Guitar stars and guitarists.

[LarryUK]

I was watching a video this morning about Jacky Vincent.

Sample.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydG0cd87twU

In the comments some one said that it was a pity his music didn't live up to his playing. I'd never heard of him before and although a brilliant player, I'm not struck on his music. But It got me thinking.

There are players out there that are geniuses on the neck, but that's all. They don't or perhaps can't write good music. I'll stick my neck out here and say that I do think that you can over learn an instrument to the point that writing a simple riff or melody is beyond you. I'll give an example of Eric Clapton/Joe Walsh/The Edge/Keith Richards etc. None of them are outstanding players in the shredding sense, but have written great tunes.

I really do believe that the more technical you get, the more boring and narcissistic your music gets. I do think that the greatest songs have been written by people that perhaps can't read music and don't really know many scales.

[btoth76]

... I'll give an example of Eric Clapton/Joe Walsh/The Edge/Keith Richards etc. None of them are outstanding players in the shredding sense, but have written great tunes.

I really do believe that the more technical you get, the more boring and narcissistic your music gets...

 

 

Hello!

 

I agree with that. You can be technically advanced, but if You have nothing to say, no ability or taste to compose music, then it's just self-entertainment. L'art pour l'art. Or acrobacy.

 

BUT don't get me wrong! I am not going to put down people here - hence, I will not mention any artists. It's actually my personal problem. I feel that I have no real problems with my playing - when it comes to technics (at least it satisfies me as it is). I'd be rather happy if was able to create entertaining pieces of music. That's why I started to listen to musical genres I wasn't aware of before. That widens the horizon of a musician. And the more bits and pieces You learn - by the law of large numbers - You have more chances to come up with the right combination of things, that are nice. :)

 

Cheers... Bence

[pippy]

I tend to agree.

 

John Lee Hooker, for example, was hardly a virtuoso but in his own way utterly peerless.

 

The list of great players is IMHO 100x longer than the list of technically brilliant players and there would be few, perhaps, from the latter who would also have a place in the former. Jeff Beck springs to mind. But relatively few others could genuinely claim this distinction.

But that's just my preference. I can understand why others would rate technical virtuosity higher than such 'Sentimental Tosh' as, perhaps, 'Shine On You Crazy Diamond'.

 

"...some one said that it was a pity his music didn't live up to his playing."

Very interesting comment. I had no idea who Brad Paisley was before I watched the film 'Cars II' with my daughter. The playing on the closing tracks really impressed me and I googled his name.

The first thing which came up was the Dr. Z demo (which I have since posted here) and his playing - no more than noodling, really - is truly fantastic.

I then listened to more of his actual music and was, well, slightly disappointed...

 

But we are in danger of getting back into the old "Is it possible to play fast with 'feeling'?" argument here.

 

P.

[btoth76]

 

...

 

But we are in danger of getting back into the old "Is it possible to play fast with 'feeling'?" argument here.

 

P.

 

Well let's not. We would have to face an Armageddon at the Forums again!

 

Cheers... Bence

[LarryUK]

I wasn't on about shredding. I just mean, the more you learn the less inventive you become. eg. Macca. When the Beatles started they wrote great stuff. As time has gone by and he's without doubt a better musician. He can't write decent stuff at all.

Also. I do wonder if your background helps the creative mind. If you're born rich and given everything. You really can't have the same mind as someone that has had to fight to get there. I read this week how the music business is becoming 'posh'. I'm inclined to agree with that.

[Kennis]

guitar technique is like language. just because you can recite the dictionary by heart doesn't make you Shakespeare (or poet of your choice).

[L5Larry]

I just mean, the more you learn the less inventive you become.

Oh come on now. Do you really believe this?

 

 

eg. Macca. When the Beatles started they wrote great stuff. As time has gone by and he's without doubt a better musician. He can't write decent stuff at all.

Just how many billion selling songs is one supposed to have rolling around in their brain.

