EuroAussie Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 For a long time I was wondering why my CW sounds distnictively different to a HB, given they are meant to be same guitars, different finish. My CW I always felt had a dryer, crisper tone to the HB's I played, both new and vintage which have that classic 'honey glaze' warmth. We spend some time discussing this here and I think together with Em7 we felt the thick pickguard might have something to do with it as its the only difference between the two. Two weeks I ordered a HB pickguard, nothing special, just a copy which can be appliled with a self adhesive. Today it arrived and i placed it on top of the CW guard to see what the tone was like. Straight away I could feel a difference. The crisp edges were cut and that honey glaze warmth arrived. My jaw dropped and I tried the 'with and without new pickgurd' repeat tries (I just put the new one on with sticky tape for now) and same response. I asked Mrs EA to have a listen, she has a good ear, and she also could hear a subtle but noticeable additional warmth. In addition I normally pick with Gibson Medium picks on all my guitars except with the CW I used a Dunlop Tortex .60mm, slightly thinner one. I felt this pick gave the CW some additional warmth. But now with the new guard the thicker Gibson Medium pick sounded better, delivering the new found warmth deeper and with better clarity. (great picks btw, give em a try). So my conclusion is that yes, it is that damn, thick guard that absorbs some of the edges and give the Bird' that lush, honey glaze tone. Im super thrilled with this subtle yet dramatic tone change, and the thought of the HB TV has been put on hold for now. By the way, from a pure visual pespective, which do you prefer, the before or the after ? btw: does anybody know where i can buy genuine, original HB guards ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ataylor Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 I like the plain pickguard better. I'd leave your Country Western as is and save for the Hummingbird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 Actually it was Jinder who brought the guard theory up. I mentioned it earlier, but as an illustrative example on how my Bird acted withheld as suppressed by the guard. I mark your words as I read them. The idea isn't bad. Listening closely, there could be a hint of treb-cut frequencies in the sweet H-sound – maybe even the touch of damping plast . A serious luthier should chime in – there must be plenty who experimented and worked with this - the topic cannot be an A-rated riddle. But do they read these pages. . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuanCarlosVejar Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 interesting . I seen some people play a Hbird without a guard on maybe they want to get closer to the C&W sound then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted November 30, 2011 Share Posted November 30, 2011 interesting . I seen some people play a Hbird without a guard on maybe they want to get closer to the C&W sound then I saw a guardless rocker on the Tube also. The idea would be to free the top - let's advertise for the guy ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroAussie Posted December 1, 2011 Author Share Posted December 1, 2011 Well I went through the process again next morning just to check whether my ears were playing funny buggers yesterday, but no, exactly same result. Crisp and dry with original guard, warm and drippy with the additional guard ... so, ive just put it on permanetly as frankly i love this tone. I now can announce that my CW has finalised her metamorphosis and has become a Hummingbird, in looks and tone. Long live the Bird ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParlourMan Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Looks great. #thumbsup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-1854Me Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 Well I went through the process again next morning just to check whether my ears were playing funny buggers yesterday, but no, exactly same result. Crisp and dry with original guard, warm and drippy with the additional guard ... so, ive just put it on permanetly as frankly i love this tone. I now can announce that my CW has finalised her metamorphosis and has become a Hummingbird, in looks and tone. Long live the Bird ! Interesting experiment, to say the least, EA. Just as a matter of curiosity, does your guitar have the "rough scissors-cut" lariat-encircled Country Western label in it, or some other label (orange and white, maybe)? Fred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sboiir Posted December 1, 2011 Share Posted December 1, 2011 You ask for opinions, so I think the plain guard looks way better. I run mine with no guard. I'm a lite picker and finger player and think no guard allows for more top vibe....who knows??? looks great though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroAussie Posted December 1, 2011 Author Share Posted December 1, 2011 Actually when I bought this guitar last year in NYC from Umanov guitars the label was already missing Fred, so couldnt tell you ... why did you ask out of curisity ? Interesting experiment, to say the least, EA. Just as a matter of curiosity, does your guitar have the "rough scissors-cut" lariat-encircled Country Western label in it, or some other label (orange and white, maybe)? Fred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denis57 Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 Well I went through the process again next morning just to check whether my ears were playing funny buggers yesterday, but no, exactly same result. Crisp and dry with original guard, warm and drippy with the additional guard ... so, ive just put it on permanetly as frankly i love this tone. I now can announce that my CW has finalised her metamorphosis and has become a Hummingbird, in looks and tone. Long live the Bird ! +10 Now your CW looks like a vintage H-Bird and even sounds like one ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-1854Me Posted December 2, 2011 Share Posted December 2, 2011 Actually when I bought this guitar last year in NYC from Umanov guitars the label was already missing Fred, so couldnt tell you ... why did you ask out of curisity ? Just wondering, is all. I know that the CWs from the mid fifties to at least the mid-sixties had the Country Western label in 'em (I have a '59...), but I don't know whether they stuck the same labels in that model after the mid-60s. I wondered if they simply ran out of them after a while, and either didn't bother putting them in, and so maybe they used other labels, or they did not use them at all. After about 1972, I think by that time they were using the "one label one name fits all approach", so it would have been called an SJN again, not a CW. I think. (It's all as clear as mud.) Fred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrplefty Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 EA, After reading your thread, and a couple of comments I decided to experiment with J-45. I didn't go the HB pickguard route though. I decided to just remove the current pickguard and not replace it. As has been mentioned I feel like removing that little piece of plastic allows the top to vibrate more freely, and I don't play hard enough to worry about playing through or scratching the finish. My take is that the top is a little more free. I feel like I feel the body resonate a little more when I play than I did prior. I also feel like it opened up the high end response. 6 string open chords sound well balanced, open, and airy. I didn't lose any of that low end/mid low chunk and thud when playing the two string open E blues style shuffle which is awesome. This may very well be all in my head, but those two holes attached to my head is what allows the sounds to enter and makes me happy, so I'm sticking with my story. I may try a SWD style guard in the future. If I do that, I will chime in with my assessment of that as well. Thanks again for the inspiration JRPLefty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 I decided to just remove the current pickguard and not replace it. As has been mentioned I feel like removing that little piece of plastic allows the top to vibrate more freely, , , Your word is heard - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroAussie Posted December 8, 2011 Author Share Posted December 8, 2011 Im glad Im not the only one that is seeing something in this. I really think the pickguard does play a role, subtle yet signifcant role. A week later after the change I havent swayed in my opinion on the change in tone of my formely known CW. It really has a lovelly honey warmth now. With new strings its particularly sweet, and she likes new strings as also Ive lost about 15% in volume. EA, After reading your thread, and a couple of comments I decided to experiment with J-45. I didn't go the HB pickguard route though. I decided to just remove the current pickguard and not replace it. As has been mentioned I feel like removing that little piece of plastic allows the top to vibrate more freely, and I don't play hard enough to worry about playing through or scratching the finish. My take is that the top is a little more free. I feel like I feel the body resonate a little more when I play than I did prior. I also feel like it opened up the high end response. 6 string open chords sound well balanced, open, and airy. I didn't lose any of that low end/mid low chunk and thud when playing the two string open E blues style shuffle which is awesome. This may very well be all in my head, but those two holes attached to my head is what allows the sounds to enter and makes me happy, so I'm sticking with my story. I may try a SWD style guard in the future. If I do that, I will chime in with my assessment of that as well. Thanks again for the inspiration JRPLefty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buc McMaster Posted December 8, 2011 Share Posted December 8, 2011 Think I cracked the secret too - I bought one!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroAussie Posted December 8, 2011 Author Share Posted December 8, 2011 Ha, ha .... well yes, that is the other option :-) Think I cracked the secret too - I bought one!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny V. Posted December 10, 2011 Share Posted December 10, 2011 After reading this thread, I got curious. I own a '93 Hummingbird and a '93 J-30 which should make for a good comparison as they are essentially the same guitar. In my very unscientific playing/listening experiments the J-30 seemed to have more high end-the word I'd use is "zingyer". The H'bird is mellower-"honey-glaze" IS a good description. The overall tone qualities are very similar but for the difference in the treble response. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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