Guest Farnsbarns Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Anyone tried these... My link Or any other out of phase pup set. I've been really falling in love with the out of phase sound recently and I'm seriously considering a set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krock Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 music radar recommended those pups a few years ago for when people want the tone without pickup rewiring. Btw, I always thought wiring out of phase reduced bass response. According to the little chart on the BKP page its still fairly high "You'll need to experiment with the volume and tone controls until you find the exact tone – but the result is well worth the trouble." http://www.musicrada...een-tone-249786 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimi Mac Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 There are several really good ones on the market... Shed supernaturals Seymour Duncan Greenies And Larry Corsa's Manalishi pickups. I think Larry Corsa is hand-making the finest Peter Green style LP copies on the market right now. His CV Guitars & custom Peter Green mods are simply the best. His Corsa Manalishi Guitars are a simply marvelous hand-made Peter Green LP style axe that is 2nd to none... Personally I'd go with the Larry Corsa Manalishi pups myself. You can get them both with the pickup poles mis-aligned cosmetically (as Peter Green's guitar was) or normally for that sleeper look... The Wilkinson pickups in the V100PGM of the Vintage (brand) reissued series (I just picked one up myself) is damn good and I'm quite impressed with it! Trevor Wilkinson; the man behind the Vintage brand guitars, was a close personal friend of Seth Lover, as was Seymour Duncan too. So between the two of them they have far more of a direct link to the original Gibson PAF pickup's design and intimate knowledge than most other pickup makers... For the most direct route to the Trevor Wilkinson Vintage brand line you have to go thru the John Hornby Skewes & Co. Ltd. music emporium in The UK.... Larry Corsa is simply a man obsessed with researching and perfecting the Peter Green axe/tone mystique and his Manalishi pickups are a testament to his undying devotion to that quest... I honestly don't know much about Shed pickups, but they were the very first Peter Green mod humbuckers I discovered on the internet once upon a time... You can't go wrong with Syemour Duncan products, I would say the Wilkinson pickups would be a close 2nd and on the boutique side I don't think you can beat the Corsa Manalishi... I have heard good things about those Bare Knuckles, but just like the Shed Supernaturals, I really don't know much of anything specific about them... And yes, I too am a man obsessed with the Holy Grail Peter Green tone & legacy... Being from London, I would expect you could get your hands on some Wilkinson Pickups from those Peter Green V100's without too much trouble... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfpup Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 What about just flipping the magnet on one of the pups you already have? (Assuming of course you like the sound of the set you have). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karloff Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Does Peter Green get $$ from the pickups ? Hope so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DavidRamey Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 What about just flipping the magnet on one of the pups you already have? (Assuming of course you like the sound of the set you have). Anybody wanting the Peter Green tone, the very first thing you need to do to your modern guitar is have it rewired to 50's wiring including pots, caps and wire. Then I would install pure nickel strings. Third, I would flip the magnet on the bridge pick up. If this doesn't get you close to Peter Green's tone, then I would look to buying new pick ups. If you have burstbucker or 57 classics, you might not have to replace the pickups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riffster Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Does Peter Green get $$ from the pickups ? Hope so I am not sure that he invented the mod but rather made it famous, other players have done it too over the decades. After seeing the clips posted here and listening to the original Fleetwood Mac I too have been thinking of this mod for my R8, Currently I have a set of cream DiMarzio's in it but I have a set of Classic 57's that I will use next, I should flip the magnets before I install those although I am not sure when I will do this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karloff Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 I am not sure that he invented the mod but rather made it famous, other players have done it too over the decades. After seeing the clips posted here and listening to the original Fleetwood Mac I too have been thinking of this mod for my R8, Currently I have a set of cream DiMarzio's in it but I have a set of Classic 57's that I will use next, I should flip the magnets before I install those although I am not sure when I will do this. yep, i was just thinking if they actually use his name Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krock Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 yep, i was just thinking if they actually use his name Might