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Red 333

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Posts posted by Red 333

  1. And the companion to that model, the John Lennon Revolution Casino. Perhaps that is what the OP is referring to.

    If it is a poly finished Inspired By, no change should occur to the finish. But you would expect a nitro finish (as on the JL Revolution and JL 1965) to sink in time, which indeed might make the top feel rougher.

    In any case, I would use Gibson Pump Polish on it. It won't make the top feel too much smoother, but it is an excellent cleaner and polish.

    Red 333

  2. 1 hour ago, Maestros said:

    Thanks for your input though!

    No problem. There are other guitars from that run of 34 on the web, and the features match, so looks like the genuine article. My concern was that it didn't match the features of the original edition of Legends, but as Dave F has shown, Gibson changed the specs. 

    Good luck and let us all know what route you go 

    Red 333

  3. 16 minutes ago, Dave F said:

    Gibson took a break from the more accurate Legends around 2010. In 2015, they started them back up with less accurate features and labels.

    Yeah, I deleted my post. I see that the 2016 version of 34 (of which the guitar in question is one) had all these features. This is what you alluded to the other day in another post! I guess that when I think of the Legend, I think of the original run of highly accurate, all-hide glue guitars.

    Accurate of a specific guitar is more accurate. Gibson made J-45s with any number of features of 1942, so maybe the guitar in question is accurate to one of those!

    I must say, I prefer the finish on the 2016 version to the one with aged toner of the originals. It's the only reservation I have with mine.

    Red 333

  4. 4 hours ago, jt said:

    I've long wondered about this. When I was in Bozeman touring the factory, I asked this precise question while standing in front of the CNC machine that was cutting necks. My tour guide responded, "We just can't do that." But the CNC could easily have been programmed to taper the headstock. Certainly, it wasn't a question of sufficient wood. The machine spits out necks with non-tapered headstocks. Tapering would simply have involved a bit of programming and the shaving off a bit of wood from the necks the machine was ejecting.

    Epiphone was doing it in 2004 on $499 Chinese-made Masterbilt guitars, which were certainly shaped by CNC, which is why I asked Ren that very thing. 

    Red 333

  5. 2 hours ago, zombywoof said:

    Regarding headstock shapes, while I could be dead wrong, I have always heard that as obtaining enough suitable 12/4 size mahogany to satisfy production needs started to get more difficult to come by, builders began going with smaller size stock.  Hence the addition of wings.

     

    The taper the OP is referring to is the depth of the headstock at the top (narrower) to the bottom (deeper), not the width. But yes, I've heard that as the reasoning for the addition of the wings on the sides of the headstock.

    I wholeheartedly agree with your observations about changes to design usually being about cost cutting (and the other things in your post). Leaving the headstock un-tapered saves time and time is money. 

    Red 333

  6. 3 hours ago, Buc McMaster said:

    Hmmm.  This makes one wonder what the taper on the headstock was for in the first place.  Mechanically this would make the string post length above the headstock longer at the far end which in turn could make the nut break angle smaller for these strings, assuming that these strings are not wound to the bottom of the post.  This makes any mechanical advantage inconsistent.  So the tapered headstock was simply a cosmetic thing?  Seems so.  Any other speculators on this particular attribute of vintage Gibsons?

    Personally I think it was an attractive thing and it would be nice to see it incorporated in modern builds.

    I don't know if anyone knows the origin or reasoning for the design, but the mechanical inconsistency, as you say, is certainty something that contributes to the character of those old instruments.

    Red 333

  7. I asked Ren Ferguson this once. It was probably around 2004. I was curious, because the newly released Epiphone Masterbilt guitars (which were original designs, and not a recreation of any Gibson model) DID have tapered headstocks. He said he wasn't aware that the old Gibsons were like that.

    Remember, in the very early days, they were building guitars in Bozeman often without having seen guitars from the '30s and '40s, with jigs and tooling they often made themselves. Once they got set up, they kept building that way.

    While Bozeman famously had access to Eldon Whitford's Advanced Jumbo to measure before the model was reissued in the early '90s, they may not thought to have look closely at the taper of the headstock because they didn't know to look. This was at a time when vintage guitar knowledge was not nearly as easily available as it is now with the internet. I think it was even before Whitfield wrote his book on Gibson acoustics. Since then, much more has been noted and is more well known.

    Old guitars Bozeman did have more access to locally were likely from the 50's and beyond, which is when the headstock changed to the non-tapered style.  These guitars were relatively newer and made in greater numbers than in early years, and had a better chance of making it to remote Montana. It's only later they began to get access to more old builds to examine and measure them and look to more closely make guitars with those exact specs. And that buyers looked for appreciated those details.  As Dave F said, the Legend series did have the tapered headstock, but that was probably the most exacting recreation, and one of the most expensive.

    Red 333

  8. The listing is not for a Keb Mo or even a Inspired By, but a J-45 Standard 12-fret. Whoever is using "Inspired By" may be using it loosely, as in, it's model that's like or takes some inspiration from  or is in the spirit of an actual Keb Mo.  Get some Keb Mo mojo without the premium of the Keb Mo name.

