Difference in Les Pauls

[brc]

I have been a long time Gibson player<first electric guitar was a 1958 Les Paul I got new in 1959> damn, sure wish I owned it now!, but all things aside, what are the main differences between the less expensive Les Paul, compared to the high end Les Paul. Although I am a huge Gibson fan, most of my guitars are Fender,Guild, then Gibson, Martin,then my collectible guitars.

 

Is it the electronics making the main difference?

I am talking about off the shelve <or rack> that any one could purchase and compare the difference between the less costly compared to the high dollar Les Paul.

 

thanks for your help

[Riffster]

It is not the electronics, while the USA line and the custom shop line may have different electronics they are all in the same ballpark.

 

The main difference is the wood selection and the fit and finish. Too long to explain but that is the difference in synthesis.

[Hall]

And like night and day.

 

Steve

[Rabs]

Basically theres three levels..

 

Studios, Tributes.. Bare bones Gibsons with no bling like binding or flamed tops.... The cheapest Les Pauls

Classics, Traditionals and Standards... Guitars with binding and with nods to certain eras (standards are more expensive for some reason?)

Customs, Historic replicas and Signature models.. the most expensive with all the bling, specialy selected woods and sometimes aged

 

There are a few inbetween guitars like the Midtown and some others that are in between a Studio and Traditional/Classic pricing.. But those I think are the main three.. Electronics much the same in all.... Pickups and necks vary on all models.

 

[brc]

Thanks for the video. That helped a lot.

Exactly what I was looking for

appreciate the responses

[charlie brown]

The short answer is, play them...and see for oneself. You may (or, may not) be surprised?!

 

I'm reminded of the old saying: "If you have to ask, you can't afford it!"

 

Seriously, though, I've never really understood the whole "Historic" thing, as anything but a

marketing ploy. The real "Vintage" guitars are "historic." Nothing, made nowadays, with

all the automation, and yes, a fair amount of handwork as well, is anything more than a

Replica. So, Why Gibson USA vs. "Custom Shop/Historic?!"

 

Marketing, Clever Psychology=More Profit. There was never a "Custom Shop," at Kalamazoo.

You could special order, damn near anything you wanted, and pay a surcharge, or "up" charge,

for that..as well as expect to wait a considerable length of time, for your special order

guitar. But, the basic overall quality, including the wood, and workmanship, was the same!

Nowadays, we're still expected to pay several Grand, for the "medium tier" (Gibson USA) variety,

that's deemed to be "less"(somehow), than the "Custom Shop" items, at their substantial cost

increase?

 

It's one of my main complaints, about Gibson, and other guitar manufacturers, today. Why

have so many different "levels" of quality? Why not make the "Custom Shop" ONLY, for those

"special orders," one of a kind, etc., instead of relegating "the good stuff" (wood, etc.)

only to Custom Shop guitars. The "Custom" should be the specific special order, or one of

a kind spec's, and special "bling," etc. The actual overall quality, of workmanship and

materials, should NOT be any different...IMHO. Charge the "Custom Shop" prices, for actual

Custom made guitars, not for what ALL Gibson's SHOULD have, spec wise, and be made like.

 

Now...It may already be so, really? "Custom Shop" may be just a "Marketing" tool??? I've seen,

and played CS guitars, that I would never buy, but NOT because of their price point, but due to their

less than stellar playability, and sound. Likewise, I've played Gibson USA models, with the same

characteristics. SO, I (for one) am NOT convinced, there's all that much difference, aside from

VOS finishes, some CS versions having "Long neck tenons," and items like that. IF long neck tenons,

truly make so much difference in tone and sustain, they should go back to that, on ALL Gibson's.

The VOS finish, and/or relicing, could be called "Custom Shop," as it is a special treatment.

 

Anyway...end of my "broken record" mini-rant. LOL

 

CB

[Rabs]

 

Now...It may already be so, really? "Custom Shop" may be just a "Marketing" tool??? I've seen,

and played CS guitars, that I would never buy, but NOT because of their price point, but due to their

less than stellar playability, and sound. Likewise, I've played Gibson USA models, with the same

characteristics. SO, I (for one) am NOT convinced, there's all that much difference, aside from

VOS finishes, some CS versions having "Long neck tenons," and items like that. IF long neck tenons,

truly make so much difference in tone and sustain, they should go back to that, on ALL Gibson's.

