Red 333 Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 Just wanted to let you know that bone(!) saddles for the adjustable bridge are available from philadelphialuthiertools.com. I just received a couple that I ordered earlier in the week. They are beautifully CNC'd by a Japanese company called HOSCO. I learned of these from the BeatGearCavern; a member there found that HOSCO made the saddles but did not sell retail, so he got the owner of Philadelphia Luthier Tools & Supply to place a minimum quantity order. Bone is not guaranteed to sound "better" than Tusq (standard on modern adjustable bridge models) or ceramic (common on the vintage models), and indeed could even be more inconsistent than those materials, but I'm excited to see what difference it makes. I'll probably replace the Tusq saddle on one of my Texans this weekend or early next week. I'll keep you posted. Red 333 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted June 9, 2012 Share Posted June 9, 2012 That sounds like a great idea! Here's what we used to do before the days of CNC milling: for mid-60's adjustables with the all-rosewood saddle, cut out the raised portion of the saddle, groove what remains with a small saw, and fit a bone saddle into the slot. This kept the adjustability, but at least you had bone for string contact. Did this one about 1970, and still have it in my parts box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red 333 Posted June 9, 2012 Author Share Posted June 9, 2012 That's great. I've seen where people have replaced the adjustable saddle entirely with a fixed bone saddle, using a rosewood spacer to fill the extra width of the original, but never one that left the mechanism's adjustable nature. Nice work! Red 333 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aster1 Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 Anyone have any lines on a ceramic that would be a drop in replacement for my Fuller Reissue J-160E? I know they change the sound from only what I've read. Are these parts that someone remakes or do you just have to get lucky and find an original that someone still has & doesn't want to use anymore? Let us know how that bone sounds vs. the supplied (I thought Corian instead of Tusq) at least on a 160. Aster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchie1281734003 Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 Thanks for the heads up on this Red, but I saw them on ebay last week and bought one to try on my 62 Texan, so I am eagerly waiting it`s arrival. Let us know what you think of yours? There was a 60`s Ceramic one on ebay a couple of weeks ago, that ended up selling for $70+, which was a bit rich for me, what with the $24 postage to the U.K. that was being offered, although the seller said postage would probably be a lot less! I didn`t feel I could take that chance. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red 333 Posted June 10, 2012 Author Share Posted June 10, 2012 Steve, I put the first bone adj. bridge on my Elitist Texan. It definitely brought out some additional low end. And, it really makes the "B" string ping, like the ceramic saddles often too (to the delight of Beatlemaniacs). I didn't weigh it before I installed it, but the bone saddle did feel heavier than the Tusq saddle it replaced. It is also slightly wider, so it really snugs into the slot on the saddle. That night have something to do with the increase in bass--more points of transmission for string vibration than just the adjustable bridge mechanism's two bolts. I haven't decided which guitar to put the second saddle into (one of the other Texans of the J-160E). Let us know your impressions when you get yours. Red 333 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuestionMark Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 Just placed my order for the replacement bone ADJ bridge saddle. I really like the way the factory tusq saddle sounds on my J45 CS 1964 Reissue, but can't wait to hear how the bone saddle in it will sound as all my other guitars have bone saddles. Thanks for letting me know about this. QM aka Jazzman Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 Steve, I put the first bone adj. bridge on my Elitist Texan. It definitely brought out some additional low end. And, it really makes the "B" string ping, like the ceramic saddles often too (to the delight of Beatlemaniacs). I didn't weigh it before I installed it, but the bone saddle did feel heavier than the Tusq saddle it replaced. It is also slightly wider, so it really snugs into the slot on the saddle. That night have something to do with the increase in bass--more points of transmission for string vibration than just the adjustable bridge mechanism's two bolts. I haven't decided which guitar to put the second saddle into (one of the other Texans of the J-160E). Let us know your impressions when you get yours. Red 333 I too am interested. Have these things in rosewood, ceramic, rosewood w. bone saddle, rosewood w. rosewood for the E and B string, bone for the G-D-A-E saddle, tusq, and old vase ivory. Bone, , , yes it sounds - or might sound - good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J200_2013 Posted June 11, 2012 Share Posted June 11, 2012 Many thanks on this. I have a "now" ancient Heritage (1970) that needs the adjustable part of the bridge reworked, and this seems