Rabs
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Gibson files to cancel DiMarzio’s PAF and Double Cream pickup trademarks (guitar.com)
Gibson files to cancel DiMarzio’s PAF and Double Cream pickup trademarks
The brand is arguing that the marks have become generic after years of use across the industry.Gibson has filed a legal request to cancel two of DiMarzio’s pickup trademarks: the term “PAF”, and the ‘Double Cream’ design of an uncovered humbucker with two cream-coloured bobbins.
How did we get here?
“P.A.F.” – or patent applied for – pickups are associated with Gibson guitars dating back to the 1950s. So how did DiMarzio come by the “PAF” trademark? While the “patent applied for” sticker was found on Gibson’s humbuckers until 1962, these originals weren’t marketed as P.A.F.s, or PAFs. Or really, marketed at all: the idea of selling a pickup by itself as an aftermarket upgrade wasn’t really established until the 1970s, when Larry DiMarzio expanded his business from a few mail-orders to a widely-distributed brand with celebrity endorsements and magazine adverts.In 1978, DiMarzio (the company) was granted a trademark for the colloquial shortening “PAF” in reference to an “electronic sound transducer for picking up the sounds of a guitar in a sound amplification system.” In non-legalese: a pickup. The trademark claims a first use in commerce of 1976, implying that the “patent applied for” stickers on the back of already-fitted humbuckers were, at the time and in the eyes of the trademark office, legally distinct from DiMarzio’s early aftermarket units aiming to replicate that sound.
DiMarzio’s double cream trademark isn’t a wordmark. Instead, it covers the “double design” of a pickup (IE, an open humbucker), with both bobbins being “the colour yellow which resembles the distinctive shade of cream.” This trademark was granted in 1981 with its first use in commerce listed as 1974. The earliest DiMarzio pickup, the Super Distortion, was sold in the open-bobbin, double-cream format. But while the mark was granted, the Super Distortion wasn’t the very first double cream pickup in the world: depending on the brand’s supply of bobbins at the time, uncovered Gibson pickups came in a mix of black, black and cream (or ‘zebra’) and double cream. But, again, DiMarzio being granted the mark implies that the trademark office did not see a conflict there.
Gibson’s case
Gibson’s cancellation case claims that both the PAF and Double Cream marks owned by DiMarzio no longer apply. It makes the following main arguments:Gibson takes priority over DiMarzio for both marks, because it was selling guitars with double-cream humbuckers and using “patent applied for”/PAF before DiMarzio was even founded.
When DiMarzio filed for the trademarks, it didn’t own the double-cream design or the phrase “patent applied for”/PAF.
Because many other brands (Gibson included) have marketed both double-cream humbuckers and “PAF”-style humbuckers in the years since, the design and the wordmark are now both “generic” – and therefore not trademarkable. Gibson’s case cites a huge variety of brands, from budget makers selling on Amazon to Wilkinson to Seymour Duncan.
Cream is a common colour for guitar plastics (pickguards, switch tips etc). Guitarists modifying an instrument will want all of their guitar’s plastics – including both humbucker bobbins – to match. Therefore, the design for the “double cream” pickup is “functional”, and therefore not trademarkable.
The “PAF” mark is “deceptively misdirective”, in that, because the guitar industry associates the “patent applied for”/PAF pickups with Gibson, DiMarzio’s trademark is deceiving buyers into thinking Gibson has sanctioned its products in some way.
At the time of the filings, DiMarzio was aware that Gibson was the owner of double-cream design and the PAF term in relation to pickups. Therefore it committed fraud on US the trademark office when it filed for the two trademarks.
Gibson’s case was filed late last month, and accepted as a case on 4 December. DiMarzio is yet to file a reply, but has until 13 January next year to do so.Gibson declined to comment on the filing when approached by Guitar.com for comment.
DiMarzio offered the following statement in regards to the case:
“The DiMarzio double cream bobbin trademark has been recognised by guitar consumers for almost half a century, that specific pickups with our distinctive color emanate from DiMarzio and we are proud that millions of these pickups have been sold, and that all have been made in the US.
“We are also proud that so many guitar companies have chosen to install our double cream bobbin pickups in their instruments. Musicians know that when they see that DiMarzio color trademark embodied on our pickups that they are looking at a pickup that they can count on for quality and great tone. We have always vigorously defended our trademarks and will continue to do so.”