The VOS finish, and/or relicing, could be called "Custom Shop," as it is a special treatment.

 

Anyway...end of my "broken record" mini-rant. LOL

 

CB

Dont forget the new authentic Hide Glue (that will melt if it gets hot enough :P :))

[charlie brown]

Dont forget the new authentic Hide Glue (that will melt if it gets hot enough :P :))

 

LOL Man, if it gets that hot (trunk of car, in 110+ degree heat, ect.),

the owner would have to be a moron, for allowing that!

 

My most recent purchase, some of you have seen, already...was my SG "Original!"

I tried it, right along side (back and forth) a VOS CS "Historic" SG w/Maestro.

There was NO comparison. The SG "Original" was far superior, in looks (correct

color, etc.), the beveling was the same, as the CS version, even a bit better,

in all honesty, and it was "Alive" resonance wise, unplugged. The CS version

was a dead "brick," by comparison, even though they were essentially the same weight.

 

So, even though I could have purchased the VOS, I went with the SG "Original,"

instead, as it was, by all practical criteria, the better guitar, overall! Even

my 2012 '61 Satin finish SG was a lot more open/alive/resonant, than that particular

VOS SG "Historic."

 

I'm not saying ALL VOS or CS guitars are like that...but, they do exist, just

as Gibson USA guitars can be outstanding, and/or complete duds, too.

"Case by Case" basis...always, IMHO.

 

CB

[brc]

Dont think I would ever buy a re-issue any thing, Gibson,Fender, Guild,Martin.

If you want the real deal, then buy the original.

Not that they are not nice, good quality guitars, but re-issue just does not do it for me.

I am not putting them down, but they just dont do any thing for me.

I know if you find a nice original vintage, its going to cost you some bucks.

But they are just that. Original, vintage.

All my guitars are original,<meaning no re-issue> and it has taken me over 50+ years to collect them

[krock]

The short answer is, play them...and see for oneself. You may (or, may not) be surprised?!

 

I'm reminded of the old saying: "If you have to ask, you can't afford it!"

 

Seriously, though, I've never really understood the whole "Historic" thing, as anything but a

marketing ploy. The real "Vintage" guitars are "historic." Nothing, made nowadays, with

all the automation, and yes, a fair amount of handwork as well, is anything more than a

Replica. So, Why Gibson USA vs. "Custom Shop/Historic?!"

 

Marketing, Clever Psychology=More Profit. There was never a "Custom Shop," at Kalamazoo.

You could special order, damn near anything you wanted, and pay a surcharge, or "up" charge,

for that..as well as expect to wait a considerable length of time, for your special order

guitar. But, the basic overall quality, including the wood, and workmanship, was the same!

Nowadays, we're still expected to pay several Grand, for the "medium tier" (Gibson USA) variety,

that's deemed to be "less"(somehow), than the "Custom Shop" items, at their substantial cost

increase?

 

It's one of my main complaints, about Gibson, and other guitar manufacturers, today. Why

have so many different "levels" of quality? Why not make the "Custom Shop" ONLY, for those

"special orders," one of a kind, etc., instead of relegating "the good stuff" (wood, etc.)

only to Custom Shop guitars. The "Custom" should be the specific special order, or one of

a kind spec's, and special "bling," etc. The actual overall quality, of workmanship and

materials, should NOT be any different...IMHO. Charge the "Custom Shop" prices, for actual

Custom made guitars, not for what ALL Gibson's SHOULD have, spec wise, and be made like.

 

Now...It may already be so, really? "Custom Shop" may be just a "Marketing" tool??? I've seen,

and played CS guitars, that I would never buy, but NOT because of their price point, but due to their

less than stellar playability, and sound. Likewise, I've played Gibson USA models, with the same

characteristics. SO, I (for one) am NOT convinced, there's all that much difference, aside from

VOS finishes, some CS versions having "Long neck tenons," and items like that. IF long neck tenons,

truly make so much difference in tone and sustain, they should go back to that, on ALL Gibson's.

The VOS finish, and/or relicing, could be called "Custom Shop," as it is a special treatment.

