fairly good. 12 string models to me are like Dobro guitars-I owned a Dobro made by National for a couple of weeks in my 20's because a co-worker owed me money and he said I could have the guitar instead. It was an older model, dirty, and poorly cared for. I put new quality strings on it, cleaned it up, and was just starting to enjoy it when the guy knocked on my door and he had the cash in his hand to pay off the debt as he stated he wanted the guitar back. Being the easy going kind of guy I am, I said, OK, I'll take the money and here's your guitar back with new strings and all cleaned up for you-please take better care of it. End of story. I'll have to have someone show me how to play a 12 string and I have no idea about how they are tuned. (did I mention I've lived in a dark cave most of my life and only come out to see the seasons change?) I recently bought a slide stainless steel sleeve but slide guitar, I'm finding out, is a tough nut I've yet to crack. The sleeve seems too constricting for all but my pinkie finger so I think I'll get a Derek Trucks glass slide sleeve and give that one a whirl. At best, I may eventually be able to squeak out a few slide notes, but the Blues players have no reason whatsoever to worry about me.

So? it’s not like Gibson doesn’t use CNC machines and molds, and mechanical lathes, too. Lots of big machines in those photos of the Gibson factory. Everyone does, unless you are a high end boutique builder. CNCs can still cut along the grain, and can be programmed with more precision than a human with a blade. And to be sure, a human still has to pick out the right piece to place in the guitar. It not all AI and robots, yet. I can assure you there are vast tonal differences between Taylors, they are not “all the same guitar.” And c’mon, every company charges different prices for different styles/woods/appointments in basically the same shape we recognize as a “guitar.” And I guarantee having played just about every style of guitar now, in every price range, I have never heard the sound our Taylor Sinker/RW makes come out of any Gibson guitar, and it blows anyone away who has heard it. Whatever the machines did that day, proves they will one day take over the world. To your point about being able to “buy better:” The only new guitars we have bought, the Urban Ash, and the J-45 Studio we bought for substantially less than full price. Not many “better quality” American guitars can be had for the $800 bucks we dropped on the Urban Ash. The rest of our brood were bought used, and save two, all cost less than a new Gibson Standard j-45 (my pain threshold) The DIF yes, was more, but it was in the low end of the Reverb range for used, and the Taylor 12-fret was nearly half price so close enough to squinch through . So I guess the retail cost for a Taylor is really immaterial. But we do have a great range of sounds and guitars to pick from.

Just found one online with a similar 8 digit S/N to yours. No Made in USA stamp either. They must have discontinued that when they switched to the new 8 digit S/N scheme in 1977.

Taylor is an easy target for people who appreciate traditional luthiery because all of their parts are CNC milled throughout their entire price range. Whether you get their cheapest or most expensive version of a particular model you get the same CNC milled bracing etc Traditionally when making bracing for an acoustic you split the piece of wood with an axe so that it breaks along the grain. You then take those pieces and mill them in a way which maximizes the quartesawn orientation and minimizes grain runoff. Essentially you end up with the smallest lightest piece of wood which maximizes strength and straightness for its given application Taylor does everything by CNC on even their most high end instruments, so you really never get the benefit of traditional luthiery no matter how much you spend With Taylor you get the same guitar at all price ranges. You are just paying for a different type of wood that they inserted into a machine or inlays which are done by a machine or other aesthetic modifications It doesn’t sound like a big deal but for their high end stuff they are charging an amount of money that you could easily spend elsewhere and get a superior instrument

They were. Somewhere in my DVDs I burned one from some VHS Night Flight and other tv shows of the 80's I have a short lived version of The Allmans with the Toler brothers in there, Gregg and Dickey. Really great stuff with them two. rct

One of the Most Underrated Gibson's out there! One of my all time Favorite Guitars. Good luck with the Pickup.

Any positive comments appreciated. lol That is such a perfect sentence for this industry. When everyone is just copying the same two circuits over and over again it really is mostly the positive affirmation that we’re seeking Lovepedal is sorta unique in that they love to clone the Electra Distortion while everyone else does Tube Screamers. If you like the Electra Distortion then Lovepedal has a variety of flavors for you. The Zen Drive is obviously a licensed clone of the Hermida which is actually a good pedal. Hermida was using MOSFETs as clipping diodes like the OCD. The Purple Plexi is one of those LM386 based things. The pinnacle of collectibility in this particular flavor of drive would be the D*A*M Sonic Titan. The LM386 just doesn’t break up the way a tube amp does. It’s fun and convincing for a few minutes but it always sounds like a pedal. It doesn’t sound like an amp. I would never ever recommend spending any big money on a LM386 based object. It is a very cheesy low hanging fruit type option for designers

I don't have any 70's Gibsons but my 1969 ES-335 has no dot in the "i" and the "o" is not a complete circle, open at the top.