make royalties from it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimi Mac Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 yep, i was just thinking if they actually use his name He definitely didn't invent the mod, it's simply an electric or magnetic configuration/condition of the pickups... T-Bone Walker and several older stars were doing it, either by happenstance or design, back in the day long before Peter... I believe even BB King was doing it for a short time because of T-Bone Walker's recordings at one time pre-60's... The word Greenie isn't his name, and in fact his real name isn't Green, it's Greenbaum. So I suspect there's not royalty conflict as those things go... Should he probably get a piece of the action? No doubt in my mind, but I doubt he does... It would be nice if he did! I think Lowell Fulson may have used that sound too at tone time. I think there were alot of phase anomalies in guitars of the late 40's & early 50's as the first electric guitar pickups were manufactured especially, so I think it was a fairly common thing back in the day either by choice or the happenstance of production in existence... To me it still doesn't lessen the Holy Grail pinnacle that he and his '59 Burst were knowing that... It's still sublime as was his playing and magical tone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimi Mac Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 I almost forgot about Throbaks... PG-102 MXV, they are definitely a boutique (priced) pickup... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimi Mac Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTBgGCZO31U http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCadwxSSmbI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimi Mac Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FIV_5daHhVo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBpG0EgaHqc Jim Wagner Pickups: Moore/Green set Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surfpup Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Been thinking about this a bit lately. I don't use the middle position that much in my LP and it would be cool to have that sound, so I am thinking about flipping the neck magnets in my WCR Crossroads set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Farns; doesn't Simon have a pair of Throbak PG's in his G0? They sound pretty good - i.e. 'accurate' - to me. I'm like Surf in that I don't use the mid-position much. I also play a lot of PG stuff so it would be a Good Move if I did execute the flip. I've been thinking about flipping the magnet myself but I have '57 Classics and I think I'm right in saying these will be wax-potted? I've read that a hair-dryer is hot enough to melt the wax but as I'm not 100% sure I've been putting the 'experiment' off for years.... ...Third, I would flip the magnet on the bridge pick up... Interesting, David. Why do you specify the bridge p'up? And, in any case, surely it makes no difference either way? As long as the magnets are oriented differently one to the other it should work - or am I missing something? P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauloon Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Farns; doesn't Simon have a pair of Throbak PG's in his G0? They sound pretty good - i.e. 'accurate' - to me. I'm like Surf in that I don't use the mid-position much. I also play a lot of PG stuff so it would be a Good Move if I did execute the flip. I've been thinking about flipping the magnet myself but I have '57 Classics and I think I'm right in saying these will be wax-potted? I've read that a hair-dryer is hot enough to melt the wax but as I'm not 100% sure I've been putting the 'experiment' off for years.... Interesting, David. Why do you specify the bridge p'up? And, in any case, surely it makes no difference either way? As long as the magnets are oriented differently one to the other it should work - or am I missing something? P. I know. Not another Peter Green out of phase thread. Well this is really not about the middle out of phase tone so don't turn the channel yet. Here is the short version. And if I am just too blind to have noticed this mentioned before forgive me. Anyway I noticed that wiring the neck pickup out of phase makes a big difference in the tone of the neck pickup when the selector switch is set only for the neck pickup. With the neck pickup wired out of phase it you get a much clearer and acoustic low end almost devoid of mud with an 8.2K neck pickup with 42AWG PE. Why? Having spent no real time trying to figure it out I assume it must have something to do with changing the signal path to the volume and tone pots when using 50's wiring. Anyway it is pretty pronounced. Reverse winding or wiring out of phase sounds different in the middle position because of the altered tone of the neck pickup IMO. I tried every imaginable combination in my gutted Les Paul that I can swap pups in super quick and there is no question there is a tonal change in the neck pickup that also effects both out of phase and regular middle position tones. If you wire the neck pickup out of phase and flip the neck pickup to get a "normal" middle position tone you still retain the clearer, more acoustic, mud free neck tone and the middle position becomes more chimey as well. I think is very good tweak for higher output neck pickups even if you don't want a Peter Green out of phase middle