 

Anyway...end of my "broken record" mini-rant. LOL

 

CB

 

Thats always been my view point on this subject also

[Sgt.]

The short answer is, play them...and see for oneself. You may (or, may not) be surprised?!

 

I'm reminded of the old saying: "If you have to ask, you can't afford it!"

 

Seriously, though, I've never really understood the whole "Historic" thing, as anything but a

marketing ploy. The real "Vintage" guitars are "historic." Nothing, made nowadays, with

all the automation, and yes, a fair amount of handwork as well, is anything more than a

Replica. So, Why Gibson USA vs. "Custom Shop/Historic?!"

 

Marketing, Clever Psychology=More Profit. There was never a "Custom Shop," at Kalamazoo.

You could special order, damn near anything you wanted, and pay a surcharge, or "up" charge,

for that..as well as expect to wait a considerable length of time, for your special order

guitar. But, the basic overall quality, including the wood, and workmanship, was the same!

Nowadays, we're still expected to pay several Grand, for the "medium tier" (Gibson USA) variety,

that's deemed to be "less"(somehow), than the "Custom Shop" items, at their substantial cost

increase?

 

It's one of my main complaints, about Gibson, and other guitar manufacturers, today. Why

have so many different "levels" of quality? Why not make the "Custom Shop" ONLY, for those

"special orders," one of a kind, etc., instead of relegating "the good stuff" (wood, etc.)

only to Custom Shop guitars. The "Custom" should be the specific special order, or one of

a kind spec's, and special "bling," etc. The actual overall quality, of workmanship and

materials, should NOT be any different...IMHO. Charge the "Custom Shop" prices, for actual

Custom made guitars, not for what ALL Gibson's SHOULD have, spec wise, and be made like.

 

Now...It may already be so, really? "Custom Shop" may be just a "Marketing" tool??? I've seen,

and played CS guitars, that I would never buy, but NOT because of their price point, but due to their

less than stellar playability, and sound. Likewise, I've played Gibson USA models, with the same

characteristics. SO, I (for one) am NOT convinced, there's all that much difference, aside from

VOS finishes, some CS versions having "Long neck tenons," and items like that. IF long neck tenons,

truly make so much difference in tone and sustain, they should go back to that, on ALL Gibson's.

The VOS finish, and/or relicing, could be called "Custom Shop," as it is a special treatment.

 

Anyway...end of my "broken record" mini-rant. LOL

 

CB

 

Quality control's gonna be less on cheaper models. go figure. oh and now you mention it there's differences in 'weight relieved' and 'chambered' . funny i don't know why that would save money because all of the wood removed is wasted, but it makes the les paul less of a backbreaker.

[Guest Farnsbarns]

It's because they can use the very heavy mahogany that would otherwise be unusable. They can buy that for less, the machining is done by CNC too.

[pippy]

With all due respect, brc, I find your stance re: re-issues to be a trifle absurd.

 

To have already decided not to buy anything which is a re-issue - just because it is a re-issue - doesn't make any sense. Why not?

Almost all LPs made since 1968 have been built largely along the lines of the original '52 - '60 range of instruments. Simply put, the C.S. examples are closer, in the 'fine detail' department, to the originals than others. That's all.

 

As CB says; within the ranks of both Gibson USA and Gibson C.S. there are some Great Guitars and also some Duds. Why arbitrarily choose to ignore all those instruments made by the C.S.?

 

By doing so you are merely narrowing down the number and choice of instruments available to you.

Furthermore many people here have found the 'Good' C.S. guitars to be, generally speaking, slightly finer instruments than their 'Good' USA counterparts.

On this point, however, I will not even begin to try to convince you.

 

...If you want the real deal, then buy the original....I know if you find a nice original vintage, its going to cost you some bucks...

Hmm............

 

I don't know about your own financial situation, of course, but speaking for myself buying an original late '50s example is, sadly, not an option. Nor ever will be.

Currently, an original '58 - '60 Les Paul will have a purchase purchase price somewhere 'North' of $120,000. Too Rich For My Blood, as it were.

 

Through the C.S. it is possible to buy something very closely approximating these instruments for a price which is, if not exactly cheap, at least considerably more affordable.

