bobouz

That should be a 1961 serial number. Hope you're enjoying the guitar!

I believe so.

I had one of those in the late ‘70s. Darn good sounding guitar, and the neck was not all that skinny - rather average profile, with a 1-11/16” nut.

Plain mustache without ribbon inlays (see J-100 avatar): Good stuff. Rectangular: Looks perfect on smaller bodies. Belly-up: Very cool, looks great on roundshoulders & small jumbos. Belly-down: Guild two-point is beautiful, Martin version is really boring. Just imho!

Best guess here is that if this guitar is truly Double-X braced, it conforms to the serial number listing that puts it in the 1970-1972 category. I would then speculate that it may have been made in late 1970, using up remaining ‘60s parts (bridge, pickguard, non-volute neck), but with the new Double-X bracing that becomes standard in Norlin’s major 1971 revamping of acoustic models. We know that ‘69 & ‘70 were years of some mix & match transition at Gibson, and this guitar appears to be another example of that.

For the Country-Western model, Gruhn’s vol-2 lists the following: 1962 (late) - Square shoulder dread, 3-point pickguared. 1969 - Belly below bridge. 1970 - Non-adjustable saddle. 1971 - Double-X bracing, 25.5” scale, teardrop pickguard. So this guitar seemingly breaks all the rules!

I like it better with the J-50ish pickguard, too. Congrats & Enjoy!

Love your group of instruments, and The Flatiron guitar is very cool! Thanks for sharing the info & photos.

There have been a number of variations in batwing pickguards, the most obvious being significant differences between jumbo, roundshoulder dread, & small-jumbo bodied guards. Terrapin’s two batwing guards reflect the jumbo & dread shape, but I’ve also observed clear differences just among J-45/J-50 guards. Some are wider at the top, and some have a more rounded shape at the outer base corner. But when it comes to the thick J-45/J-50 pickguards from the mid to late ‘60s, to my eye they’ve always looked quite consistent in shape. Without measuring, Boyd’s & the OP’s look to be the same shape. If this is true, the most notable difference would be in where they are mounted. Boyd’s starts right at the 16th fret, while the OP’s starts halfway between the 16th & 17th frets. This was clearly done to align the guard properly with the soundhole rosette. Therefore the OP’s soundhole is further from the top of the body, and/or a scale length issue is involved. Decades ago, I made some now grainy copies of the acoustic pages from the 1969 catalog, and these belly-down no-dot bridges are on the Hummingbird, Blue Ridge, and J-45/J-50 - which are all square-shouldered (the Heritage bridge has dots). The J-45/J-50 sports the teardrop pickguard. All are long-scale. Notably, there is only one roundshoulder in the catalog: a J-160E with a belly-down bridge, listed as also having a long scale. Additionally, a modified batwing guard is almost kissing the bridge. 1969 was truly a year of transition in Kalamazoo, with quite possibly a lot of cobbling of parts. Not only was Gibson completely revamping it’s lineup, but it was also the last year of on-site Epiphone production. Who knows, perhaps even some long-scale roundshoulder Texan parts were getting thrown into the use-it-all-up revamp hopper. Bottom line - There are a number of possibilities!

That should be from 1962. Photos would of course help to confirm!

You’ve got it backwards, RSBinTo. Whether you’re talking cameras, cars, or guitars, these forums bring together enthusiasts from around the world who collectively have far more detailed knowledge than you’re likely to gain from a shop owner in most communities. This collective wisdom is your easily accessible starting point. If you happen to live somewhere where a shop owner says he knows his stuff, and an in-hand assessment can be done, by all means, take it in & see how that jives with the information gained here. Better yet, come back here & share the shop owner’s info. For sure, there are some who know their stuff, but you’d be astonished at how often a local guy gets it wrong when it comes to vintage pieces. Sometimes this is simply because the local guy is mostly a Martin, Fender, or Guild Guy, but being the local “expert” is a weighty badge of distinction, and rarely will they admit to what they don’t definitively know.

Looks good. Rosewood insert substituted for the adjustable hardware, to allow for a standard saddle. Nice fat frets, typical of the era. Headstock appointments correct. Pickguards were apparently someone's idea of improved aesthetics!

Don’t know the details about your pickups, but I have a Gibson Tennessean made in 1990, and it too has a very pleasing tone. Chalk it up to a very good year!

Because of the hype historically surrounding Martin, I imagine lots of folks pick them up & expect to hear the sound of angels singing. They do make some great guitars, but they also make a lot of rather pedestrian sounding instruments, just like all the other manufacturers.

