Jeffer Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 I have what I think is a Black ES-300 with identification number or FON number 2844 with a dash 15 in red pencil in F-hole. It does not have a label inside and wondering if it should have a label. I'm assuming it was built in 1944 or 45 and custom ordered if it is black? I hope these pictures will work, as I'm new to this board.....thanks......Jeff http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb386/jeffer6/ES-300/DSC00466.jpg http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb386/jeffer6/ES-300/DSC00096.jpg http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb386/jeffer6/ES-300/DSC00095.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimR56 Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Jeff, that is a beauty. I'd say you're right in the ballpark with your dating. One thing you may or may not know... the upper portion of your pickguard is beginning to decompose (the lighter area adjacent to the 15th through the 18th frets). When this happens, a gas is released which damages the finish on metal parts. It can travel through the air inside the case, but the nearest metal parts are most at risk (it appears that the frets in that area are already affected). The gas can also damage the case lining. If that were my guitar, I would remove the pickguard immediately, and put it in a sealed plastic bag. I would also vacuum out the case. A new pickguard could be made using the original binding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retrorod Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 I have what I think is a Black ES-300 with identification number or FON number 2844 with a dash 15 in red pencil in F-hole. It does not have a label inside and wondering if it should have a label. I'm assuming it was built in 1944 or 45 and custom ordered if it is black? I hope these pictures will work, as I'm new to this board.....thanks......Jeff http://i1203.photobu...00/DSC00466.jpg http://i1203.photobu...00/DSC00096.jpg http://i1203.photobu...00/DSC00095.jpg Yikes!....I'm in LUV....again.... Oh Yeah, Jeff...Welcome to the forum! Keep the guitar porn coming..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffer Posted February 19, 2013 Author Share Posted February 19, 2013 Jeff, that is a beauty. I'd say you're right in the ballpark with your dating. One thing you may or may not know... the upper portion of your pickguard is beginning to decompose (the lighter area adjacent to the 15th through the 18th frets). When this happens, a gas is released which damages the finish on metal parts. It can travel through the air inside the case, but the nearest metal parts are most at risk (it appears that the frets in that area are already affected). The gas can also damage the case lining. If that were my guitar, I would remove the pickguard immediately, and put it in a sealed plastic bag. I would also vacuum out the case. A new pickguard could be made using the original binding. Thank you for your reply. That decomposed area is mostly (probably all) my mistake. The cellulose block or wood that was glued onto neck and body of guitar that held that upper portion of the pickguard on crumbled, so I glued a piece of wood on it and is crystallizing a portion of the guard. Evidently the glue I used was not the right glue and I don't remember what I used. Now I need to take it to a luthier to undo my folly. The pick guard has since lifted off the glued block which I think is a good thing. I should have known better. When I take the pick guard off, there is one Phillips screw attached to the body. I hope it comes out easy, I don't want to do another snafu. I imagine if I send a pic of my pile of poop mistake on the fix um up guitar board, I'll get some groans but I hope it would be a easy fix. Anybody have any ideas on the guitar not having a label? ...Thanks.......Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffer Posted February 19, 2013 Author Share Posted February 19, 2013 Yikes!....I'm in LUV....again.... Oh Yeah, Jeff...Welcome to the forum! Keep the guitar porn coming..... Thank you for your welcome. The guitar, I think, is in fairly good shape but has a two dings in the finish. One on the upper side of guitar and a small scratch on the back body. Neck and frets look like there was very little time played on it. I do see the gas effects on the upper frets, so off comes the pick guard. Thanks again for the welcome, and if there is something you know or can find out about my ES-300 such as pinpointing more closely the year it was made, or if it should have a label inside, I'd appreciate any information you can drum up. Later...Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimR56 Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 Jeff, don't be too hard on yourself regarding your attempt to fix the pickguard issue. It's not that big a deal, and those old pickguards always decompose sooner or later anyway. I've had a couple of them go like that, and I didn't do anything to initiate the process. It's a chemical thing, brought on by age. Also, if you take the guitar to someone, do NOT let them replace any other parts, or refinish the guitar. Just so you know. Some repair people don't know what they're doing, and this is a very special old guitar in very nice condition. I wouldn't worry about the missing label. I don't think it's all that uncommon for a guitar from that era (wartime) to not have a label. It could have fallen out. Either way, this appears to be a very rare guitar, because Gibson produced very few of these after we entered the war. The black finish was used on some special instruments during the war, which helps to verify the date and originality. The pickup (with no visible poles) is quite rare and unusual also. I would recommend contacting Gruhn Guitars in Nashville, and seek more details about this instrument. It's really a treasure, in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffer Posted February 19, 2013 Author Share Posted February 19, 2013 Jeff, don't be too hard on yourself regarding your attempt to fix the pickguard issue. It's not that big a deal, and those old pickguards always decompose sooner or later anyway. I've had a couple of them go like that, and I didn't do anything to initiate the process. It's a chemical thing, brought on by age. Also, if you take the guitar to someone, do NOT let them replace any other parts, or refinish the guitar. Just so you know. Some repair people don't know what they're doing, and this is a very special old guitar in very nice condition. I wouldn't worry about the missing label. I don't think it's all that uncommon for a guitar from that era (wartime) to not have a label. It could have fallen out. Either way, this appears to be a very rare guitar, because Gibson produced very few of these after we entered the war. The black finish was used on some special instruments during the war, which helps to verify the date and originality. The pickup (with no visible poles) is quite rare and unusual also. I would recommend contacting Gruhn Guitars in Nashville, and seek more details about this instrument. It's really a treasure, in my opinion. thanks again for quick response....I won't have anything replaced or do anything with the finish. I thought the pickup had a cover of some sort, that covered the poles. I haven't monkeyed with the electronics and won't. I got the guitar 20 some years ago through a swap of a VW super beetle. I was raising 4 kids at the time the pick guard issue happened, so I took it upon myself to do a band aid job. I know a guy that worked for Gibson in Bozeman, may still work there or retired, but hope to get in touch with him and get his opinion to whom to take the guitar to. He gave me a private tour of the factory some years ago, and as a picker, I've been drooling ever since. My younger years (60's) we played and bought Fender. I still have all my 60"s equipment, as of yet. Now acoustics is my main staple, (J50 mid 70's) as it can sit next to my front room chair, pick it up and play.. The pick guard came off easy and is in a safe place. Any good way I can clean up the upper frets myself, without causing harm? Boy you have a good eye!! I didn't notice those upper frets. Also the binding on the case, as you said, is coming loose in spots. I sent a picture of the cardboard case. I was shocked when you predicted this. I plan on putting new strings on the beast. The bridge is self adjusting, and there must be a trick to position it in the right place. Sorry for all these questions but ones on this board, no doubt, have been seasoned with more knowledge of these older guitars. I was afraid to play this one for the fragile pick guard, but now that it is off, I'm anxious to put it through a few rounds. I also should do some research and see how I should store the guitar. I've never really taken super care of my guitars because I always played them hard and very often, and when the finish got sticky enough from sweat, I'd finally clean them up. I bought the guitars to use, so they got some wear. Although I'll take care of this one and nurse it back to health....Sorry for long post....Jeff http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/bb386/jeffer6/ES-300/DSC00460.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimR56 Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 To be honest, my comment about potential damage to the case was referring to the case lining (I was imagining a hard case with plush lining). If you look at the photo of the open case, you'll see a large spot inside the lid where the color is lighter (when the case is closed, it's the part of the lid that sits right above the portion of the pickguard that's decomposing). That's what I was talking about. The gas is already doing damage to the underside of the case lid. I've heard stories about this gas causing cases to catch fire (not sure if that's true or not, but at least you've already removed that pickguard). If that were my guitar, I would keep the case you have, but find a nice hard case to actually store the guitar in. As far as storing the guitar, treat it like it's a person. If you're comfortable in terms of temperature and humidity, the guitar should be fine. If you live in a cold climate, avoid subjecting it to sudden temperature changes. All of us here could offer thoughts and ideas about your other questions, but I want to stress this: that guitar is no ordinary old guitar. It's special. It's rare, unusual, and historically significant. I would contact Gruhn Guitars, have them answer your questions, and have them appraise the instrument. You could have it set up professionally in your locale, but be sure to find someone who is highly regarded and highly competent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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