 

BTW I have two Gibson USA LPs and they are in my 'Top Five' all-time favourite electric guitars of any make or model so please don't think I eschew the regular 'production-line' LP models.

 

But I would never discount the idea of buying a re-issue just because these two happen to be good guitars.

 

P.

[Guest Farnsbarns]

Well said, P. I was going to post something similar but I'm glad the thought of the insuing diatribe put me off. You put it so eloquently.

[Hall]

P, a second "well said" from here.

 

Steve

[brc]

Without this going into a full debate on re-issue, I just have never understood what the big deal on a re-issue guitar.

Is not a re-issue a "copy" of the original.

If two companies had the specs, plans, same material,<wood, electronics> and both companies had top not craftsmanship, what would the difference be in the guitars if it said Gibson <re-issue"> on the head stock or some company from say Japan, Korea, or any where for that matter and was a copy.

First off, dont get me wrong, I dont condone or like knock offs at all.

I think its a shame that Gibson, Fender, and all the top quality guitars are copied, and I would never buy one.

I am just trying to understand what the big deal is on re-issue guitar.

And yes, I do understand that the price of original "vintage" guitars are priced out of the range of the average working man.

But why spend the high dollars on a re-issue, which to me is a copy of the original no matter who the manufacture is.

I think its a marking ploy from the manufactures knowing that the originals are priced out of most peoples means.

Also, I would never put down some one that purchased a re-issue, and if it works for them, then thats all that matters.

[charlie brown]

The one thing I will state, regarding "Custom Shop" guitars...they often do have a "feel,"

of an older "broken in" guitar, even as new. The Gibson USA feels more like a "New" guitar,

in need of some serious playing, to get that broken in feel (and, appearance, too)! So,

in that regard, I would concede to those differences, between Gibson CS, and Gibson USA.

But, as most here have already stated...it's no guarantee of a "better" guitar, overall.

And, in some cases, at least...CS will be purchased, simply because it is "percieved" to

be "better=more exclusive/expensive," by a certain type buyer/client, even in light of

evidence, to the contrary. But...that's fine! "Whatever floats your boat," etc.

 

CB

[sellen]

 

My most recent purchase, some of you have seen, already...was my SG "Original!"

I tried it, right along side (back and forth) a VOS CS "Historic" SG w/Maestro.

There was NO comparison. The SG "Original" was far superior, in looks (correct

color, etc.), the beveling was the same, as the CS version, even a bit better,

in all honesty, and it was "Alive" resonance wise, unplugged. The CS version

was a dead "brick," by comparison, even though they were essentially the same weight.

 

So, even though I could have purchased the VOS, I went with the SG "Original,"

instead, as it was, by all practical criteria, the better guitar, overall! Even

my 2012 '61 Satin finish SG was a lot more open/alive/resonant, than that particular

VOS SG "Historic."

 

 

CB

Will have to agree on that, have two custom shop sg,s but the one with the sound i like best is my 2011 Sg 50th anniversary.

 

For bevels, the new models look great but they do miss that sexy deep body bevel on the low E side.

BTW finally there came a Sg original here in my hometown, looked nothin' like yours CB. Mid to Late 2000 small bevels, and a bit dull color. I walked away, wondering is there a American model and a European model.

[pippy]

"I just have never understood what the big deal on a re-issue guitar."

But there isn't a big deal on the re-issues. They are merely built closer in spec to the originals, that really is all. No more than that. No Magic Pixie Dust.

 

"Is not a re-issue a "copy" of the original."

If it comes to that, almost all of the main types of LPs (DeLuxes excepted) built since their re-appearance in '68 have been, in effect, copies - a form of 'Re-issue' - of one or other of the '52-'60 guitars; whether Custom, Standard, Special, Junior etc...

The current 'Traditional' is, to all intents and purposes, a slightly modified and modernized '57-'60 Standard.

 

"But why spend the high dollars on a re-issue, which to me is a copy of the original no matter who the manufacture is."

You don't need to. As stated above, the current Trad/Standard models are just like the '57-'60 guitars with certain detail-differences - primarily as regards the body-blanks used in their manufacture.

 

The only area - authentic styles of manufacture apart - where the CS guitars might have an advantage is that they are meant to be built by the best luthiers employed by Gibson but, just like CB said earlier, I've played CS guitars which have been less than wonderful just as I've played some poor USA examples.

