Upgrade your Epiphone

[Texasbluezman]

If your using CTS pots try and get the ones with the brass shaft housing, they're better than the pot metal shaft housing brethren IMO and only cost about a dollar more.

Would that be this one?

 

This is what I was thinking about ordering.

 

But I really want some like these that are matched.

Here's the link again:http://www.matchedguitarpots.com/Potkits.html

[RaSTuS]

Yeah like the first one, with the brass top.

 

Following that link, they're very expensive and they only provide audio tapers, no linear tapers, modern wiring scheme used by Epi/Gibby and most other bucker equipped geets use audio tapers for tone and linear tapers for volume.

[Texasbluezman]

Do you know where to get them cheaper? I've read up about audio and linear taper, but haven't made up my mind on that either. Plus, I'm going with the vintage 50's wiring scheme, so I wasn't sure if I should use all audio or a mix of the tapers.

[RaSTuS]

Do you know where to get them cheaper? I've read up about audio and linear taper, but haven't made up my mind on that either. Plus, I'm going with the vintage 50's wiring scheme, so I wasn't sure if I should use all audio or a mix of the tapers.

I always hit eBay and sort by lowest price, being a name brand means you have a pretty good idea you won't end up with crap, places like Music Parts Plus or Sinewave Music will usually have them for $4 or $5 each.

 

Willy's right into 50's wiring, with any luck he'll notice this and jump in (no pressure, LOL).

[Whitmore Willy]

TBM,

 

First,

Did you get a chance to read this?:

http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/83137-help-with-pots-capacitators/page__view__findpost__p__1137906

 

Next,

Are you going 50's Dependent or 50's Independent?

If you let me know, I can give you a few facts and put up some sound clips of different tapers in use.

(As I did for Plus Top Dan in post 15 and 16... although I put up Modern dependent clips for him)

 

Addition food for thought as you get started.

The short CTS in your link and your pic look like 10% taper audio pots. (naturally I can't be positive) If they are and you use

them for volume pots in 50's dependent (my personal favorite) you will likely be disappointed.

90% of the volume taper would happen between 10 and 8.....the rest of the taper would be useless.

 

Willy

[Texasbluezman]

Looks like I'll be using "Dependent 50's". I will be using linear pots for volume and audio pots for tone also. I got my eye on a set on ebay. Here's a link to them:

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MATCHED-500k-CTS-SHORT-SHAFT-POTS-SUPERIOR-QUALITY-Model-PO-401?item=390394797117&cmd=ViewItem&_trksid=p5197.m7&_trkparms=algo%3DLVI%26itu%3DUCI%26otn%3D5%26po%3DLVI%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D7077845660410291448

 

And, yes, I have read, and continue to read the other post.

 

Does it matter the taper percentages of audio pots, when using them as tone pots?

[Whitmore Willy]

Does it matter the taper percentages of audio pots, when using them as tone pots?

In answer to this, yes. But, not enough to make a significant difference. As long as you are using a 10% or 20% taper, the difference as a tone pot is small. Not enough to worry about. I still favor the less expensive 10% CTS Audio pots for tone. Unlike using them for volume, most would be hard pressed to tell the difference. The ones I have bought from Hoagland Bros. have always been 10% anyway. I'm not sure if they even know.

 

Onward and upward!

If you go with 50's Dependent using Linear volumes, I'm guessing you are going to be very happy.

The only disadvantage to going 50's Dep. IMHO is inconsequential. As you roll off the tone, there is a very slight

drop in volume. (minimally noticeable) Nothing you can't correct with a slight volume tweak.

 

Avantage: Most people that go 50s rarely go back to modern. Many say it is like taking a towel off their setup. The sound does not darken as you turn down the volume.

As a matter of fact, I just redid my 1976 Gibson L.P. a week ago using the very pots you are talking about.

(Albeit, they were long shaft):

http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/82973-lp-redo/page__view__findpost__p__1145594

 

I also just refinished my Epiphone L.P. this morning:

 

 

I bought it when I first joined the forum. The wiring is not as pretty as my more recent jobs. It was my very first mod.

I didn't even know how to use the vintage push-back wire which I used on the switch. Instead of pushing it back, I unraveled it with a tooth pick and twisted the strands with my fingers. LOL

 

Still, it was good enough that all I changed this morning was the capacitors and their position to 50's. And, of course, the wire grounding the tone pot lug.

 

Anyway, on to the volume samples. Keep in mind that there is no right or wrong!!! It is about how you like to use your controls on your guitar......So, kick your volume up to 7 and decide which you want.