tone. Anyone else have experience with this? I think Spence and others have wired out of phase to get Peter Green tones. But I don't recall anyone mentioning the changed neck tone due to out of phase wiring which is where I think the real tonal change is. I tried it with 42 PE and 42 heavy Formvar and the heavy Formvar muddied the low end to the point that the increased low end clarity was mostly lost. But with 42 PE it was a pronounced change for the better. This is pasted from this site (if you are interested) http://music-electronics-forum.com/t9905/...i used this site before i had one of my guitars ''wired'' out of phase/and coil tapped.. For what it's worth i don't care for the sound (on mine).....apart from the fact i get the best Allen Collins Skynyrd sound with this OOP guitar setting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimi Mac Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Farns; doesn't Simon have a pair of Throbak PG's in his G0? They sound pretty good - i.e. 'accurate' - to me. I'm like Surf in that I don't use the mid-position much. I also play a lot of PG stuff so it would be a Good Move if I did execute the flip. I've been thinking about flipping the magnet myself but I have '57 Classics and I think I'm right in saying these will be wax-potted? I've read that a hair-dryer is hot enough to melt the wax but as I'm not 100% sure I've been putting the 'experiment' off for years.... Interesting, David. Why do you specify the bridge p'up? And, in any case, surely it makes no difference either way? As long as the magnets are oriented differently one to the other it should work - or am I missing something? P. Since I purchased my Vintage V100PGM, I've been wanting to un-modify my Wilkinson W90's that I modified myself to be out of phase. Interesting note, I didn't know about stacked P90's like the Blues-90's when I did this. I purchased a set of "Wilkinson P90's" from eBay to keep a set with the mod and to keep a stock set. Last night I decided to make the swap back to stock. Once thing I did find out is that the stock W90's in my Vintage V100GT are a stacked double-coil variety of pickup. Probably why I love their tone so much. Anyway, I also found my stupidly inexpensive "Wilkinson P90's" that I purchased on eBay for a 2nd set are not only a single coil and not stacked, they don't have any of the clear Wilkinson markings or anything else other than the plastic pickup cover. I think I got taken on eBay... No biggie they were cheap enough that I don't mind having a cheap set of generic P90's kicking around to experiment with for other things... So I re-oriented the magnets to the stock magnetic field configuration on the real Wilkinson W90's in my V100GT last night and I love getting the stock tone back... Furthermore, when I originally did it I loved the neck pickup tone so much I didn't want to mess with it so I re-oriented the magnets in the bridge pickup... I found the tone fine and pretty dean-nuts on the Peter Green out-of-phase thing. (other than the point I've made before about that tone in a P90 seems over-the-top present or bright and I think the dynamics of a humbucker make it more subtle and frankly a little better, hence my purchase of the V100PGM) I play mostly in neck or middle positions and only occasionally switch to the bridge position so this made perfect sense to me... I didn't really notice much if any difference in the playing just from the bridge position for myself at the time, but now that I've re-oriented the magnets and put it back to stock, it does seem slightly clearer or has a touch more presence than my recollection of it after I had rotated them... Remember the magnet "flip" isn't really a flip. You keep the magnets on the same plane and rotate the both of them end for end like the hands of a clock maintain the same plane on the face of the clock. You slide them out and turn them so that each end (the long way) reverse position. Never done it on a humbucker, it's way easier on single coil P90 style pickups... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pippy Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Yes, I've read about how to do the flip, Jimi. But everything I've read on the subject states that when each p'up is used on it's own it doesn't matter which way around the magnet faces; it's only when they are used together that the direction of the magnetic field has an effect. I'm no expert on magnetic fields, p'ups or pretty much anything else, come to that, and won't pretend to know for sure myself but why would the direction of the polarity matter if it's N-South or S-North if the p'up is used on it's own? I'll send Searcy a PM. Perhaps he can shed light on the matter.... P. EDIT : Sorry, Paul, I missed this post somehow... ...I noticed that wiring the neck pickup out of phase makes a big difference in the tone of the neck pickup when the selector switch is set only for the neck pickup.......Why?.....I assume it must have something to do with changing the signal path to the volume and tone pots when using 50's wiring. Anyway it is pretty pronounced.... So if the magnet is flipped and the wiring to the vol / tone knobs is changed as well will the p'up retain it's original tonal character? P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauloon Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 I've only personaly ''flipped'' one magnet (got pros to do my others )...I changed nothing else.....and the pickup (bridge) did NOT sound different when used on it's own ..I had the sense (unusual for me) to record before/after,.... But PLEASE don't take my word for it,or expect the same result off this one example. Must be others on here done it?..