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NTD (New Tuners Day)


Boyd

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I got a used 2008 J-50 awhile ago and have been pondering changing the tuners ever since. The original Grovers worked very well, but they were just SO ugly and out of scale with the headstock. To my eye they were too big and too shiny, and I also dislike the big washers around each peg. Now I agree there is wisdom in the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" philosophy, but I have spent my life as an artist and designer, so visual things matter. Here are the original Grovers.

 

old%20tuners.jpg

 

I decided to go with 3-on-a-strip style tuners. These look like the tuners from the 1960's J-50, but I couldn't find dimensions and wasn't sure how well they would fit. https://www.allparts.com/TK-0700-001-Vintage-Style-3x3-Keys-Nickel_p_3629.html

 

I also like the appearance of the open tuners better (they were used on older J-50 from the 1940's I think). These looked like a good match: http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tuners/Guitar,_solid_peghead_tuners/Golden_Age_Restoration_Tuners_for_Solid_Peghead_Guitar/Golden_Age_Restoration_Tuners_for_Solid_Peghead_Guitar_with_Scallop-end.html

 

But I'm glad StewMac has scale drawings on their site. Some of the critical dimensions weren't included, so I took the image from their site into my CAD software, scaled it and printed it full size. It wasn't obvious from the dimensions, but holding the printout up to the guitar I could see that the top of the strip would partially cover the serial number on the headstock. But these are shorter and fit just right. The knobs also have an aged ivory look instead of the bright white knobs on the others: http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tuners/Guitar,_solid_peghead_tuners/Golden_Age_Restoration_Tuners_for_Solid_Peghead_Guitar/Waverly-style_Solid_Peghead_Cream_Knobs_-_Relic_Nickel.html

 

I went with the bright nickel finish because the relic versions seemed out of place on a new guitar. Since the headstock has 10mm holes from the Grovers, I also ordered a set of these: http://www.stewmac.com/shopby/product/3457?tab=Details

 

Total cost for parts was under $60, so this wasn't an expensive project. But there were a few challenges. There was a circular mark when I removed the big washers from the Grovers - it looked like they must have completed the finishing/polishing of the headstock after the tuners were in place. Wasn't sure how bad this would look until I removed all the Grovers, but it was pretty ugly. I figured I could just put the old Grover washers back on, but they turned out to be too small for the new bushings. So I decided to try my hand at sanding down the area around each peg and polishing it again. This was my first attempt at guitar finishing and I was pretty nervous, but it turned out OK. There's some room for improvement, but you have to look pretty closely to see the marks from the old washers.

 

I really love the way this guitar sounds and plays, and now I'm also really happy with the way it looks! [smile]

 

new%20tuners.jpg

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I'd say if it suits you, it tickles me plumb to death.

 

I still have to chuckle - truly an involuntary act in this sort of case - that 50 years ago folks were definitely going the other way around and if they could afford 'em, were putting Grovers on about anything since the others "looked cheap like on a Harmony." And I'm not kidding at all.

 

<grin>

 

m

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Thanks guys!

 

I still have to chuckle - truly an involuntary act in this sort of case

 

Yeah Milod, I saw your comment in another thread, and understand where you're coming from. But the way those Grovers looked just bothered me. Now I'm no young'un myself (will be 65 this summer), but I'm not so old that I don't appreciate beauty (in guitars as well as "other things"). [tongue]

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I still have to chuckle - truly an involuntary act in this sort of case - that 50 years ago folks were definitely going the other way around and if they could afford 'em, were putting Grovers on about anything since the others "looked cheap like on a Harmony." And I'm not kidding at all.

 

<grin>

 

m

 

Milo is right. I was jealous of the Grovers on my roommate's D-18 back in 1967 when I had the grubby old three-on-a-strip Klusons on my '48 J-45. A few years later when I could afford them (about 1970), I put a set of Sta-Tites on the J-45. Thank God I didn't have the money for Rotomatics!

 

Wish I had those Klusons back, but my J-45 has had the Sta-Tites on for almost 45 years, so I've gotten used to them.

 

Nice choice of tuners for your J-50, and a great installation job.

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Looks good, Boyd. Well done. I recall that past era clearly myself. Today, however, you have it right. Just keep the Grovers tucked safe and you have the trends covered..

 

Steve

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<grin>

 

Only 65? Sheesh...

 

<chuckle>

 

Okay, I was born after Clapton and exactly a month before Kottke.

 

Naaah, in all seriousness, I figure it stuff pleases folks, it's aok by me, although some stuff kinda makes me chuckle for various reasons. Then again, some stuff I like gets chuckles from others, too - like $200+ hats and decent ropers. (That's a type of boot.)