If Gibson is successful and DiMarzio’s marks are cancelled, it seems unlikely that Gibson will file for equivalent trademarks of its own – mainly because it is already arguing that the marks are generic. If this argument is successful, it would complicate any application to trademark the same things. In any case, the stage is set for another legal battle for Gibson.
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3 minutes ago, sparquelito said:
I like it a lot.
We're playing a gig on Friday.
It'll be my main guitar.
That and the old Strat.
🙂Nice.. Id be more interested I think if they did the Standard looking ones.. The ones I have seen in the past (the LP Less Plus etc), from the front you cant even tell its any different from a normal sized one... Maybe if these do well they will do some more.
Let us know how it performs at the gig 👍
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On 11/3/2023 at 10:47 PM, sparquelito said:
Oh, one thing.
The guitar came in this new Gibson black soft case.
I LOVE this case.
rct would love this.
😐
https://www.gibson.com/en-US/Product/ASSFCASE-BLK/ASSFCASE-BLK
Big, sturdy, tough zippers on this bad boy.
Made to last.So.. A month or so later. Hows it going with this guitar?
Still impressed or just a gimmick?
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Sounds like a Gibson S series Les Paul Custom Studio
Gibson S Series Les Paul Custom Studio 2017 | Reverb UK
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6 minutes ago, Dub-T-123 said:
I really can’t even use a Champ at home without feeling inconsiderate to my neighbors. This is going to sound GREAT compared to a loud amp set as quiet as it will go.
In my case the convenience of using this is a massive selling point. Finally I can just plug in and play without hooking up a laptop and interface and then deal with a bunch of menus and settings. My other alternative was driving half an hour to my ratty little rehearsal space that cost like $500 a month. I could get all the pants flapping tone I want over there but theres so many downsides to that
Is this the tone that’s gonna make me a big famous rockstar? Probably not. This is like come home from work grab a beer take a bong toke and chill on the couch with the Les Paul a while.
Have you ever thought about a Boss Micro BR?
I have had one for ages.. The whole point of it for me was that it has effects and drums and a tuner all built in and its also a four track recorder.. But cos it has a headphone socket you can just plug straight it to it and jam.. You can also load backing tracks or create your own with the recorder. I have mentioned it many times on here but no one ever seems interested.
They are honestly really really good for that. My brother in law bought one on my recommendation and loves it.
BOSS Br-80 Portable Digital Recorder,Silver : Amazon.co.uk: Musical Instruments & DJ
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11 hours ago, Dub-T-123 said:
It seems like a great deal. I’m a pedal nerd and I’ve been paying close attention to this particular segment of the market and this is the most exciting thing I’ve seen come out in a long time
Andertons liked it too.. Apparently they will be about £180 over here which is really good.. Thinking about one myself now 🙂
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Great version
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47 minutes ago, Dub-T-123 said:
Just preordered mine through sweetwater. It was about $215 with tax in California. I’ll let you guys know what I think of it when I get it.
Nice.. For what it is, thats not too bad considering how much some pedals can be these days and what it can do..
Look forward to hearing about it 👍
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Nice.. Shame about the guitar 😄
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19 hours ago, Dub-T-123 said:
In those videos you may not be able to see the object in great detail but you can’t compare its behavior to any known vehicle/object.
It’s not fair to say you could be looking at anything. You know you aren’t looking at a known object, not based on the clarity of the footage, but based on the object’s behavior.
Videos taken by fighter pilots using millions of dollars worth of the most advanced military technology have vastly higher credibility than anything that has ever been associated with Bigfoot or the Loch Ness monster etc
Not trying to convince anyone one way or the other and obviously I have no authority on the matter anyways. Just trying to be objective about it
While I generally agree with you.. Why is it that with this millions of dollars worth of the latest best equipment that they cant get a defined clear picture... Not a single one?
So while people can believe what they want.. All those pictures are is proof of something unidentified... Not proof of aliens.. As for what those videos are, donno.. But im not automatically going to assume its aliens.
Like take this drone.. It moves in a very unusual way. And was 3D printed by a man in his home.. If thats what a normal guy can do with a 3D printer. What do the army have that we have never seen and are un aware of?
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2 hours ago, Murph said:
So, you think those Navy Tic Tac videos are fake...
