Jump to content
Gibson Brands Forums

Golden

All Access
  • Posts

    860
  • Joined

  • Last visited

Posts posted by Golden

  1. Nah the board looks fine! I just don't understand why it has that dry feeling. Niw that I think of it, I did play an ES-335 that had the same dry feeling to it, and I also played an actual 60's reissue that was $5k that felt somewhat dry. My Epiphone never felt like that, and every fender I've played hasn't felt dry either. A friend of mine that got a 2017 Explorer said his felt dry too and he conditioned it with lemon oil..

     

    As mentioned above, Gerlitz Guitar Honey, or if you want it darker, Fret doctor, they usually need to be cleaned and conditioned, frets polished and it will be straight.

     

     

     

  2. The LP Tributes are nice electrics. Take someone else with you who is familar with them if you can. Good Luck, play a few if possible. The 490 or 498 is a difference in output alnico II or V. The boards I condition anyway but I wouldnt worry about the boards unless theres visable shrinkage or something as a result of lacking humidity/dryness. Play a few since the 490s are slightly different, I still use a set but my bridge is 8.4 and neck 7.7. Its just a set I liked that balances well. .

  3. 6.6 wow, you may not need a strap it probably floats. So did you name this sg "neck dive"? And photos of neck dive? I kinda like P-90s ....maybe they put your strap button slightly out of tolerance. I only seen "one" with neck dive back in 99-Standard with a stock ABR nice SG too. Didnt stop anyone from playing it. I guess once in a blue moon, one must slip through. :)

     

     

    That must be one of the rare light mahogany bodies under average at 3.6 lbs married to a slightly heavier neck. Rare animal in the kingdom. They usually sound great as you see most of these rare animals ALSO sound very good. :) Did you say you had a photo?

  4. The odds of you receiving a SG with neck dive seems rather slim. Just saying, course looking for very very lights SGs will increase the odds and probably more so with this model. The SG Jr is one of the models basically stripped down and light to begin with as the weights indicate. The Jr weight reduction comes not from special selected magical wood but reduction of hardware in the body area where it would add weight to the body end-reduce neck dive. They had one the other day at 5.5 lbs. The bodies are just a lot of the average 4lb bodies as are the necks.

     

     

    https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/SGJRH18VENH?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIsJPBst6E2QIVkbbACh2KnQZREAQYAyABEgKlxPD_BwE

    with

     

     

    The front strap button placement does make a difference in such a situation since its placed in back of the balance point IF the wood neck is unusually heavy and the body unusually light. Which is why I suggest this is much rarer than people assume. The mid point is the 12th fret the guitar 40-inches - half way 12th fret.

  5. Well I did say it was a 'sweeping statement', no? I thought it would get a rise out of a few peeps... [biggrin]

     

    I was hoping to get more data from the poll but that didn't happen to prove my 'sweeping statement'. I am basing my opinion on reading all the various gutar forums on the issue and the fact that most players who say that they don't have the issue mostly use a wide leather straps and therefore don't feel neck dive. Yes we all know that all guitar woods are different and there are tuners and whammy barfactors that add weight to various parts of an SG but fundamentally the SG model is an unbalanced guitar design created by Gibson back in 1961. The thin lightwight body, heavy neck weight, freatboard length all help to contribute to this.

     

    Are there expections? Of course, but I think that the percentage of SG's with neck dive are far higher than without.

     

    Anyway its just one persons opinion right?

     

    The average weight of a raw SG Standard body is 4.03 lbs, which is in the normal range for a Gibson SG-style guitar. Average weight of the neck is .98 lbs according to Gibson and thats the "routed" SG. MAYBE the small percent is sort of like a squeaky wheel. Seems to be, just saying....but you like the SG light did you say? LOL, hey mine has Grovers and doesnt do that. Try a black chrome pick-guard they are pretty heavy, wont even know the difference.

    • Upvote 1
  6. I'm going to make a sweeping statement and say that I think that around 90% of all SG's suffer from neck dive.

     

     

    LOL, based on what, the poll you took? You would have to assume which it may exist but I haven't seen the evidence, that 90% of the necks on an SG weigh more than the body on the same 90%? It may be an interesting point do you know? Well, then think about those who seek light weight SGs as part of their desired guitar of good wood? So for sure theres a weight balance tipping point and so....the weight you buy should then be considered? I'm just saying this may be part of the equation I dont know but many prefer light weight mahogany.