to be exactly the thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchie1281734003 Posted June 13, 2012 Share Posted June 13, 2012 Red. Mine arrived yesterday, and on first impressions I was very pleased with how precise it looked. However I did have to reduce the width of the saddle by just over a millimetre, the depth by half a millimetre, and enlarge the holes at both ends quite a bit, to fit my saddle posts. This is because I feel this part is designed more for the reissues than the originals. I know this because I recently had a McCartney Elitist Texan in my posession, which when compared to my 62 Texan, had a wider saddle slot and narrower saddle posts! Once fitted this saddle gave a marked improvement in tone over the various other saddles I have tried. Not as brash as the Gibson current ADJ saddle, or the Tusq equivelent. I feel it is also better than the Corian version, which tends to decay in volume and sustain quite quickly. I also prefer it to the Rosewood one which can be quite mushy/dull sounding. This one brings out the bottom end nicely, adds a bit more zing and ping to the trebles, and at the same time gives a nice overall balance, it also improves overall volume. All in all a fine part which I can heartily recommend, but if you do buy it for a 50s/60s vintage guitar be prepared for quite a bit of prep work to make it fit, although it is worth the effort. In fact I have just ordered another!! Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red 333 Posted June 13, 2012 Author Share Posted June 13, 2012 Red. Mine arrived yesterday, and on first impressions I was very pleased with how precise it looked. However I did have to reduce the width of the saddle by just over a millimetre, the depth by half a millimetre, and enlarge the holes at both ends quite a bit, to fit my saddle posts. This is because I feel this part is designed more for the reissues than the originals. I know this because I recently had a McCartney Elitist Texan in my posession, which when compared to my 62 Texan, had a wider saddle slot and narrower saddle posts! Once fitted this saddle gave a marked improvement in tone over the various other saddles I have tried. Not as brash as the Gibson current ADJ saddle, or the Tusq equivelent. I feel it is also better than the Corian version, which tends to decay in volume and sustain quite quickly. I also prefer it to the Rosewood one which can be quite mushy/dull sounding. This one brings out the bottom end nicely, adds a bit more zing and ping to the trebles, and at the same time gives a nice overall balance, it also improves overall volume. All in all a fine part which I can heartily recommend, but if you do buy it for a 50s/60s vintage guitar be prepared for quite a bit of prep work to make it fit, although it is worth the effort. In fact I have just ordered another!! Steve. Great to hear it made a positive difference, Steve! I didn't realize that the reissue adjustable mechanism had different sized parts than the originals-that's good to know. Thanks. Red 333 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aster1 Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 Hey Guys, I need a little help getting something thru my sometimes dense skull. Do the Reissues, say on my Fuller J-160E, have a Corian or a tusq saddle? I was thinking it was Corian. Sounds like several here have tried them all. Am I understanding that the Bone is best, then the Tusq, then the Corian? Where does the Ceramic fall into the mix, or is it just more for that Beatles sound? Thanks for the explanations you all can offer. Don't have ANY experience swapping these adj. saddles out as far as sound differences. While I'm axing, with regards to a standard compensated saddle (like on my Dove & J-45) is the consensus that bone beats the Tusq? I'm thinking they come with bone don't they? Aster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red 333 Posted June 14, 2012 Author Share Posted June 14, 2012 Hey Guys, I need a little help getting something thru my sometimes dense skull. Do the Reissues, say on my Fuller J-160E, have a Corian or a tusq saddle? I was thinking it was Corian. Sounds like several here have tried them all. Am I understanding that the Bone is best, then the Tusq, then the Corian? Where does the Ceramic fall into the mix, or is it just more for that Beatles sound? Thanks for the explanations you all can offer. Don't have ANY experience swapping these adj. saddles out as far as sound differences. While I'm axing, with regards to a standard compensated saddle (like on my Dove & J-45) is the consensus that bone beats the Tusq? I'm thinking they come with bone don't they? Aster Aster, I don't know for sure, but I would guess the Fuller's J-160E has a Tusq saddle. That's what my "Peace" J-160E has, and it's most likely the same specs as yours, but with a natural instead of sunburst finish. I don't know of any source for new ceramic saddles. As Frenchie wrote above, vintage ones sell for good money on eBay. My memory may be faulty, but I think Frenchie MADE his corrian adjustable saddle; I don't know of any source for them. Many of guitars originally equipped with the adj. bridge in the '60s had ceramic saddles. It's surely lent John and George's J-160E's some of their distinctive qualities. In my mind, switching an adjustable saddle to bone is something one does when