Ooh, what did you get? TBH, I never thought I would embrace a Taylor. The usual brightness they are known for hits my ears all wrong. But my better half never had an instrument, and one day last year declared she wanted to learn guitar. I was ecstatic. I sang and played several instruments way back in the last century and always loved music. I had a bit of a chance, but was more interested in being stupid. I put it all aside and went on with what I thought was a life. Anyway, we hiked down to GC and she tried every cheap import acoustic guitar in the room, insisting she didn’t deserve a “good” guitar yet. I knew you often learn better on a quality instrument because they can be easier to play and you aren’t fighting shortcuts. So I finally was able to steer her towards the American made models. Still price conscious, she saw a Taylor Urban Ash GT on clearance. I inwardly cringed when she started to pick it up, but gamely covered my trepidation. I was committed to making sure she got whatever she wanted, as long as it was a decent instrument. I braced myself, saying if this what it takes… It had a surprisingly well-rounded rich sound. None of the Taylor “twang” but still nice trebles. So it came home, along with an unintended, new Gibson J45 Walnut Studio for me 😀 I was clueless when I was a kid. My guitar was a cheapie Yamaha classical, picked up at the local school band supply shop. Otherwise I borrowed nice electrics from friends. Even later on, I tended to lump brands into uniform, general sounds: Gibsons= full and rich, guitary, Martins=muddy and dark, Taylors=shrill. Now that I’ve learned more about tone woods and builds in acoustics all bets are off, and Taylors are welcome at our party. She has several. In fact, one of my favorite guitars, right up there with the DIF, is a Sinker Redwood/EIR Taylor 714ce NAMM special. Unbelievable warm, liquid pure sound pours out of that thing. Now we have all kinds, several versions of acoustics, resonators, and even a few banjos. And we just broke the envelope on electric a couple weeks ago, with a Gibson Lucille hollow body, followed immediately up with a Canadian Godin 5th Ave King Pin that dropped right after we picked up the Lucille. Yes, we have bad GAS. Still can’t warm to a Martin, though. yet to find one I can “hear” with my old metal bashed ears. 😆

Labor consuming work, those repair guys got to love there shops I'm glad I know one

Thanks - I understood the serial # pointed to a 1977 guitar but the lack of Made in USA stamp and the missing in Gibson are throwing me off

The LP is obviously the big dog in this sale, but I’ll be interested in seeing a Garnet Herzog prototype or something if you don’t know, Randy had a really unique distortion sound with tons of sustain and compression. This was achieved with some tube driven distortion units that were custom made for Randy, and later sold commercially as the Garnet Herzog

Your pics do not show up. Based on the S/N it dates to 1977, the first year the 8 digit serial# pattern was used. First and 5th digit designate the year.

I see Bonamassa’s guitar playing sorta the same way I see an autistic person learn to socialize. He paid very close attention to the style of BB, Albert King, Eric Johnson, etc and he mimics them perfectly. except the listener is usually aware of the mimicry and something feels strangely disingenuous about his music. I wish to some day be as great a player and as influential as Bonamassa, but I have no desire to actually listen to his music. I had the pleasure of chatting with Joe at the guitar show they hold at the OC fair grounds. I’m not sure if Joe still goes every year but he was very friendly and welcoming when I met him. He’s really just passionate about guitars and he knows so much about playing guitar and the history and everything. I’d love to hang out with him, get guitar lessons from him etc, but I don’t actually listen to his music at all

This will also melt the finish on a Gibson if left in place for a bit of time The nitro and rubber won’t react instantly, but I still wouldn’t recommend this method.

That's basically what I do, except I usually do one side of the headstock, then remove and replace the strings on the other side.

🤪

Wow thanks for listening to all them songs! You are correct on surmising my disdain for cellular tele-phony, a blight on society. I refuse to carry one in public or be seen staring at the tiny screen while repeatedly pressing on said tiny screen like a naked ape hoping for another banana pellet from the random machine (ok ok that's my cranky old man rant for the day... thinkyewvurrymush)

Thanks for that- you are another forum member who inspired me to write some songs of my own

Agreed, great technique and fluidity but almost like Android Data on Startrek playing it.

Well thanks. I think it's a sign of the times that many folks past 50 are returning to their youthful passions of guitars and music. I will skirt around the brand issue by saying I recently acquired an acoustic-electric from the brand you mentioned. Hand's down, it's one of the nicest acoustics I've ever played and most expensive too. I wouldn't rule out a Gibson acoustic in the future as each guitar has its own unique sound. I can relate to the "shunning" thing- for two consecutive weeks lately, I took out local newspapers ads asking for other interested players to jam with. Not a single phone call so I;m trying to come up with a plan B. Guess I shouldn't have put "Older Rock guitarist" in the ad but I didn't want a bunch of high school kids calling me about joining a band. The search continues.

I purchased this a couple years ago and have seen conflicting things about the dating of it. Serial # is 72657061 The "i" in Gibson appears not to be dotted No "Made in USA" stamped Vertical controls alignment