Whitmore Willy Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Well, this ain't gonna get it! Time for a new nut. I removed the old (taped on) nut and installed a Tusq. Keep in mind that this is not the way most would do it. It isn't necessarily even the correct way. It is only the way I did it. I taped off the headstock. I didn't need to but, this is how I would have if I was worried about the finish. I pulled the strings out of my way with a rubber bands criss crossed under the headstock, secured to the tuning keys. I then squared and cleaned the area where the nut will set with a file: If I really cared I would also protect the neck from scratches: I then sanded the bottom of the nut to get rid of the "edging". I sanded the face to get it flat and bring the nut to the correct thickness. Once the nut fits perfectly square, I was done sanding the bottom and face. If I see any light then, the nut is not perfectly square: I used a magnifying glass to determine this: I then set up to determine slot depths: Many people use the straight edge and feeler gauge method described by Stew-Mac (shortcut in A.F.'s DIY) I use an engineers scale that goes down to 1/64". It is easily viewed through the magnifying glass down to 1/128" and less. This shows what I see through the glass at the 2nd fret before pressing down on the first fret and measuring: Posted Image While pressing on the first fret I measured clearance at the second fret. If I'm not getting any buzz on the second fret when pressing on the first, then, that clearance + about 1/128" should be ample for the first fret. There should be no buzz at the first when the string is played open: (Keep in mind that this is only one of three methods for determining slot depth.) The others can be found here: http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/4615540-post22.html Sorry, no pic of the actual measurement as seen through the glass. It was very small. These are the tools I have bought over time. (I make a lot of nuts for myself and others.) In this case I only used a couple of the tools. The saws are for fresh cuts when making bone nuts. My main files for slotting are the two at the top. They consist of four sizes. By filing straight or rocking from side to side I am able to achieve many sizes. The small files at the right are for smoothing the bottoms of the slots. The torch tip cleaners are what I used before acquiring the rest of the tools. ( I didn't learn this stuff over night) Intermission while I take my meds and get some brunch. More to come.... Willy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitmore Willy Posted November 23, 2011 Author Share Posted November 23, 2011 Part 2, back from brunch. As previously demonstrated, I measured and determined the bottom of my final string height. I protected the headstock with tape and filed the slot. I checked string height along the way. I re-tuned the string when checking. The height is different when slack! When near final height I used a finer file to smooth the bottom of the notch and fine tune the height. I also maintained an upward angle so that the string sits in the entire slot: Using a pencil to hold the finished string out of my line of vision I moved on to the next string: Moving across the fretboard I repeated the process. I did 3 strings from one side and 3 from the other: Once the slots were filed to proper depth, I was ready to finish the nut: Using 100 grit I sanded the top down to near finish. I switched to 150 and sanded just above finish. I sanded through the strings slightly less than half way on 4-6 and just above tops on 1-3. This leaves some extra which was removed during final shaping and polishing. (got a bit close on the 1st string): I now remove nut and start shaping: I used 150 and then 220 grit for basic shaping. I used 400 grit to finish and start removing sanding marks: I then reinstalled the nut with new strings. I finish outer edges with a file and sandpaper. I then loosen strings and remove nut one final time. I used 600 grit to remove remainder of sanding marks. I used 1500 grit to begin polishing. Micro mesh pads finished the polishing: The entire job usually takes 1-2 hours. I wasn't fussy on this one as it will likely be thrown out and replaced when I re-fret. Until then, the basics were covered. The guitar is set up and 100% playable. Willy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james_edward Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 Willy, that looks good, and helpful for many members. I make a few nuts myself, but when I fit a pre-slotted Tusq I sand the bottom until the string slots are at the sitting at the right height, as I find the Tusq nuts to be already slotted perfectly for 9's, 10's and 11's. So I guess my question is, are you filing the slots on that Tusq or sanding the bottom to lower the entire nut? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobinTheHood Posted November 23, 2011 Share Posted November 23, 2011 This guitar is really getting the "treatment" Willy! I'm not even this precise with my good guitars. lol. Good stuff! Keep it coming! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitmore Willy Posted November 23, 2011 Author Share Posted November 23, 2011 I make a few nuts myself, but when I fit a pre-slotted Tusq I sand the bottom until the string slots are at the sitting at the right height, as I find the Tusq nuts to be already slotted perfectly for 9's, 10's and 11's. So I guess my question is, are you filing the slots on that Tusq or sanding the bottom to lower the entirenut? Keep in mind, I'm getting old. My eyes are not as sharp as they used to be. My hands are not as steady. If I tried to do a perfect job by just sanding the bottom I would probably sand too much off....or.... I would go out of square and not get a tight fit. On the other hand, when I complete a nut and setup I can tune the guitar well within 1 c. If you fret the guitar at the first fret, that note will probably also be within 1-2 c's. (max) I do take into account the person I am setting up for, his finger pressure, style of playing as well as the gauge of strings he uses. Willy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitmore Willy Posted November 23, 2011 Author Share Posted November 23, 2011 This guitar is really getting the "treatment" Willy! I'm not even this precise with my good guitars. lol. Good stuff! Keep it coming! Thank you! Willy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianh Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Very nice work an excellent photos Willy. The fine files - are those Stew Mac or other? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitmore Willy Posted November 24, 2011 Author Share Posted November 24, 2011 The fine files - are those Stew Mac or other? They are, but, I'm not sure I would buy them if I had it to do over. Keep in mind, I've been learning as I go over the last couple of years. I originally bought those files because they were $13 as opposed to the ones on top of the tool photo that are $26. I was a noob. After trying them, I now realize that the small ones, although nice, wear out very quickly. Frankly, if only used for fine tuning and smoothing the bottom of the notch, the torch tip cleaners for $5 are probably the way to go. (even if they are not as convenient) After all, it only takes a couple of light stokes to smooth the bottom of the slot. The heavier files at the top are top notch. I am sure there are less expensive versions out there. They can modify a notch down 1/16" in no time. They are double edged with 2 different sizes on each. As I said, the saws are just used when I do bone nuts from scratch. After a rough cut I switch to the top (pictured) double size files. By the way, I put up a explanation in part four of the stone reamer. I don't know if you saw it but, I tried to clarify it by adding a picture of the reamer. Hope you saw it. http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/76958-beater-guitar-part-4/page__view__findpost__p__1050715 Willy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JellyWheat Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Great work, explanations, and pics. Thanks, Willy! J/W B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eor Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 after seeing the parts and labor involved, i've decided to applaud your efforts and keep outsourcing mine. one more project that i don't really need to take on. thanks, willy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaSTuS Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Just not sure about judging the height using a ruler Willy, depending on the height of the bridge you'll get different readings, be they ever so slight. I always fret at the 3rd and look for a clearance at the 1st fret of about 0.15mm (0.007"), it takes the bridge out of the whole equation. Other than that one little quibble, great job so far mate, and fantastic pics, well done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitmore Willy Posted November 24, 2011 Author Share Posted November 24, 2011 Just not sure about judging the height using a ruler Willy, depending on the height of the bridge you'll get different readings, be they ever so slight. I always fret at the 3rd and check the clearance at the 1st, it takes the bridge out of the whole equation. You are 100% correct. I didn't want to add to the confusion so I did not mention the aspect. But..Since you did...(I I love this forum) I constantly monitor and adjust the setup during slotting. Even the radius created by the saddles in lieu of intonation has a numeric ramification. And yes! Be it ever so slight, it is there. I am, likewise, ever aware of intended final string height at 12th fret as well as neck relief. I'm thinking that I will try the straight edge and feeler gauge method one of these times. I've heard that adding about .030" on the rough cut and then reducing to .010" clearance on the finish at the contact point is about right for the 1st string. I believe that .020" clearance is correct for the 6th. Strings in between should be graduated according to the radius. I just don't like the idea of filing into a feeler gauge. Albeit, I do believe it would be more accurate. Willy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggs Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Willy (but also Rob), In awe of 'the knowledge'... But truly awesome photos also Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianh Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 The heavier files at the top are top notch. I am sure there are less expensive versions out there. They can modify a notch down 1/16" in no time. They are double edged with 2 different sizes on each. By the way, I put up a explanation in part four of the stone reamer. I don't know if you saw it but, I tried to clarify it by adding a picture of the reamer. Hope you saw it. http://forum.gibson....ost__p__1050715 Thanks, I did see the reamer explanation, but still not sure I get it but only because I'm a dumba$$, not because there's anything wrong with your detailed tutorial. I have a full set of the expensive files, was just wondering if the small files were worth it, thanks for clarifying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueEpiphone Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 