 

All samples are 50's Dependent......this will take two posts (you can only put two media per post)

 

10% Taper Audio Volume Pot:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/21424628/Gibson%20LP%20Redo/Complete%20Volume%20Count%20Ups/50s%20Dependent/50s%20Dep%2010%20Audio%20Vol/10%20TAPER%20Vol%2050s%20Dep.mp3

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

20% Taper Audio Volume Pot:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/21424628/Gibson%20LP%20Redo/Complete%20Volume%20Count%20Ups/50s%20Dependent/50s%20Dep%20Audio%20Vol/50s%20Dep%20Audio.mp3

[Whitmore Willy]

RS Superpot...Basically a 25% - 30% Taper Audio Volume Pot:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/21424628/Gibson%20LP%20Redo/Complete%20Volume%20Count%20Ups/50s%20Dependent/50s%20Dep%20SP%20Vol/50s%20Dep%20SP.mp3

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

Linear Volume Pot (50% Taper):

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/21424628/Gibson%20LP%20Redo/Complete%20Volume%20Count%20Ups/50s%20Dependent/50s%20Dep%20Linear%20Vol/50s%20Dep%20Linear.mp3

 

And yes, I use Linear Volumes the majority of the time.

 

Willy

[Texasbluezman]

Those are excellent examples. I listened to them twice, the second time with my eyes closed. That pretty much says it all. Thanks bro.

 

I just wanted to add. I've been a player for 25 years. I've done half *** maintenance on my guitars through the years just enough to get by with, and because I'm too cheap to pay someone. About a year ago I really wanted to get into guitar repairs and maintenance, because I thought I knew enough to do it. After joining the Fender and Gibson forum, I've had a change of mind. I learned a lot in the past year, and realized I need more practice and knowledge before I try to work on other peoples equipment. I do know one thing I am good at, and that's setting up a Floyd Rose. I had an original 1980's Ibanez RG550 for 10 years. Got lots of practice on that guitar.

 

Thank you to everybody for your past, present and future help in my longing quest for tone.

 

I've just ordered the last of my parts. I went with the Hoagland Bros. pot set.

[Texasbluezman]

Well, just an update. I'm gonna share this rebuild with pics. Here's what I have in the git now:

 

Looks like a mess in here.

 

Here are some of my new parts. The rest will be here soon. I did not confirm the address that paypal had on the receipt. For some stupid reason, if I pay outside of ebay, paypal brings up an old address. Looks like it's getting sent back to the distributor, then back to me.

 

 

 

 

 

[Whitmore Willy]

TBM,

Looks like you're making progress. Thanks for keeping us updated.

Just a couple of questions.

I see you have four capacitors. Planning on doing some experimenting?

You may find the .047μF roll off a bit to the dark side. What are the values of the others?

 

Also, have you used the vintage braided wire before? No big deal if you are familiar with it.

If not, I can put up some pics and a video on use and soldering technique.

 

Keep us posted on your progress. Love the pics!

 

Willy

[Texasbluezman]

The Mojotone caps are .022uf. And yeah, I'm gonna experiment with different values before I put iron to it.

 

I have dealt with braided wire before, but I didn't know what I was doing then (not that I do now ). I've read some of your stuff WW about it, and I believe I have seen pics also, but help is always appreciated.

 

The pics are coming out crystal clear, and huge too! I plan on a step by step pictorial of the whole process.

[Whitmore Willy]

I have dealt with braided wire before, but I didn't know what I was doing then (not that I do now ). I've read some of your stuff WW about it, and I believe I have seen pics also, but help is always appreciated.

 

This is the video I was referring to:

 

 

Small side thought...Set your pots to 0 when soldering. If you accidentally overheat you can create a dead spot.

(Fairly rare but, it can happen) If it does then you want the dead spot to be at 0.

 

The only other thing I was going to show is an easy way for stranding the ground when desired....A toothpick!

 

....

 

This was part of some tests I was running. The finished wire was (of course) much shorter.

 

Willy

[Texasbluezman]

I finally got around to installing my upgrade. Got everything installed in about an hour. Plugged in and nothing! After 5 hours of troubleshooting, which included taking almost everything back apart, watching youtube tutorials, and looking at several schematics, I'm at a loss. I have no idea what is wrong. I pretty much drove myself to a frenzy and am ready to either take it to somebody else or throw it out the window of my 2 story house. But lucky for me, the window won't open.