     

     

    Anyway since you fell in love now with regrets, what you could do is have made a metal/steel/aluminum pg and change the plastic knobs to brass add a weighted strap button on the bottom. That might have the neck hitting the door frames when you let go though.

  7. the neck vibrations seem weaker and later to arrive

     

     

    I have to check it out, I've checked vibration on both ends but not quite this way, interesting. In this sense Im not sure what happens but it seems the vibration creates a mechanical resonance through the wood, and this then becomes restricted various ways, wood itself for example with dry/wet issues aging etc.

     

     

    I think with the semi hollows this becomes more pronounced which is hard to qualify when we add laminated in this equation .

  8. Heres the issue.. we all know the wood matters and from many many examples, as does construction and tolerance but what we cant do is reassemble an already perfectly built guitar with a slightly different neck tolerance to the exact point that the sound variance becomes discernable BUT for sure they know the failure point which is why a specific tolerance is allowed in production of .1 degree to begin with.

     

    So imho you have preference CS, then acceptability which really may be similiar in overall build minus the neck joint, then further you have failure. There may be no discernable tone difference within the 1 degree. Just an appearence -visual issue. You also cant correct it by changing a proven method of build and especially since the issue is not on all the LPs etc....its not the rule but an exception to the rule. However further altering the angle and string with obstruction...off the top of my head....I cant think of a single good reason why that wouldnt make a difference.

     

    Anyway imo we made further progress with this than usual... But I agree with everyone here you should really look and if need be take someone with you who like all these guys...know these guitars. The right neck angle shows in all aspects. Not just the stop tail but the bridge height the pick-up height and thus the overall symmetry of a very successful design/string action/vibration.

     

    So in this sense its really hard to blame Gibson. I think its the nature of the design unless that tolerance is for example cut in half to a less observable point. But for example on the SG, I look for this and a straight neck decent fret work etc ....

    post-60084-033691000 1517404189_thumb.jpg

  9. They are not identical Pip, even if they were they would sound different. Obviously two guitars with all the same parts can sound different with variations in the grain, build tolerance, slightly different values of caps, hardware adjustments, aged wood, string tension etc. But the point remains, there are differences, and that difference can be evaluated. Imo if you strip both electrics and swap all the hardware, electronics and so forth making one set, they will still sound different though perhaps closer. So whats left in the sequence which can make a difference? If we use the same everything swapped out on two of the same model guitars then all thats left is wood and tolerance and both make a difference being my on-going point and nor does it change because its logical. Whats not logical is tolerance makes no difference but here at this junction only the wood does?

     

    Just saying and in fact from ricks level of priority where the wood matters very little on an electric then I guess the tolerance must be the difference mattering the most? So apparently he implicity agrees which is what Im reading in to this. But then comes this.........

     

    Compared to everything else regarding guitar set-up and construction, tail stop adjustment has a very minimal impact on tone or play-ability.

     

     

    Translates to "tolerance" which IS construction and has a minimal impact but the wood even less? Just to put that statement in perspective of relevance. Then there is nothing left to equivicate and they still sound different. In ricks story of relevance theres nothing left to compare which will make a difference yet the difference still exists.

     

    So again and sorry, Im not comprehending what hes saying nor can I imagine anyone else is at this point.

  10. Golden: I'm clearly having problems following your thought processes; I think we are both losing each other!

     

    You are trying way to hard to read things into what I wrote that are not there. Again, I have never stated that the material that the guitar is made of does not have any impact on tone or sustain; I did state that the relationship between transmission of sound to the guitar through the bridge is far more relevant with a conventional guitar than with a solid bodied electric. Again, my statement that tone and sustain differences between different guitars would be more relevant was specific to playing clean tones, i.e. undistorted and not heavily processed; I also acknowledged that there is a difference between my ES-335 and my LP despite almost everything being the same except for the bodies. I think we are on the same side!

     

    Funny enough, I have a little Hohner G3T; its got no head, almost no body, no string excess at the Steinberger whammy end, two single coils and one humbucker. It plays and sounds great with good sustain and despite it's 010-046 strings, (all my other electrics run 008-038) it's slinky enough for me.