This is one undertaking that is rarely called a "DIY" undertaking. Most people "desire" to do as well as you did but that is only "potential"; you've done the work and on the internet there are too many imagineers putting calipers on the work of others (not here, though..seriously impressive manners I have observed in my one year of membership ) I remember my MIK re-issue Danelectro 56-U2 had an aluminum nut. Can the nut material make a noticeable change/improvement in sustain and tone? Excellent work, Willy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swamprock Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Keep in mid I'm getting old. My eyes are not as sharp as they used to be. My hands are not as steady. If I tried to do a perfect job by just sanding the bottom I would probably sand too much off....or.... I would go out of square and not get a tight fit. On the other hand, when I complete a nut and setup I can tune the guitar well within 1 c. If you fret the guitar at the first fret, that note will probably also be within 1-2 c's. (max) I do take into account the person I am setting up for, his finger pressure, style of playing as well as the gauge of strings he uses. Willy I have the same issues (getting old, eyesight), and had to shim the nut I put on my Junior when I sanded it down too far. Oh well... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supersonic Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Willy, You're attention to detail is remarkable. Great job and thanks for posting all of the great pics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixx_ gunner Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 Thanks for this walk thru. Planning on using it to redo my nut. Excellent info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitmore Willy Posted November 26, 2011 Author Share Posted November 26, 2011 Eggs, BlueEpiphone, JW and Supersonic thanks for the interest. I have the same issues (getting old, eyesight), and had to shim the nut I put on my Junior when I sanded it down too far. Oh well... Yup, I've heard the worst part of getting old is...getting old. I'm beginning to believe it. When you stop dreaming of having a relationship with Jennifer Lopez and start dreaming about having one with Betty White your really gettin' up there. Thanks for this walk thru. Planning on using it to redo my nut. Excellent info. Just keep in mind that the way I did it is only one method. Many just sand the bottom and call it a day. Others do the same until "close" and then fine tune with files or torch tip cleaners. Depending on your experience you may want to order a couple of nuts. I over sanded the first one I ever did. I shimmed it with construction paper until it was right. I measured to the bottom of the slots and did a new one. It came out fine. After some research I finally learned the other methods of determining slot height. There are at least three ways to measure slot height. RaSTuS explained the most common and most widely used. **** Here is some additional info that I briefly discussed it with RaSTuS in post #12: **** http://www.stewmac.com/freeinfo/String_action_and_setup/i-1811.html?actn=100101&xst=3&xsr=1440 http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tools/Special_tools_for_Nuts_and_saddles/Double-edge_Nut_Files.html?tab=Articles#details My method is probably the lesser used of the three. Good luck, Willy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigneil Posted November 26, 2011 Share Posted November 26, 2011 That's great Willy, I should have asked you for some pointers before I ploughed into my own nut project lol. You have done a much more pro job I did. your Geet is gonna be awesome when its all finnished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
animalfarm Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 The Photos AND taking the time fo EXPLAIN what you're doing make these "Home-Made" DIY threads an excellent resource!!! Helps overcome the doubt that may accompany an attempt after just reading instructions = good to see step-by-step process. Good Work, Willy! (added to DIY...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcwillow777 Posted November 27, 2011 Share Posted November 27, 2011 The Photos AND taking the time fo EXPLAIN what you're doing make these "Home-Made" DIY threads an excellent resource!!! Helps overcome the doubt that may accompany an attempt after just reading instructions = good to see step-by-step process. Good Work, Willy! (added to DIY...) +1000. I bookmarked them all. Thanks for sharing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whitmore Willy Posted November 27, 2011 Author Share Posted November 27, 2011 Good Work, Willy! Thanks for sharing. Thanks for responding! Ya got to admit; we have a lot of fun around here. Willy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johntrem Posted November 29, 2011 Share Posted November 29, 2011 Beautiful job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gearhead Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Can the nut material make a noticeable change/improvement in sustain and tone? The nut material (as well as bridge and stop tail piece and even screws & studs) can make a difference in sound and sustain. I have never tried an aluminum nut, but have made several brass nuts for my Les Pauls and the sustain is great! I haven't really tried other materials, the brass works exceptionally well. But it is a little harder to manipulate than bone, or the Tusque nuts. And nice work Willy! JAM ON MY FRIENDS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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