seeking "better" (or less "period") acoustic performance from a solid topped flat top. I'm not sure what results if any it would have on laminated-topped, ladder braced guitars like our vintage-spec J-160E's (though I'll probably give it a whirl just for grins). Who knows, it may have a poor effect on the guitar's electric performance. As you know, many Beatle fans seek out old ceramic saddles to get even closer to the guitar sounds they're familiar with from the recordings. Swapping the saddle is easy. You just turn both screws 'til the saddle rises out of the slot on the bridge; once free, it slides easily out of the screws. Red 333 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchie1281734003 Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 Hey Guys, I need a little help getting something thru my sometimes dense skull. Do the Reissues, say on my Fuller J-160E, have a Corian or a tusq saddle? I was thinking it was Corian. Sounds like several here have tried them all. Am I understanding that the Bone is best, then the Tusq, then the Corian? Where does the Ceramic fall into the mix, or is it just more for that Beatles sound? Thanks for the explanations you all can offer. Don't have ANY experience swapping these adj. saddles out as far as sound differences. While I'm axing, with regards to a standard compensated saddle (like on my Dove & J-45) is the consensus that bone beats the Tusq? I'm thinking they come with bone don't they? Aster Aster, I would guess that the saddle on your J-160E is a kind of Tusq material, made by or for Gibson, as they just don`t make the Ceramic ones anymore. I have had the chance to compare both the current Gibson ADJ saddle and the Graph tech version and they look and feel very similar, but I felt the Gibson version was heavier. When I bought my 62 Texan it didn`t have the original Ceramic saddle, but one made out of Ivory (I am begining to think it is plastic), so I have been on an endless quest to try out other materials. The Ivory/plastic saddle does impart quite a nice warm tone, which people seem to like. I then tried a Tusq version, which added quite a bit of zing, but left me thinking the tone was a bit brash and unbalanced. So then I bought a 60s Rosewood saddle, and I was back to warmth with a loss in volume, and a muddy bass. I still haven`t tried an original Ceramic one yet! I read a post somewhere (possibly on the AGF) where someone stated that the first of the Gibson reissues that were equipped with the ADJ saddle, had it made out of Corian, but Gibson soon changed to a harder Tusq type material. I made one out of Corian for my friends McCartney 64 elitist Texan, which tamed the rather brash tone that guitar had, but as of yet I haven`t tried the same on my Texan. But I now have this new bone saddle on my 62, and so far I am really pleased with both the tone, the balance and the extra volume, so this one may stay on it. I don`t subscribe to the theory that the ADJ saddle is one of Gibson`s worst ideas, and that it sucks tone out of the guitar, and kills volume. I have played many a vintage Gibson, and some are better with the ADJ, and some aren`t. My friends McCartney Texan is the lightest and loudest guitar, I have had the pleasure to play, but my 62 is sweeter. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aster1 Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Thanks for the info guys!! I will keep my eyes open for a ceramic saddle for the J-160. I also was wondering about the standard bridge/saddle selection for my J-45 & Dove too. I didn't want to get sucked into the hype on a Tusq (ain't cheap as I think the compensated version is $50) if they don't really out perform the bone style. An comments or results on those? I think both the Dove & J-45 have Bone? Just wanting great intonation, good bass (not muddy) bright high end. You know, THE MOON & STARS!! Aster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Thanks for the info guys!! I will keep my eyes open for a ceramic saddle for the J-160. I also was wondering about the standard bridge/saddle selection for my J-45 & Dove too. I didn't want to get sucked into the hype on a Tusq (ain't cheap as I think the compensated version is $50) if they don't really out perform the bone style. An comments or results on those? I think both the Dove & J-45 have Bone? Just wanting great intonation, good bass (not muddy) bright high end. You know, THE MOON & STARS!! Aster I think "out perform" is probably not the right term. They are likely to yield different results, but may or may not be preferable tone-wise to what you have now. It's all in the ear of the beholder. The good thing is that these are, cheap, reversible experiments that are part of the eternal search for the ideal tone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuestionMark Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 Interested in hearing your perception of the bone adj saddle now 10 days or two weeks later...was interesting reading the initial impressions, but would like to hear them a couple weeks later now. Personally, I bought the bone saddle ASAP, but quickly reached a chickening out stage of putting it in right after it came in the mail. I began to realize I really I like the tusq saddle's sound and feel and began questioning if I like it so much, why am I bothering changing it to bone. So its now