 

So... Heck, I think at a certain point in life as long as you don't get into situations where you might get arrested, do what you will and if folks don't like it, they can ... uhhhhh ... take that long walk on a short pier.

 

Oh, just one question... there's stuff other than guitars in which one might see beauty? Hmmmm.

 

<chortle while biting lip.>

 

BTW, whether you're into "country" or not, this piece from George Strait tells it all for an old picker...

 

m

 

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Actually 1960s Gibsons came with enclosed strip tuners not open gear tuners.

 

But I love three on a plate open gear tuners. I think everything looks better with them. That is probably because every guitar I own with the exception of my '56 Epiphone has them (it has the individual Kluson open gear tuners). Both of my six string Gibsons have bent tab Klusons - the '42 has screwed cog wheels and the '46 washer rivets.

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Actually 1960s Gibsons came with enclosed strip tuners not open gear tuners.

 

Yes - exactly. If you look at my OP, I posted a link to something that looked like those.

 

These look like the tuners from the 1960's J-50, but I couldn't find dimensions and wasn't sure how well they would fit. https://www.allparts.com/TK-0700-001-Vintage-Style-3x3-Keys-Nickel_p_3629.html[/img]

 

I think the Klusons are the same too: http://elderly.com/accessories/items/WD90NPP.htm

 

And I read that the J-50 Modern Classic is supposed to be patterned after the 1960's version, so my first thought was to go with those. I couldn't find measurements for them however. I'm guessing they are the same size as Golden Age scalloped-end open tuners though: http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tuners/Guitar,_solid_peghead_tuners/Golden_Age_Restoration_Tuners_for_Solid_Peghead_Guitar/Golden_Age_Restoration_Tuners_for_Solid_Peghead_Guitar_with_Scallop-end.html

 

They have an overall length of 4.2". And this is why I'm glad I printed the drawing to scale. If the headstock on the 2008 J-50 is the same size as a 1960 J-50, then they must have changed the location of the serial number. Because those tuners would partially cover it. The bell-end tuners are only 4" long, just short enough to fit under the serial number. :)

 

 

How did the screw hole match up, did you have to drill?

 

The screw on the bottom of the plate matched the bottom Grover hole perfectly. Is there some standard or was I just lucky? The other screw holes on the plate didn't match anything but were easily drilled. And the top of the plate exactly covered the outline of the top Gover. So it worked out well, the plate completely covered the old hardware and there were no holes to fill.

 

The whole thing would have been really easy except for the circular marks on the front from the Grover washers, and that took awhile to sand and polish.

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Yea, , , no doubt the ovals look better. Well done and inspiring - made me reconsider if I should fix my 1010 Standard.

 

But milods words about things goin' the other way back in the day are deeply interesting.

 

Say a lot about the unfathomable ways of shifting winds, trends and fleeting faibles. .

 

 

 

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Yea, , , no doubt the ovals look better. Well done and inspiring - made me reconsider if I should fix my 1010 Standard.

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Me too! 2010 J45.......

 

Machines are working very smoothly, so...

 

Em7 - do you still have the tusq saddle and nut?

 

Next jobs.

 

 

 

BluesKing777.

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I see you went for the bellend ones.... had a look at Golden age ones myself when I last thought of swapping out the ugly stock jobs... glad to hear it worked out. I mat take the leap myself, not sure if I want to go with the bellend or the painful sounding engraved bellend

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Never an opportunity missed

 

Yep, typed it on my iphone whilst wearing stilts and an eye-patch......

 

Interestingly enough, they're doing a demo of some blades things like yer man Oscar Pistorious has (but for people who have legs) in the place opposite our work today... I'm off to get a shot, we were talking about it in the office yesterday and one of the lads said he had stilts (not too tall though, an extra 36 inches), brought them in today... much hilarity!

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Me too! 2010 J45.......

Machines are working very smoothly, so...

Em7 - do you still have the tusq saddle and nut?

Next jobs.

Yeps, I keep the black graph-tech nut, but changed the saddle to faded bone.

 

Changed the pins to bone and buffalo-horn too, , , and the tr-cover is now dark brown same shaped leather.

 

If this was my only 45, the tuners would go before I knew it. .

 

 

 

 

 

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The previous owner of my 2011 J-50 installed Gibson/Kluson style keystone/tulip tuners in place of the Grovers- MUCH better looking. I'm not sure why Gibson uses the Grovers as there are so many quality more aesthetically pleasing choices available.

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