 

The best thing for you to do, brc, and this is the advice we give to everyone who asks, is to take your time and play as many different USA and CS guitars as you can find. Really, that's the only way you will find out what YOU like in a guitar.

 

P.

[brc]

I really dont buy the guitars to play any more, as I am more of a collector.I started playing in 1957, and due to an injury, my left hand is not 100 percent.

But I have literally played hundreds of Gibson, Fender, Guild, Rickenbacker, just about every thing you could imagine in the last 50 plus years.

So as a collector now per say, that is why I just dont understand the prices of a re-issue.

I have some very nice vintage Gibson, Fender,Mosrite, Guild guitars I would love to use again, but right now its just not possible.

If I "were" to purchase a re-issue, it would be because I liked the way it played, sounded, and not because it were listed as a re-issue.

I have some friends that own a couple re-issue Telecasters and Stratocasters, and yes they are nice but to me it still does not warrant the high prices they paid for them, but I keep my opinion to my self as they are very happy with their guitars.

[Tim Plains]

Forget about the whole '58 / '59 aspect, if you want a Les Paul newer then 1982/83 with a solid body, your only choice is a reissue, or 2013 Traditional, or some Custom Shop runs. If you want a solid body and long neck tenon, your only choice is a reissue.

[pippy]

I really dont buy the guitars to play any more, as I am more of a collector....So as a collector now per say, that is why I just dont understand the prices of a re-issue...

O.K.

 

In which case the pertinent question to ask is "What, exactly, Do You Want To Collect and Why?"

 

If you know the answers to these two questions then we can go forward quite quickly.

 

The Re-Issues are more of a collectors item than the USA models because of the attention to detail.

As stated a few times before they are almost as close to the specs of the originals as it is likely to get and this is (normally) of interest to collectors.

Also as stated previously the best luthiers are used to craft the R-I's so hopefully the workmanship is reflected in the finished items.

Finally as has also been mentioned the best wood stocks are used by the CS so, for instance, all bodies are one-piece solid blanks of the lightest mahogany.

 

All of these aspects are reflected in the higher price of these instruments.

 

None of these facts is a 100% guarantee that any CS will be a better-sounding/handling/playing guitar than a USA model.

 

But they explain why they cost what they do.

 

P.

[Rabs]

I will have to add that I have played a few of the collectors choice guitars.. im really not sure why (probably wood selection, pickups?) but there is something about those CCs that just makes them sound really good..

 

Ive tried one of these... and the sound even through an average amp was just astounding. I still wouldnt pay that much personally, but they are really nice

http://www2.gibson.com/Products/Electric-Guitars/Les-Paul/Gibson-Custom/Collector-s-Choice--3-1960-Les-Paul-The-Babe.aspx

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xY6zdvqrKrU

 

Actually all of the CCs ive seen and the few ive played have been outstanding examples.

http://www2.gibson.com/Products/Electric-Guitars/Les-Paul/Gibson-Custom/Collectors-Choice-6-1959-Les-Paul.aspx

[Riffster]

BRC frankly you have me lost, if you are a real collector you'd be at speed on this subject, you are so far off target that I just wonder what it is that you collect.

 

Reissues of the original stuff have been around for 30 years at least, you are kind of very late.

 

Forget the re-issues and forget any other line, there are no new collectables to be had since all guitars nowadays are produced in large numbers and the guitars that are not are not really played by famous musicians that will make fans want to play them and increase demand with little offer to be had.

 

It is silly that you think a re-issue is not worth the money, if you ask me what is stupid is to pay huge prices for vintage guitars just because the fact that they are vintage.

 

Eric Clapton's burst was 5 or 6 years old when he recorded with the Bluesbreakers and the burst was such an unpopular guitar that was discountinued. Why do so many people jump on that bandwagon? if it was so good why'd you seell the 58 you had?

 

Meh, guitars are made to be played even guitars in collections.

[Riffster]

One more thing I will add is that the only re-issues I have seen increase in price are signature guitars, like the Billy Gibbons LP reissue or the Jimmy Page LP reissues, if you are a collectors these types are the ones to focus on.