just sitting on my table unopened for about two weeks now. I'm thinking I might file it away in the case's pick box in case I ever decide to try it out...and it does feel good to know I have a bone saddle for my J45 Adj for the sake of having it in reserve, but I'm beginning to think I may never actually get around to trying it. Strange how this guitar thang with liking or chasing a sound can be. And, how sometimes one has to admit one likes the sound one has and therefore should know when to keep it as one likes it. Ah guitar playing/owning...one could write a book about its nuances and one's personal journey. (Course five years from now I could put it, like and then wonder why it took me so long.) One of these days I'll put it, I guess. One of these days. Just some musical meandering...thanks for listening. Any comments are welcome. QM aka Jazzman Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuestionMark Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 Interested in hearing your perception of the bone adj saddle now 10 days or two weeks later...was interesting reading the initial impressions, but would like to hear them a couple weeks later now. Personally, I bought the bone saddle ASAP, but quickly reached a chickening out stage of putting it in right after it came in the mail. I began to realize I really I like the tusq saddle's sound and feel and began questioning if I like it so much, why am I bothering changing it to bone. So its now just sitting on my table unopened for about two weeks now. I'm thinking I might file it away in the case's pick box in case I ever decide to try it out...and it does feel good to know I have a bone saddle for my J45 Adj for the sake of having it in reserve, but I'm beginning to think I may never actually get around to trying it. Strange how this guitar thang with liking or chasing a sound can be. And, how sometimes one has to admit one likes the sound one has and therefore should know when to keep it as one likes it. Ah guitar playing/owning...one could write a book about its nuances and one's personal journey. (Course five years from now I could put it, like and then wonder why it took me so long.) One of these days I'll put it, I guess. One of these days. Just some musical meandering...thanks for listening. Any comments are welcome. QM aka Jazzman Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red 333 Posted June 24, 2012 Author Share Posted June 24, 2012 Personally, I bought the bone saddle ASAP, but quickly reached a chickening out stage of putting it in right after it came in the mail. I began to realize I really I like the tusq saddle's sound and feel and began questioning if I like it so much, why am I bothering changing it to bone. Just loosen the strings, pop the pins, turn the screws to free the old saddle, plop the bone one in, and lower it. Put the strings' ball ends back through the holes, reinsert the pins, tune to pitch, and make final adjustments to the action. If you don't like how the guitar sounds, reverse the process and put the original saddle back in. It doesn't take long to change the adj. saddle, you won't need new strings (unless you want to change them), and the process is totally reversible in a short amount of time. It's worth the 10-15 minute investment in time, just to see what happens. red 333 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuestionMark Posted June 24, 2012 Share Posted June 24, 2012 You have made it sound like its worth a try...thanks. QM aka Jazzman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeatleBoy Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 I wish some one would make an exact vintage spec ceramic saddle too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobouz Posted August 16, 2012 Share Posted August 16, 2012 I wish some one would make an exact vintage spec ceramic saddle too! Guess it's always good to hang on to miscellaneous parts. For over thirty years, I've kept the complete plastic bridge & ceramic saddle assembly that came off my '65 B-25n when it was replaced with an ebony bridge (for structural reasons). I recently lucked upon a very nice Epi Cortez FT-45n, with a plastic bridge & rosewood saddle insert. One of these days I'll be popping in that old ceramic saddle to give it a test drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenchie1281734003 Posted September 15, 2012 Share Posted September 15, 2012 Interested in hearing your perception of the bone adj saddle now 10 days or two weeks later...was interesting reading the initial impressions, but would like to hear them a couple weeks later now. Just a late update, I put the new Bone ADJ saddle in on the 13th June, and it is still there. I much prefer it too the others I have used. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red 333 Posted September 15, 2012 Author Share Posted September 15, 2012 Just a late update, I put the new Bone ADJ saddle in on the 13th June, and it is still there. I much prefer it too the others I have used. Steve. Good to hear. I just took my Texan out for the first time today since I too changed the saddle. Sounded very good (though I am getting less comfortable with the slim width of the neck the more I play my J-45 Legend with its baseball bat neck! Red 333 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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