     

    Let's go back to basics; the thread started with a simple query regarding tail stop adjustment. Compared to everything else regarding guitar set-up and construction, tail stop adjustment has a very minimal impact on tone or play-ability. Ability to play trumps all.

     

     

     

     

    Well "everyone above"must have tried "really hard:" to read too much into the quote below in relation to this ........."I have never stated that the material that the guitar is made of does not have any impact on tone or sustain" which appears contradictory to below. And these ARE the basics which seem well not basic in your quotes? Its not people are reading TOO MUCH into what your saying they are attempting to comprehend what your saying, so wood matters, and in either a electric or acoustic and both rely significantly on string vibration through the body. So why are electrics not the same minus the sound chamber/electronics in relevance to wood? The fact is they are so why the distinction to point out what? The degree of what matters in importance in your opinion? And in this sequence the wood matters not at all or least of all and the tail stop adjustment has a very minimal impact. But all materials matter as do adjustments. Seems to me you would like to talk in both relevance and specifics at the same time. But when pressed on specifics relevance is the path. "I have never stated that the material that the guitar is made of does not have any impact on tone or sustain"

     

     

     

    Just my simple take on this; an acoustic or electric acoustic guitar relies very significantly on the transmission of the strings' vibrations through the bridge and into the body of the guitar and the body amplifying the sound through the sound hole. Electric guitars are not the same

     

    Pickup selection has a much bigger impact on electric guitar tone than any of the little mechanical details regarding bridge and tail pieces. String gauges also have a huge impact on playability and in many cases, tone. Amps have a huge imact

     

  11. My main point is that if we all played clean all the time, no effects, then the but we don't. Most of us play with a range of tones and what we consider "good" is very subjective. For me, play-ability is the most important factor

     

    You sure? Because I could point out a few inconsistencies in the "tone and sustain differences between different guitars would be more relevant" with your prior thinking where the wood nor material mattered only the pick-ups/electronics, in such a case I'm not quite sure how you arrive at more relevant? If we used the same nut and compensated bridge and lock it at the nut remove the headstyock, add whatever picks-ups you like....THAT would sound "similar" in consideration of tolerance and similiar adjustments as small as poles on the pickups, etc, until you anchor it with another material. If that wasnt the case then where is the relevant difference more distinguished? So you have the same bridge nut and pick-ups. Now what will make those three factors sound different? Surely something since nothing leaves what difference?

     

     

    Your losing me with your thinking.

  12. Happens from time to time. Mine doesnt have the issue, anyway though I use a wide leather strap with strap locks. Nevertheless on that SG model I seen the weights on them, some are around 5-1/2 lbs so perhaps a wide leather strap will work which I would try first anyway. To add to the issue it doesnt have Grovers which add about 7-8 ounces nor a very large control cavity to add weight.

  13. If you believe that then Mahogany isnt required nor a Maple cap, nor for that matter wood. Maybe we can just recycle all the plastic in the ocean instead of wasting the wood because...it makes no difference. In fact you need nothing but a nut to saddle string path attached to plastic..then you drop your favorite pick-ups in and PRESTO.....Les Paul Tone. In fact if thats the case why play a Gibson LP because of the pick-ups or for what reason other than appearence which again is consistent with my point about... appearence?

     

    Thanks

  14. . The tone-wood issue is a whole other discussion that has been repeated many times on many forums. From my very simple perspective, as soon as a guitar is cranked up through a bunch of effects and an amp, the tone-wood issue is pretty much a mute point. People will claim that sustain is one of the bigger components related to tone woods but I would argue that a well set-up guitar with fresh strings has a bigger impact on sustain (and tone) than the material that the guitar is made of. "Tone" is extremely subjective.

     

    A good discussion.

     

     

    Well heres the point I'm making which btw is in relation to string vibration, for the wood to be in play as I'm suggesting this indicates the vibration is active outside the two points of the saddle and nut and then is affecting or coloring the sound. Its not the wood picks up the vibration of a alternative source, the vibration is through the wood and the electronics "secondary" to the sound. Nevertheless what your talking about 'effects" and in relation to secondary "affects" for sure this becomes permeated with the effects and eq as you mention, the relationship of the wood doesnt change or disappear -its just not as discernable, but the wood is affecting the end result coming out the speaker be it, its heard of not.