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Searcy Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 Yes, I've read about how to do the flip, Jimi. But everything I've read on the subject states that when each p'up is used on it's own it doesn't matter which way around the magnet faces; it's only when they are used together that the direction of the magnetic field has an effect. I'm no expert on magnetic fields, p'ups or pretty much anything else, come to that, and won't pretend to know for sure myself but why would the direction of the polarity matter if it's N-South or S-North if the p'up is used on it's own? P. You are right Pippy. On a Gibson style humbucker, the magnetic polarity of the pickup would not matter at all when the pickup is soloed. P-90 style pickups are a bit different as they use two magnets. Flipping only one of those magnets around will drastically cut the output of the pickup. This sounds nothing like the Peter Green mod though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimi Mac Posted March 14, 2014 Share Posted March 14, 2014 You are right Pippy. On a Gibson style humbucker, the magnetic polarity of the pickup would not matter at all when the pickup is soloed. P-90 style pickups are a bit different as they use two magnets. Flipping only one of those magnets around will drastically cut the output of the pickup. This sounds nothing like the Peter Green mod though. Still learnin'... I didn't even realize that humbuckers didn't have 2 magnets exactly like P90's... I can see why my description is causing some confusion... Told ya I never had a humbucker apart... I'd swear I'd seen a Youtube viddie of it and thought there were 2 like a P90, but obviously I must be mistaken and am simply remembering the details from the P90 viddie that prompted me to attempt it for myself on my V100GT's W90's... I am still pleasantly surprised that the Wilkinson W90's on my Vintage V100GT are of a "stacked" double-coil variety like the Blues-90's... They are a superb sounding pickup that Wilkinson makes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimi Mac Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Here's an interesting comparison of the Bare Knuckle PG Blues pickups vs Gibson '57 Classics. The guy did NOT put the PG Blues pups in out-of-phase so it's a good comparison of the pickups tone in-phase vs Gibsons... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGcihpq1Obo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauloon Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Gave that a few playings...one minute '57...next P.G............but eventually (and as it turned out on my last listen) overwhelmingly favour the 57's... Which is just as well as I have..four Gibsons loaded with them (and another set to go into something). Both outstanding Pups though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimi Mac Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 Gave that a few playings...one minute '57...next P.G............but eventually (and as it turned out one my last listen) overwhelmingly favour the 57's... Which is just as well as I have..four Gibsons loaded with them (and another set to go into something). Both outstanding Pups though. I actually found myself preferring the '57 Classics myself, some of those tones, especially in the middle position were simply sublime, and very classic/vintage! No doubt I think the '57 Classic is a fantastic pup! I think Shrek (Donnie) is spot-on with his take on the Alico II pups etc! I've really learned alot from him and while our musical tastes and playing are radically different, I find his preferences and take on tone and pickups mirrors my own perfectly and he's become my goto-guy for such questions because our pickup tastes are so alike in tone regards... Amazing how such different musical tastes can boil down to such a perfectly similar tonal preference... I'm very pleased with the friends I've made on these boards! Some fantastic folks in here!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauloon Posted March 15, 2014 Share Posted March 15, 2014 I actually found myself preferring the '57 Classics myself, some of those tones, especially in the middle position were simply sublime, and very classic/vintage! No doubt I think the '57 Classic is a fantastic pup! I think Shrek (Donnie) is spot-on with his take on the Alico II pups etc! I've really learned alot from him and while our musical tastes and playing are radically different, I find his preferences and take on tone and pickups mirrors my own perfectly and he's become my goto-guy for such questions because our pickup tastes are so alike in tone regards... Amazing how such different musical tastes can boil down to such a perfectly similar tonal preference... I'm very pleased with the friends I've made on these boards! Some fantastic folks in here!!! There certainly is/are some 'good ol' boys' on this forum jimi,....even if you think you know it all (I know very little!)....you will always learn something new on this site. Always keep an open mind! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.