    In fact, the translation of the listing says, "This is the 12th fret specification model of Gibson Acoustic's super standard model. The 12th fret joint changes the position of the sound hole and bridge, producing a richer sound. Also, the specifications of the pegs and binding are different from the regular model, and there is no pickguard installed, so it looks like a "Keb' Mo' 3.0 12-Fret J-45" and has a more vintage spec look. It has a full body tone and excellent playability."

    Ikebe is a giant Japanese music store and legit business. They have a highly regarded Reverb shop, too. On their own website, use the  e English language button to inquire about international shipping and fees. You can also contact them through Reverb.

    Red 333

  9. Gibson began offering the adjustable bridge as an option in 1956.  It became standard in 1961. I believe that in the mid-sixties, Gibson began adding additional rings to the rosette. With that in mind, if all the features of the guitar in the video are original, it certainly dates to between 1956 and maybe as late as 1965 (1963 excepting, as it doesn't have a plastic bridge).

    ksdaddy mentioned that he thought the color of the back and sides to be unusual, and maybe that it indicated that the guitar in the video was much newer, and from the Bozeman-era. I've seen quite a number of J-50s with this finish from the mid '50s on. Gibson used it on the Epiphone Texan, too, which was introduced in 1958. The Texan is essentially a long-scale J-50.  That finish doesn't disqualify the guitar from being from the mid fifties to mid sixties. 

    Red 333

     

  10. 2 hours ago, Sgt. Pepper said:

    Neither are Martin's. That is why I suggested put a straight edge on your guitar and see. That hump is supposed to be there. 

    Yes. Martin has used a gentler radius throughout the years, between 40' and 52'. I think this depends on the model, but I'm not a Martin expert so I don't know for sure. I believe all steel string guitars have radiused tops.

    Red 333

  11. 1 hour ago, BluesKing777 said:

    For more information, watch the Gibson TV videos - The Process. They mention all Gibsons are not actually flat and show the body build! Even if the world is. NO, I said that, not Gibson.

    Now more FYI.....Bill Collings truly believed you got a different guitar sound with flat back and flat tops, so the first Waterloo WL-14 is built flat. There you go, no idea about the other Waterloo models.

     

    BluesKing777.

     

    I have read that some of the Kalamazoo branded guitars and other lower cost models that Gibson built for other brands (which the Waterloo models are inspired by) were not radiused and were truly flat, but I don't have enough experience with them personally to know for sure. 

    Red 333

  12. Gibson tops and backs are almost never flat. They are radiused, usually 28' for the tops and 18' (I think--some one fact check me) for the backs. This has been more or less true since the days of Orville hisself.  A straight edge should always rock when put on either the front or back. But sunken or bellied areas are concerning, of course 

    Red 333

  13. 2 hours ago, ehaataja said:

    Thank you, Red.  Good information, but one thing looks a bit contradictory. The first thing you say is "In 1982, the Spirit was produced at the Kalamazoo factory and badged as an Epiphone."  But further down you said that Epiphone production at the Kalamazoo facility was shut down in the early seventies.    I am a little confused as to how both statements could be true.

    At that time, Epiphones were imported from overseas. The Spirit was an attempt to build an Epiphone in the US again, and it sell it at the lower end of the Gibson price range.  Import Epiphone solid-bodies had $160  to  $350 (ish) list prices in the '70s, where the Spirit was $400-$650.  As ksdadyy said, they experimented with this (and still do) from time to time.

    Red 333

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  14. In 1982, he Spirit was produced at the Kalamazoo factory and badged as an Epiphone.  It had the "Made by Gibson" truss rod cover to tell consumers Epiphone was a Gibson product.

    Gibson bought Epiphone in the late fifties. Epiphone had been a major competitor for decades, especially of archtop guitars, and made a similar quality instrument that commanded similar prices.  After the purchase, Gibson used the Epiphone name to sell variations of their products to stores that were often inside the exclusive territory of Gibson dealers. Dealers had agreements that said only they could sell Gibson instruments within X number of miles. Gibson could add new dealers into that territory by offering them nearly identical instruments, only with Epiphone on the headstock. That tactic increased sales without technically violating their distribution agreements. These Epiphones were manufactured right alongside their Gibson counterparts in Kalamazoo, MI, and were offered at similar prices. Eventually, Epiphone would also offer some totally distinct designs, as well.

    In the early Seventies, Gibson shut down Epiphone production in Kalamazoo, and outsourced manufacturing to various offshore companies. Epiphone was repositioned as budget brand.

    1982's Spirit was an attempt to sell a higher-quality and higher-priced made in the USA Epiphone again. The "Made by  Gibson" truss rod was used since quality had decreased with the lower price point of the previous decade's products. That's also why the Epiphone logo says "Epiphone U.S.A.," to distinguish Spirit from the outsourced Epiphone badged products.

    The story goes that the Spirit was not a big seller, so Gibson decals were put over some completed guitars that already had  Epiphone on the headstock.  This explains why some guitars say Gibson on the headstock, and also have "Spirit Made By Gibson" truss rod covers. 

    Right around that time, Gibson was in the process of phasing out production in Kalamazoo and starting up production in Memphis. Spirit production was moved to there, and these guitars have Gibson on the headstock and just "Spirit" on the truss rod cover. 

    The headstock was changed to the Explorer style hockey stick shape around 1985, and the bridge was changed to a Khaler tremolo. 

    Production ceased around 1986.

    Red 333

     

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