PrairieDog

Playing the historian’s variation of the “6 degrees” game, this kinda blew my mind: In 1972, I was introduced to a sweet, 104 year old lady who took care of four generations of my family. Years later I did the math and realized I had spoken with a women who knew my ggg grandparents who were born in Virginia in the 1780s. So here in the 21st century, I’m only 1 degree separated from knowing people who lived in the 18th century. Not really here nor there, but just kinda shows how “ancient” history isn’t really so far away. So to bring it home, “you know you are old when: you knew people who knew people who could’ve known George Washington?”

Oh, sorry, by “pick up” I meant when I go into learning a new instrument, not that I’m picking up new guitars willy nilly, chuckle. I wish it was like that, then my dilemma choosing between a pricey rare Martin and a budget conscious run of the mill J 45 would be solved, lol.

Wise words as usual, 40. So, duh. The light bulb went on this morning and I googled “D28 Brazilian” without all the anniversary floof, and sure, now I see for a guitar with that build it does seem a very reasonable price, even among the sold ones. Oh, and I think I need reset my image just a bit? I realized I am kinda coming off like an insufferable 1 percenter to whom money doesn’t matter. No, I’m not really Bezos lurking on the Gibson forum, grin. I’m just blessed to have fewer obligations than most, at the cost of not having any kids, rueful chuckle. Yet, even so, I still need to be practical, and this would be an unexpected expenditure right now. But I agree, when opportunities pop up, it’s better to make the stretch for something special if you can manage it. I think I’ll make another run back down there when there are less distractions and hubbub than on a Saturday afternoon.

Nod exactly. Whenever picking up a new instrument, I always buy the best I can afford rather than waste money on beginner, or student versions that don’t have the tone, response and playability you need to really “learn” and love playing that instrument. Lessons on less than instruments often become an exercise in “compensating for the shortcomings” rather just relaxing into the learning. Sure as a kid, I could plink out little Bach tunes on my toy piano, but it was a heck of a lot more fun to play on the Steinway when that came into the house.

To follow up on the replies suggesting other Martin’s. I’ve always shied away from them, until this one, I just couldn’t make them into anything. Hence why this one is so exciting. We had to go into town today, so we swung by GC to try a new HD28 with Indian rosewood to compare and for half the price, hoping maybe it was just the model that was working for me. But no. It was “nice,” but it was kinda thin. It just didn’t have the overtones or presence of the 40 year old one. That helped confirm I really am on to something with this one particular Martin. So it’s in the mix of possibilities. I’m just not sure where because I also took a minute to retry the new J45 from last week, and yeah, that one still felt like “home.” Comfortable, sweet, deep and just “there.” Terrible decisions to make.

Thanks for the tips so far. Nod, I would start with offer, but, not knowing anything about the market, as Dave mentioned, I don’t want to be insulting right out of the gate. It’s why I am hoping to get a feel for where the reasonable market is if I can. I really appreciate Dave Fs comment about his experience. Another factor in play is the shop is a small independent musical institution around here, with a strong community following, and barely hanging on against the big chains. I am acutely aware there is a potential that any price adjustments could come out of their commission, since they might be more likely to take the hit themselves than ding a loyal customer who consigned it. They are that kind of shop. I know, I shouldn’t be so concerned, capitalism, right? But as a small business owner myself, I want to be fair and not take advantage. It’s not that I can’t afford it, I just don’t want to be foolish and overpay so much that I’m underwater on it if I had to move it on in the future. Breaking even is okay, taking a bath kinda hurts.

Oh, sorry, the offers are on the SJ, the Martin is supposedly firm.

Okay, so some of you know now I’ve had weirdness about not being able to “hear” Martins very well? They just sound muddy to my poor metal-busted ears? Well, it may be I’ve been playing the wrong ones. I was in a little out of the way shop yesterday that has a 1985 issue of the Martin D 28 150th anniversary model with Brazilian b/s and sitka top, ebony fingerboard. It really sang, and now I understand what folks are going on about with Martins. I was kinda blown away, even with some pretty sad looking strings on it. It looks to be in perfect shape, and otherwise looked “right” with both Martin hand sigs on the label, stamps, etc. The shop is asking $6950 for it, but I can’t find any comparables to tell if that is a decent/fair price or not. Of course there are older D28 Brazilians up in the stratosphere, and I know that RW is particularly special. The only other one I can find for sale right now is the 1983 first issue, asking $12,000. But there are quite a few regular D28s in the 2-4,000 range, granted not with Brazilian. I don’t know if those would suit me just as well or if it really is the Brazilian that is catching me. So, help me out? Is the Brazilian rosewood alone and historic build worth that much of mark up? I am not savvy enough in the Martin market to know if that is a decent/fair price. If this a unique opportunity, I may not want to pass it up, but I also don’t want to get caught out paying extra for limited edition “hype.” The shop is not guitar-centric, and I think mostly consignments or trades on other instruments. I think the consignors are setting the prices. To compare, they have a 1970s SJ200 with a large crack on the top the consigner was asking 3,700 for but is now taking reasonable offers. On the other hand, if the Martin really is worth this much then I would be pretty happy bringing home (even though I wasn’t expecting to drop 7 gees on another add quite so soon, ack!) Thanks in advance all you Martin folks for any wise counsel you can offer.

Crying - Roy Orbison or the kd lang version

(That one made me smile, tx! Thanks!) Do You Believe in Magic? - Lovin’ Spoonful

Nod, there is that. All flippancy aside, having “been dead once” I can attest at the time I wasn’t too thrilled about being pulled back. And, tbh, there are moments I wonder whether it was the right move or not, grim chuckle. But overall it’s been an interesting ride that is good to be on.