I dont think its a case of any videos like that being fake as much as, really they show you nothing but a blur, you could be looking at anything.. The same with any so called pictures of bigfoot or the loch ness monster or ghosts... They are either proven fake or show you nothing of consequence.
In saying that the idea of being the only life in a whole universe seems impossible. But I dont think any of them have ever been here. More than likely we are too far away from any life for that to ever happen. Interstellar travel may not actually be possible... Id like to believe it is though 🙂
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Why is it some people come on here and ask questions like this and then never seem to come back?
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Well hes done the walk of life.. Maybe hes selling them as he is in dire straits.
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2 hours ago, Sgt. Pepper said:
I got the sad face again. Does Gibson sell the t-shirts like Tom has with the boob on it?
yes...
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Yeah, id go for one of those golf bag ones if I were in the market.. I think they come in black too..
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If you dont want to watch the whole thing go to 21:00 in and check out Tom's relicing tool kit 😄 Yes it really is what we always thought.
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When I was building.. Well I guess I still am.. Sorta..
Anyway, I would not take chances 🙂 In saying that some people didnt mind it, but id say most people had an issue with just having something that looks so different from what they are used too.. My idea was the thicker the better as long as it plays ok. Which obviously I thought it did.. I think on the next ones if I ever get to finishing them I will try the more traditional look one that people are used too.. Frikken weirdo conservative electric guitar players 😄
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I thought that Apex design they came up with a while back was pretty cool..
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This is why.. Take a look at a sectional view of the side of a neck and look how much wood is under the nut access area.. Its kinda scary.... This and the reasons mentioned above.. 17 degree neck angle and string tension. And yes its a design flaw, but Gibson are a company whos business is based on tradition. They do try and make modern improvements but the 50s guitars have such a reputation that even today, thats still what people want, flaws n all...
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1 minute ago, Kurital said:
It's really nice to have such a conversation with you! I learned a lot. Thanks for the time and patience.
Yeah, I quoted a line from Steve Vai, "the only thing that's holding you back is your mind".
Thanks again, pal.
No worries.. That is why we are here after all..
Happy playing man.. That is a nice guitar you have for sure.. 👍
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38 minutes ago, Kurital said:
That looks cool, man. Yeah, we all get inspired by Slash, don't we? When I was like 12 or 13, I watched GNR 92 in Tokyo, which totally blew me away. The guitar playing was impressive, totally different from what I heard before. For years to come, before I have my first guitar, I moved on to listen to Nirvana, the grunge style, you know, so, after I get my first guitar, I directly went to play like Smells like teen spirit, come as you are, drain you, etc. So, in a way, I was not actually practicing any solo skills (we all know what Kurt did with his guitar and music).
Although I had my guitar for like 10 years, I never really took many time to practice it, I had to admit, I was playing my PS4 for hours and hours,.
Now I got my new Slash LP, part of the reason is that I want to practice it now, I want to play now. I don't care if I'm going to a gig or play in front of ppl, I just want to play what I love by myself.
We have all been there.. I also probably spent a good ten years or so when I was concentrating on work and hardly played at all.. I could play ok and do some lead but didnt really know what I was doing at all.. It was only when I came on here I started learning about pentatonics and technical stuff to do with guitars when I actually started getting better.. And like you I am a by ear player mainly but still these vids help when you get stuck.
And this is also why I say its better to experiment and find your own sound. Most of us have a limited time and budget for guitar which means we can never learn everything we want.. But thats cool, as you say most of us play for the love of playing.. Gigging is cool but most of us dont have time to fit that in or maybe even want too... Its all good there are no rules here. Do what makes you happy. End of.
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4 minutes ago, Kurital said:
Guess I have a lot of work to do and practice, man, it's hard but it will be fun, I guess
Yup.. All part of the experience.. 🙂
By the way I am a big Slash fan too.. One of the reasons I play guitar and why I bought this. Id love a Slash LP but he likes fat necks and thats one thing that is a no go for me. So I have a LP Classic which is my main LP and a Slash SL5. These old Classics have really hot pickups in them so I get that sound pretty easy.
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New Kemper Player Pedal
in The Gibson Lounge
Posted
Yes and yes.. Pro quality, very expensive (I think I saw it was like $650)... However, for a pro who uses it all the time, probably still well worth it.