The block inlays started in 1971, along with other Norlin Era changes such as double-X bracing, so your mom bought a ‘71 or ‘72 model. Totally agree that a recent issue Hummingbird would be a great way to go. Hope you happily end up with a new one!

From the 1969 Gibson catalog, I copied the acoustic pages a long time ago. Note that this was pre-Norlin-changes, so we’re talking belly-down adjustable bridges & heavier build characteristics - but still more in common with earlier Kalamazoo design compared to later double-X bracing efforts. Anyway, the J-160E remained a slope-shoulder at that time, and it’s listed with a 25.5” scale. All the square-shoulders are 25.5”, including the Dove, Heritage, Hummingbird, Blue Ridge, Southern Jumbo, J-50, and J-45. And very interestingly, the Everly Brothers model (with slightly modified pickguards) is listed as having a 25.5” scale! Earlier versions of course were short scale, so that’s something I’d never noticed. Indeed, the very-late ‘60s included some rather odd transitional stuff!

Congrats on the new 335! Personally, I find Grovers to be more consistent in their construction, as compared to the assorted manufacturers Gibson has used over the years to supply their Kluson style tulip tuners. Stick with the Grovers, and you'll probably be happy. However, if you really like the look of tulip buttons, check out the buttons available from Hipshot. Most of them will fit Grovers, including their version of the tulip style. Enjoy!

I’m “The guy” who posted that information over six years ago, and yes, it is accurate. But the key qualifier regarding this info, is that it was taken from Gibson’s 1980 catalog. Acoustically, the 1980 catalog includes the J-200, Dove, Heritage, Hummingbird, J-55, J-50, J-45, & J-40, and all had the same long 25.5” scale. This was deep into the Norlin era of ownership, when many traditional Gibson guitar traits had been set aside. The short 24.75” scale was found on many (not all) Gibson acoustics prior to the Norlin era, and later returned to the iconic models that had once featured it, including the J-45 and J-50.

Great to hear from you!

Well, if we’re talking cars, it would be either a minty AC Cobra or a ‘57 Corvette. As for guitars, that’s easy: a 1950s J-185. Oh, and if there’s some cash left over, an early ‘60s ES-330 would be nice!

Good solution! That “Genuine Historic” 1950s version TRC I mentioned above was last running $24.95 before it was no longer available. $1.90 is rather hard to beat!

My goodness - All the best to you Jinder. Hoping for a speedy & complete recovery, and looking forward to your next visit here. Thank you to all those wonderful hospital folks! They’ll be taking very good care of you.

Imho, this guitar forum has always suffered from a lack of having moderators who are active on an ongoing basis, and at the same time consistent. What good is a rule that says “no political discussions” if such discussions can take hold & go three or more pages before anything possibly happens? This was the case with Murph’s Covid thread in the Lounge, for which he was the OP. It turned into a political shite-show, and I finally contacted a moderator about it. Whether or not you agree with Murph’s politics (which I do not), he rather frequently interjected his political opinions into conversations on this board. The forum guideline is there, and it would be helpful if it were meaningfully applied. The same goes for rude & combative behavior, of which Jerry K was a purveyor, quite often in a tag-team with Hogeye. I had a few major go-rounds with these two (as did many others) back in the day, and my bottom line question was this: Why in the world can’t you share your knowledge and remain civil? The only two other forums where I participate (guitar forums), are closely moderated and very well run in comparison to this forum. They are large in participant numbers, enthusiasm, and good will. I continue to participate on this forum because I’m very fond of Gibson guitars, know a fair amount about them, enjoy sharing information, and still like to gain new tidbits of knowledge. Clearly, there will always be folks who feel the need to be combative & snarky - but they’ll only gain relevance on here if moderators allow them to - and to the extent that they do, I believe it detracts from the forum’s participation and growth. I started playing guitar at the age of twenty & quickly got interested in quality construction details, the history of the instrument, and techniques. Next June I’ll turn seventy, and guitars for me remain a highly positive diversion from “real life.” I look for the same thing in a guitar forum.

Emmel, you’d be surprised by how many headstocks are slanted to some extent. I first began checking this out carefully after purchasing a guitar many years ago that could not be properly dialed in (action, relief, intonation) due to a twisted neck. From that point on, I’ve always done an eyeball test to look for possible neck issues when assessing a potential purchase. Many headstocks lean slightly in one direction or the other, but playability is typically not effected. In the case of these ES Gibson models, it is clear that compensation took place at the factory to account for this, and structural stability should not be a factor.

The nut & headstock are indeed out of parallel with the body, but it’s the fingerboard that matters in this case - and it looks level. Visually this is tricky, in part because the nut has been cut higher on the bass side to compensate for string diameter, which increases the canted appearance.