Thanks, I never fret them, believing it’s better than the alternative 😄

It’s not any kind of “checking.” Checking is a specific type of cracking of the finish that follows the woodgrain, like the pic above, and does go through the finish. Wood and finishes, both lacquer and poly, have different expansion tolerances, with wood more responsive and elastic and the finish more stable and brittle. So when the wood expands from rapid temp/humidity changes, the finish can’t adjust fast enough to take the strain and breaks along the wood grain, leaving the classic “checkered” pattern in the finish. What you and I are seeing are just scratches. Anything sharp lightly dragged over the surface would cause it and does not have to go through the finish. Box cutters are just common shop tools. You’d get the same swirly effect if a grain of sand was momentarily caught in a polishing cloth. Of course, that would create sincere marks found on a legit vintage. Maybe that is really what ML is trying to replicate with the scratch treatment? A single incident of poor polishing?

You know you are old when on the phone you are asked give your birthdate to verify your ID and you say “eleven four, the middle of the last century.” Ended up with an early senior discount on our phone bill because I threw the kid so bad. 😆

Please listen to your wife. Despite her pleas, our 70-something neighbor insisted on climbing the ladder to clean the gutters himself because he could do it and didn’t want to wait for help, a moment later he was dead on the ground, and his wife running to find him there after hearing the crash. In a blink he left her alone and completely unprepared. It turned her life upside down. She tried, but she couldn’t manage all by herself, and finally had to sell their cozy little home. It was a needless, tragic heartbreak from just a moment of vain self-centeredness. Please don’t give history a chance to repeat itself.

Yours shows what real, natural checking looks like. What GibsonChiq has, (and her pic shows pretty well) and the one I tried is a surface scratching treatment that loops and swirls around on the back of the guitar as if someone took a box cutter to it. It makes no sense. As I was trying to say in my first post in the thread, I’m not sure what use-wear pattern that is trying to emulate, unless replicating a polishing cloth with a grain of sand embedded in it? Mine also had the lumpy avocado texture of a rushed lacquer job. I totally agree that making fake relics is problematic for possibly clouding the future of “real” vintage vs modern, especially if unscrupulous sellers start doing things like fudging/tampering with labels and serial numbers. An unintended consequence is that discriminating, experienced buyers “should” have enough clues to tell the difference, but casual and hobby folks, like me, could get burned. And if enough folks get fooled, it could dampen the whole market if folks start to mistrust whether any “vintage” guitar is really just a modern copy. I know Gibson’s job isn’t in protecting resales, except that the massive used market helps feed their mystical image and justifies the lasting value of their product. Who knows? Maybe that is their plan all along: to crash the resale market and drive everyone to just buy new “old” guitars. Chuckle….wait…..

By-Tor and the Snow Dog - Rush

Again, I’m not doubting that some original versions had rushed or poor finishes, that is my kinda my point. I’m just wondering why ML thinks people should pay 1,500 dollars more for the effect? Especially since they don’t seem to be tone-wise any different from the other high end torrefied replica guitars. It would be nice if they explained what ML is intending by “relic-ing.” To me, relic-ing a guitar implies artificially adding the natural checking, dings and scratches that happen over decades. There are plenty of true, beautiful vintage guitars that have even, mellow, aged finishes with honest use marks. But they don’t all have drippy color, or uneven lacquer (not the spiderweb effect you are talking about, I’m talking about when you run your hands over the guitar the lacquer looks and feels softly bumpy all over, like an avocado, since my orange peel analogy doesn’t seem to be making my point). This was my main complaint on the one I played. Those sorts of issues aren’t a result of relic age, just bad factory work. A guitar either came like that new, or is the result of a bad refinish at some point. It just seems backwards to me to celebrate the poor finishes that came out of the factory and charge more for it. I do really understand you don’t care about the cosmetics, and I’m very glad the guitar sounds great to you. That is what is most important.

Rock You Like a Hurricane - Scorpions

Stones in the Road - Mary Chapin Carpenter

Thanks for this. I love these comparisons. They are so helpful. Wow, I’m really partial to the sound of that J-45. Perfect. The Martin is nice, but something about the harmonics and overtones in my ears, I just don’t hear Martins very well. I know they are lovely guitars and I do feel like I’m missing out. I’ve been looking for a mahogany guitar to add for a bit now. I posted a thread a while back asking about a “dead” j 45 I played at our GC. I got lots of good advice about what may have been the reason and to try others. Well, this weekend they had a new one in, and hoo boy! Now I really “get” the J 45 fandom. They also had a used Taylor 714 LTD with sinker redwood top and rosewood. I finally understand when folks talk about certain guitars being better for certain styles of playing. The J 45 was turning cartwheels on picking and strumming, really rich and musical, whatever I asked it to do. The Taylor just kinda sat out the dance for picking, the high notes just fell out unless I hit with just the right attack. But it was a horse race with the Gibson on strumming. It did make me pause for a second on the Taylor. Too bad my technique isn’t good enough yet to switch guitars mid-song from picking the J-45 for verses and solos, then grabbing the Taylor to strum along through the chorus, LOL. Anyway, I may be regretting I went home without the Gibson, erring on the discretion side of the budget since my spouse just picked up a 1934 National Duolian for a birthday present. Still, I am thinking about it more than I should be if I’m really not going to buy it, chuckle.

Me and That Train- Patty Larkin

I first “met” Gillian when a chance encounter with her version of Orphan Girl stopped me dead in my tracks. At the top of my playlist now. Remarkable.

Delta Dawn - written by Collins and Harvey

“Streets of Laredo” - Marty Robbins (PrairieDog ducks) I will now go sit in the corner…