[krock]

Just how many billion selling songs is one supposed to have rolling around in their brain.

 

I'm still looking to write my first half decent one

[RaysEpiphone]

I didn't see any song writing in the OP's video, it was just to guys "cutting head's". There is a huge deference between being a good player (to what-ever level) and being a good song writer. Some types of music have diverse style's of playing and word's etc.

[FirstMeasure]

It makes some kind of sense. A budding guitarist will focus on the things that excite him about the instrument.

 

Take Eddie Van Halen, for example. Good songs and technical excellence. If a budding guitarist is turned on by his blazing leads he'll spend much of his time trying to nail the solo's, which takes a lot of technical prowess. If he's turned on by his cool riffs and interesting arrangements that students study of EVH will end up learning more about song crafting than scales and technique.

 

Then there's the unavoidable fact that songwriting is an art. To use a painting analogy, lot's of people can paint a picture of a mountain lake, but only a handful will paint one that makes you think you can smell pine trees.

[MissouriPicker]

I agree. You've got to have something to say........Bob Dylan, Neil Diamond, Johnny Cash, Mary Chapin Carpenter, Emmylou Harris, Dave Matthews, and many, many. All adequate guitar players and capable of doing well what they did do, but their main strength is that they have something to say and a stage presence that compels people to listen. The two guys in the video are certainly better than I am, but I'd go nuts listening to more than a minute or two of that. There are countless "best in the world" guitar players in the rock and country bands of the world. They're typically band members, not band leaders.

[GibSinCity]

The guitar is a tool.

Just because you're an "expert" a that particular tool, on how it works, or a particular aspect of that tool, no matter how proficient, it doesn't mean you have all the skills necessary to build something based on that alone.

It takes an idea, planning, and the knowledge to know what tool/tools, skills, and techniques to use.

And to what extent they are used.

[Blueblooded]

I just watched the sample video and that changed my thoughts about going to Guitar Center on a Saturday afternoon. It sounded like all the pimple-faced teens there when they line up in front of the Line 6 and Marshall amps, Ibanez in hand, and trying to be the fastest there. Yuk!

 

I've spent time listening to some of the "shred" players to try to see what the attraction is. I don't really listen of follow any of it anymore. It just isn't "musical" to me. I think the main purpose of many that do follow is they are impressed with the speed and try to emulate it. When many of these guys try to slow down and make something musical on the fretboard, they fail terribly.

[LarryUK]

I just watched the sample video and that changed my thoughts about going to Guitar Center on a Saturday afternoon. It sounded like all the pimple-faced teens there when they line up in front of the Line 6 and Marshall amps, Ibanez in hand, and trying to be the fastest there. Yuk!

 

I've spent time listening to some of the "shred" players to try to see what the attraction is. I don't really listen of follow any of it anymore. It just isn't "musical" to me. I think the main purpose of many that do follow is they are impressed with the speed and try to emulate it. When many of these guys try to slow down and make something musical on the fretboard, they fail terribly.

I've seen them too. But they can't play in a band or write tunes. I was gigging before I knew what a scale was. I was self taught and gigged at a wedding when I was 14. You got to be able to gel with other musicians.

[daveinspain]

I agree... The old saying "less is more" applies here, when you are first starting out and are limited to your ability as a player your songs will be simpler and easier for a non musicians to understand and like... The more you know the less simplistic your music becomes. Technically great musicians have less of an audience... Thats not a bad thing though. There are always exceptions but in those exceptions there is always some other appealing factor that combined with intricate musicianship t o break through or combine to reach the masses and result in some wonderful music. Take the group YES... Each of them in their own right are monster musicians and their compositions very complex but their combination of harmonies, showmanship, theatrics, visuals made them very successful. Same with Led Zeppelin, although they started out as great musicians playing simple blues rock orientated music and blossomed into some very experimental and intricate compositions... Look at the Beatles as well, they went from I wanna hold your hand to the White ablum. The difference there is they carried a huge fan base with them and were able to educate their fans along the way.