     

    So the mention of wood is also in relation to the string vibration which makes the point of some strict thinking of nut to saddle only... simply "untrue" Even if you lock both points, they still vibrate though the material through the posts and through the wood, neck, headstock etc. imho :) Just saying, if something doesnt stand to reason just let me know might be me lol. I didnt say I was right I just have a varying point of view. lol anyway thus the mention of wood- not to distract but on the contrary to show an observable point in relation to the topic.

  15. I think that for a Les Paul, the length of string between saddle and tailpiece is so short that the extra slinkiness is most likely negligible,

     

     

    We are talking vibration and tension not frequency or tone which you admit theres string vibration-tension variation and its factual that obstructing the path affects the vibration and tension- we aere only talking to what degree not IF. In fact you introduced the term "slinkiness" in relation? And you also associate that with noise/tone. This being most likely negligible depends on tension and length being altered outside the nut and saddle. The vibration is more pronounced as you see with trap tails case in point.

  16. I was really more concerned with my shiny gold plated bridges being worn by the wound strings rubbing on the back edge than any impact on playability.

     

    You really have to take a look at Page's double neck; the tailpiece locations are extreme.

     

    However if your proposition is correct then its also correct that hitting the rear of the bridge affects the vibration/slinkiness/downward pressure=tension- thus tone and the more pressure on the rear of the bridge the more the effect.

     

    '

    Stands to reason and thats aside from the gold wear and rear pressure on the ABR pr whatever and string breakage. Just for clarity here...but thanks, the observation and agreement is progress on the point is all.

     

    Further I dont see any difference with a slight rearward movement of the ST since imo Gibson focused on the break angle more than the location because of the string jump with bends-slinkiness imho was too much at the time/trap tails. So theres a trade off here also with as suggested with "slinkiness". Thanks btw the break angle can indeed be more shallow, however as noted theres a point where the shallow angle fails which many builders.designers go into great detail about for example Terry McInturff has done extensive research for Hamer on the headstock breakangle with trems and angle failure.

     

    So let me ask, you agree with the statement that the frequency at which a string vibrates depends on the length between nodes/saddle/nut, the tension from the angle, and the linear density of the string which as you state the 8s make a difference? And btw then the body absorbs the vibration of the stringed instrument thus theres a secondary wood vibration which obviously also affects the tone also thus tone wood selection solid body-hollow body.

  17. It's fun to see this topic again. The last time I participated, on another forum, there was agreement that although string tension between the nut and saddle is what determines the note, extra string length between nut and tuner or saddle and tailpiece should have an impact on "slinkiness". I have never thought about proving this until I was stringing up my ES-335 and ES-Artist just a day apart. The position of the Artist tailpiece is considerably further away from the bridge than the ES-335's which is pretty much the same set-up as an LP.

     

    On the 335 I plucked the top E string between saddle and tailpiece (tail piece is lifted enough so that the string does not touch the backside of the bridge and the strings are threaded through normally, not wrapped-over) and bent hard on the string; I could not hear a change in the very high pitch of the tiny length of E string. I then did the same at the other end, between nut and tuner and I could hear the pitch change as I bent the string. I repeated this on the Artist and could hear the pitch change at both ends so I surmise that extra string length after the nut or saddle does have an impact on slinkiness; the string is clearly moving on both sides of the nut and saddle when I bend. I should note that I use 008-038 strings on most of my electrics so honestly, I don't feel any difference in slinkiness, even on my EBMM Majesty that has a longer scale length that the Gibsons. Also, clearly, if a guitar has a locking nut then there's no extra slinky component from the head end.

     

    If there is a top-wrapper out there, please repeat this test at the tiny, saddle to tailpiece end and report back.

     

    Take a peek at Page's EDS 12/6; the tail pieces are a very long way from the bridges; like having two little harps added to the guitar. Some think that this odd variation of the EDS 12/6 was a deliberate Page specification to add slinkiness to both necks.

     

     

    Yeah I seen it, Hamer Newport and others same thing with a slightly further set back tail. This is where I suppose I should ask ...is there any particular reason its exactly where its located?

×
×
  • Create New...