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Laminated fretboards?


akadave

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I love Gibson guitars and own a few. I really want a new SG but this whole laminated Rosewood thing has me put off. Does anyone else feel the same way?

 

Will Gibson go back to non laminated fretboards anytime soon?

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Until Gibson's legal issues with the federal government are resolved I don't think much is likely to change except that they might introduce more new fretboard materials.

 

If you don't like the idea of two rosewood strips glued together then get one of their models that has the baked maple fretboards, they are excellent.

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It's nothing to worry about really. Just find a guitar you like... My general thought is, I don't really ask what woods are used.. I just see if I like the sound and feel... a good guitar is a good guitar. If it sounds awesome and plays great, It could be made from plastic and I'd be cool with it.

 

Just so happens, I have guitars from several eras and several manufactures.. no two are alike, but I like them all for different reasons. I have some with Rosewood, some with Ebony, and some with Maple... there's likely a few other woods in there I don't even recall, but I know how the guitars each sound and respond... and I love each for a different reason.

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Don't worry about the materials for the fretboard, it's the fret job that you gotta pay attention too. I just recently picked up a new SG Stnd with baked maple, and I absolutely love it, brighter faster feeling and more articulate than rose wood. I wouldn't trade off any of my other 4 Gibson's but I also no longer "fear" baked maple!

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Don't worry about the materials for the fretboard, it's the fret job that you gotta pay attention too.

 

The thing about he laminated fretboards is that the fret tangs are deeper that the top lamination. In other words, despite the fact you start with a fretboard blank laminated with two pieces of equal size, once the fret wire is installed you basically have 22 little pieces of wood glued down between the fret wires. Not an appealing thought, especially if you plan on keeping the guitar long enough to have to do a fret job on it. I would be concerned about some of those little pieces coming up when the old frets are removed. Definitely not one of Gibson's better ideas.

 

 

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The thing about he laminated fretboards is that the fret tangs are deeper that the top lamination. In other words, despite the fact you start with a fretboard blank laminated with two pieces of equal size, once the fret wire is installed you basically have 22 little pieces of wood glued down between the fret wires. Not an appealing thought, especially if you plan on keeping the guitar long enough to have to do a fret job on it. I would be concerned about some of those little pieces coming up when the old frets are removed. Definitely not one of Gibson's better ideas.

 

 

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Does the tang really go deeper than the first layer? Wow!...if that is so a refret could be a nightmare. I always plan on keeping my guitars past their first set of frets. The way I play I flatten out Gibson frets pretty fast, so Im always conscious of a refret. This really changes things then.

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No one really knows how a laminated board will last in the long run....mostly because it is such a bad idea no one has made them.

 

The quality of the wood and the glue will have an impact, but for the most part, it really isn't a good way to make a fretboard for obvious reasons.

 

But if the guitar sounds good, plays good, and works really well as it is, I don't think it is the last consideration. The worst that will happen is you will have to replace the fretboard at some point. So if a guitar stands out and it happens to have a laminated board, if you buy it you have a guitar that sounds great and works great until the fretbaord needs replacing.

 

I would ask for a discount.

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I wouldn't knock it until you tried it. I've played a few of them. Some look and feel like Ebony, others feel like Rosewood, but aren't they made of maple? Either way, I thought nothing different about them versus traditional wood construction.

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I wouldn't knock it until you tried it. I've played a few of them. Some look and feel like Ebony, others feel like Rosewood, but aren't they made of maple? Either way, I thought nothing different about them versus traditional wood construction.

 

We're not discussing alternative materials like baked maple, obeche, richlite, etc. This is about laminated rosewood fretboards being used since the last raid. Due to the FnW raids, Gibson has had problems obtaining rosewood blanks of proper thickness so they've been laminating rosewood fretboards from two thinner pieces, both in the electric division and acoustic division (where they were also laminating bridges). This has caused a bit of a controversy, especially on the Custom Historic Reissues which are supposed to be "exact" replicas of the original issues.

 

No binding, easy to spot - the top lamination is more tight grained than the bottom. Notice that the top lamination is no deeper than the fret tangs -

FretboardLaminate.jpg

 

 

Here's a Custom Historic Reissue with binding, but with the nut removed you can see the lamination line just above the binding tang (easier to spot on the right side) -

FretboardLaminationHistoric.jpg

 

 

Here's a bridge on a new Hummingbird with an obvious lamination -

BridgeLamination.jpg

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Guest BentonC

No one really knows how a laminated board will last in the long run....mostly because it is such a bad idea no one has made them.

 

The quality of the wood and the glue will have an impact, but for the most part, it really isn't a good way to make a fretboard for obvious reasons.

 

But if the guitar sounds good, plays good, and works really well as it is, I don't think it is the last consideration. The worst that will happen is you will have to replace the fretboard at some point. So if a guitar stands out and it happens to have a laminated board, if you buy it you have a guitar that sounds great and works great until the fretbaord needs replacing.

 

I would ask for a discount.

 

The likelihood of the fretboard failing due to the fact that it is laminate is the same as the maple top coming off the mahogany back...

 

I understand the apprehension to accept new materials for classic designs like the Les Paul, the the laminate fretboards really work, sound and play the same, and has no greater risk of failure than a solid fretboard.