[Old Rocker 59]

I'm of the adage that less is more. That's something that some of these young kids need to learn today when it comes to playing the guitar.

[jaxson50]

Good stuff, thanks for posting Lashurst

[dbreslauer]

Then there's the unavoidable fact that songwriting is an art. To use a painting analogy, lot's of people can paint a picture of a mountain lake, but only a handful will paint one that makes you think you can smell pine trees.

 

agreed!

 

I also think that previous successes are a factor: we're more apt to accept the 'less than brilliant' output from artists that have previously been so (but only to a point, of course.)

[rocketman]

Here's one that impresses me. The solo is very simple. But the "holding" notes that lead one verse to another are perfectly placed. The ending is just brilliant. Alex at his best.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouKoUKaTSq4

[Sgt.]

I was watching a video this morning about Jacky Vincent.

Sample.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydG0cd87twU

In the comments some one said that it was a pity his music didn't live up to his playing. I'd never heard of him before and although a brilliant player, I'm not struck on his music. But It got me thinking.

There are players out there that are geniuses on the neck, but that's all. They don't or perhaps can't write good music. I'll stick my neck out here and say that I do think that you can over learn an instrument to the point that writing a simple riff or melody is beyond you. I'll give an example of Eric Clapton/Joe Walsh/The Edge/Keith Richards etc. None of them are outstanding players in the shredding sense, but have written great tunes.

I really do believe that the more technical you get, the more boring and narcissistic your music gets. I do think that the greatest songs have been written by people that perhaps can't read music and don't really know many scales.

 

K I S S (keep it simple stupid)! The simplest answer is the best answer. a song can be overwritten with too complicated chord progression and frustrated to perfection.

[Sgt.]

The guitar is a tool.

Just because you're an "expert" a that particular tool, on how it works, or a particular aspect of that tool, no matter how proficient, it doesn't mean you have all the skills necessary to build something based on that alone.

It takes an idea, planning, and the knowledge to know what tool/tools, skills, and techniques to use.

And to what extent they are used.

 

I like the line 'the guitar is a tool' yes, sometimes the owner can be a tool too but that's beside the point. it's not a toy. i went through phases from beginning to learn the sound of the electric guitar, didn't care about tuning and couldn't afford good gear, just wanted to make noise. more interested in playing my fav. led zepp tune than sticking to lessons. advanced to student level guitar, learned how to set truss rod, action and intonation on that guitar and refreshed my basic theory in order to be able to play with others in a band and actually understand what's going on. to the serious guitarist the guitar is a tool, you should learn to tech your own guitar and by the time you realise it's a tool, appreciate a nice instrument enough to polish it like it's permanent furniture.

To the kid who wants to make noise and is in love with the sound the electric guitar makes through an amplifier (screeeech), it's a toy to be tossed into the back of the closet when it gets boring. Serious? yup, me is. I get a laugh with some younger band mates (that could use a few lessons) want to take over the guitar reigns and when asked to play middle c, return a blank look ... what's a c major scale, I know blues, i play by feel ... yeah. it bugs me, as long as i'm on a rant, young kids that come out swinging, writin' songs and playin' gigs and 'we're professionals'. how much experience (actual rejection) has an eighteen year old kid that just evolved out his mom's basement have? what's he got to write about, his last hair cut? I am sooo sick of every jack, jill, and harry with a soul patch and an acoustic guitar plugging into a pa and thinking the audience wants to hear their melancholy thoughts. blahhh :( songs that don't make sense, truthfully and literally are not good songs. who believes that kid who's singing about the woman he's lost and the men he's killed? haw haw stick to what you know.

seriously there's a lot of 'retardedness' in the music industry, what passes for good or popular, the 'oh i'm better than that guy ...' how can you rate yourself against someone else unless you're actually comparing their version of the same song? People that hire 'musicians' often don't have a clue what passes for authentic.