 

It won't make a sound at all. Even if I touch things inside the cavity, nothing. Either something is broke or something is shorting out, and not letting a signal get to the output jack. I just don't know.

 

Help! Please!

[Whitmore Willy]

It won't make a sound at all.

Zero, Zip, Nada, Nothing? In all three switch positions?

Naturally, pics would help, but.... If you are positive that all is good up to the guitar...(no bad cable...etc.)

A couple things come to mind.

 

If there is a switch problem it is likely a mixing up of the wires at said switch. (or the ground or hot wire contacting a spot it should not)

 

ALSO...as simple and silly as it sounds, I've accidentally reversed the wires at the jack before.

 

If you went with vintage wires, it can also be easy to get them mixed up. I like to use marked pieces of tape to

keep track of them until I am ready to solder.

 

If it helps any, take a quick look at the pics I posted here:

http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/82973-lp-redo/page__view__findpost__p__1145594

 

Just don't get too frustrated...(and don't throw it out the window)

There just isn't that much electronics inside a guitar. You'll get it figured out.

 

Willy

[Texasbluezman]

I checked the output plug and even reversed the wires just for grins. I did label each wire from the switch before I fed them through the body. I am using vintage braided wire. I must admit, your control cavity looks much neater than mine.

 

It could be possible that I may have put too much heat on something. But how could I check? Could I use a multimeter and check certain points to determine where my problem could be?

[Whitmore Willy]

Pics?

If all the wires seem to check out for correct location (especially at the switch) then something should work. Even if you did burn out something, the odds of burning out everything are small.

Any chance you forgot to solder the third leg of the volume pots to the back of the pots?

Are the backs of the pots all grounded together?

Any chance that the caps are touching the walls of the cavity and grounding out?

No chance you got the power and the ground wires reversed at the switch?

 

Willy

[Texasbluezman]

I'll try to get some pics up before I ask anymore questions.

[atj13]

good luck with your wiring

[altair]

I'll try to get some pics up before I ask anymore questions.

 

Something I've seen in nearly all of the video tutorials on rewiring/upgrading your guitar is the use of a multimeter. They're not overly expensive and can help you to quickly pinpoint the part that is causing all the trouble.

You don't mention having used one while troubleshooting, so I thought I just throw this in FYI.

 

I hope you get your wiring fixed soon!

[Texasbluezman]

I had asked if anyone could tell where on the guitar to check with a multimeter, but apparently nobody knew. Anyway, I found the problem. Everything is in working order now. It was a grounding issue. I did some clean up in the cavity. Made some wires shorter, and routed them in an orderly fashion. I almost like this guitar as much as my Gibby. It has a mellow,but aggressive sound. Not a drastic change from before the mods, but noticeable. Would be hard to explain. I so happy to get it finished, that I put the covers on, and plugged it in for a 1 hour jam session with myself and Gary Moore's Still Got The Blues CD. So I will post some pics in the near future. It's not the best soldering job, but I'm getting better. Thanks to everyone for your help!

[Whitmore Willy]

I found the problem. Everything is in working order now. It was a grounding issue.

To tell the truth, I figured you'd get it figured out.

Did the volume tapers work out the way you wanted them to?

 

Next time someone wants to do a 50's upgrade it will be your turn to do the explaining.

Big time CONGRATS!!!

 

Willy

[Texasbluezman]

To tell the truth, I figured you'd get it figured out.

Did the volume tapers work out the way you wanted them to?

 

Next time someone wants to do a 50's upgrade it will be your turn to do the explaining.

Big time CONGRATS!!!

 

Willy

Volume tapers are working out just the way I wanted them.

 

I'll tell what happened, After wiring and labeling the switch, I ran the wires through the cavity. Then I realized that my longest wire was not going to the output jack. So I added an extension. The only problem with that is, the outer braid was touching the inner wire, which in turn sent everything to ground. Only took me 2 days to fix that little problem. I feel kinda embarassed, but I decided to put it out here for others to learn from.

 

Next time someone needs help on a 50's upgrade, just send 'em my way!

 

And THANKS for the help Willy!

[Blueman335]

The only problem with that is, the outer braid was touching the inner wire, which in turn sent everything to ground. Only took me 2 days to fix that little problem. I feel kinda embarassed, but I decided to put it out here for others to learn from.

 

All of us have made mistakes like that at some point. Welcome to the club. But that's how you learn.

[Texasbluezman]

I found my old thread! I'll add the picks here also to make this thread complete! Now everyone can see the rebuild from start to finish, and maybe learn something also. I'll take your questions now.