 

Just some other thoughts to consider about the topic at hand [biggrin]

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Here is something odd. I called the Gibson restoration/repair center in Nashville today. I asked one of the techs about re-fretting considerations with the laminated fretboards. He indicated they were seeing laminated boards on the customs and was told that the ones on the Gibson USA guitars were not laminated at this time.

 

Interesting....

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The likelihood of the fretboard failing due to the fact that it is laminate is the same as the maple top coming off the mahogany back...

 

I understand the apprehension to accept new materials for classic designs like the Les Paul, the the laminate fretboards really work, sound and play the same, and has no greater risk of failure than a solid fretboard.

 

Just some other thoughts to consider about the topic at hand [biggrin]

 

...but why introduce another possible point of failure? I'm not saying it will fail; and I don't know if any type of accelarated test were done on this method. I just remember the multi cross laminate of the Norlin bodies of the 70's; now they are showing their layered joints through the nitro. My pre-norlin do not show the joints..not yet.

 

Nevertheless, I'm not going to stress about it...just play them to death!

[thumbup]

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I thought I'd throw my 2 cents into this discussion. I've read peoples concerns about the fretboard delaminating. As a wood worker for over 40 years, I can pretty much guarantee that the wood will fail before a good glue joint will. When the glue dries is stronger than the wood, and if you hit it with a hammer, the wood will crack in a different place than the glue joint. The only way I could ever see the wood delaminate is if they use a water soluble glue, and they put the neck in a steam box for a few hours.

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I can pretty much guarantee that the wood will fail before a good glue joint will. When the glue dries is stronger than the wood

A rarity no doubt, but I recently had an LP replaced under warranty when the glue joint failed between the two pieces of the mahogany body near the end-pin. Possibly from inadequately dried wood? Don't know for sure, but it did fail.

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A rarity no doubt, but I recently had an LP replaced under warranty when the glue joint failed between the two pieces of the mahogany body near the end-pin. Possibly from inadequately dried wood? Don't know for sure, but it did fail.

 

 

Well, I said GOOD glue joint, LOL. I have 4 Norlin Gibsons with 3 piece necks, and 5 piece headstocks, a 73, 2 76's and a 79, and none even show a hint of coming apart.

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.... the wood will fail before a good glue joint will. When the glue dries is stronger than the wood ....

 

In theory. In a proper environment with balanced humidity and heat. Unfortunately, in the real world, glue joints fail. Even those put together by someone with a lifetime of experience. Beyond that, when it comes to wooden instruments (stringed and woodwinds), laminates are often considered less desirable material, and solid wood is generally preferred over laminates.

 

 

 

A rarity no doubt, but I recently had an LP replaced under warranty when the glue joint failed between the two pieces of the mahogany body near the end-pin. Possibly from inadequately dried wood? Don't know for sure, but it did fail.

 

Not a rarity. About 18 months ago or so there was an issue with the failing glue joints between the neck and fretboard. Some posts were made here. Gibson covered them under warranty saying it was due to improperly dried wood. There was a couple more posted here this year.

 

 

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In theory. In a proper environment with balanced humidity and heat. Unfortunately, in the real world, glue joints fail. Even those put together by someone with a lifetime of experience. Beyond that, when it comes to wooden instruments (stringed and woodwinds), laminates are often considered less desirable material, and solid wood is generally preferred over laminates.

 

 

 

 

 

Not a rarity. About 18 months ago or so there was an issue with the failing glue joints between the neck and fretboard. Some posts were made here. Gibson covered them under warranty saying it was due to improperly dried wood. There was a couple more posted here this year.

 

 

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Thats fine, I don't need to argue the point, but consider this. Every time you play an ES 335, or any of the ES guitars, you're playing a guitar made entirely out of laminated wood. A Les Paul is made of a maple top laminated to a mahogany body. Even the mahogany body is a piece of wood split down the middle (bookmathced) and glued together. Necks have a fretboard laminated to the neck. In my humble opinion, I don't think these fretboards are any more likely to fall apart than any other part of the guitar thats glued together.

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I'll skip wood glued together in big chunks (bodies and necks) and plywood (archtops).

 

There's no getting around the fact that instruments built with laminated wood (especially in the acoustic guitar market) are generally considered less desirable than instruments built with solid woods. It's a perception of laminates, not whether the joints will fail, although it seems that is to where the discussion gravitates. I'll just point out that Gibson Acoustic has figured this out and have now stopped using laminated fretboards and bridges. I doubt they would do that if it was such a great idea. In fact, this is a corporate concern as Henry has admitted his worry over sales numbers since the recent introduction of laminated and alternative materials. Customer concerns over Gibson's use laminated and alternative materials have certainly been making many interesting threads on the different subforums here this year.

 

 

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Not a rarity. About 18 months ago or so there was an issue with the failing glue joints between the neck and fretboard. Some posts were made here. Gibson covered them under warranty saying it was due to improperly dried wood. There was a couple more posted here this year.

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In my example noted above, the guitar in question was an '07 model LP double-cut. I will add that my dealings with Nashville personnel were consistently first rate.

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