Bridge Plate "Zoing" ?

[duluthdan]

New SJ is strung with 13s, tuned down 1/2 step. Action at twelth fret is 6/64ths, always has been. When I strike the Low E string (open and first and second frets) I have been lately getting this "zoing" type sound as the string vibration decays. I've restrung a few times, thinking perhaps the ball ends were not snug. There is a hint of the same sound on the A string too. Humidity has not changed much in the room 38 to 42%, and humidipaks in the cases are doing their thing - dead on 50 to 52%. This guitar has a thru bridge long type saddle that wiggles a bit side to side. Perhaps its fret buzz, but sure doesn't sound or act like it. I took a mirror to the under bridge and noticed that though the ball ends were snug, there seems to be a round depression between the D and G strings - photo below - could it be that one of these suckers is not quite snug and sympathetically loving that low frequency?

[RusRob]

What you are calling a small depression appears to be a chunk of your bridge plate is missing. And yes that could very well be the cause of some odd sounds coming from your guitar.

 

By having your string ends pulling directly on the soundboard it will be no time at all before they work their way thought. Looks like a pretty bad situation that needs attention promptly.

[retrorod]

Just adding my reply from your topic also posted uner "repair and restoration"

 

I would say that it would be worth looking into. Does the 'zoing' sound occur when played acoustically also? Was the Trance system factory installed? It certainly looks like a hole was started in the center position. I don't like the way that it causes the ball ends to sit cocked into the hole. That looks like a recipe for future disaster. It also looks cramped with the cable dropping down near the bridge pin? Would the cable be touching the bridge pin and causing the noise you describe?

I would think that the hole was made during the installation process for some reason....or mistake? Weird!

[j45nick]

I hate to say it, but the damage to this bridge plate looks significant to me. I'm also surprised at how rough the pin holes look on what I believe is a new guitar.

 

The detail in the photo really isn't clear enough to make a definitive judgment, but I don't like what I see at all. As Rus Rob says, a missing chunk of bridge plate in this location is a real problem.

 

Oddly, the hole through the plate looks to be in the exact transverse center of the plate, but doesn't seem to go through the top. I can't believe Gibson would have installed a bridge plate with this defect.

[mountainpicker]

My first impression from looking at the picture was that the cable is touching the bridge pin and probably sympathetically vibrating and because the pin holes are so eroded that there is a lot of room for movement all around that area. Can't tell if your bridge plate has bolts like a lot of Gibsons do but if it does check to see that the nuts are snug up against the bridge plate as I had this problem and just bringing the nut snug to the plate solved my particular problem. But I have to concur with others so far about the condition of your bridge plate. I had to scroll back up to your initial entry to confirm that the guitar is new as that is a lot of wood missing around the two pin holes. It can't be good.

[duluthdan]

Good news is that I'm heading off to the Gibson Homecoming in June, and will visit the dealer, and the factory - with this guitar in tow. 5 months old, Gibson Custom Shop Southern Jumbo. I'll get it figured out, but for now it will live in its case with slack D and G strings. The other pieces of the herd will have to step up their rotation ! Good argument to never have just one guitar !

[Hall]

Dan, what is your own state of mind on what you saw with the mirror? I'm glad you will be packing that guitar with you to the Homecoming. Hope you get it righted.

 

Steve

[duluthdan]

My own state of mind? I am not upset or anything, Is what it is. Can be addressed. Glad its not a $12,000 Vintage.

[chasAK]

That is a machined hole. My bridge plate also has a machined hole between the D & G, but it is much further away from the bridge pin holes. Yours runs into the bridge pin holes. My only guess is that Gibson uses that hole for alignment or something. This is obviously a factor defect. Hope you are the original owner. Man, I feel for ya!!

 

chasAK

[Del Nilppeznaf]

That is a machined hole. My bridge plate also has a machined hole between the D & G, but it is much further away from the bridge pin holes. Yours runs into the bridge pin holes. My only guess is that Gibson uses that hole for alignment or something. This is obviously a factor defect. Hope you are the original owner. Man, I feel for ya!!

 

chasAK

 

+1

 

Indeed. I have the same indentation on my HB TV bridge plate, but as chas says mine is also much further away from actual pin holes. I posted a photo of the plate here and was advised that it is indeed an alignment hole.

 

if this is causing a problem..and it looks like it is Dan..and it is indeed the alignment indentation, then Gibson should fit a new plate I think.

[zombywoof]

Not sure of this would work in your case but I do know folks that have guitars with spruce bridge plates. What they had done is have a piece of maple veneer glued to the plate. This does away with the problem of the sting balls chewing up the soft wood and according to them did not change the sound. Another possibility is the plate saver (or some name like that) that Stewmac sells. Then again, if the guitar is under warrahty just let them deal with it as it is obviously a factory screw up.

[blindboygrunt]

i'm not sure whether this thread is making me want to look inside mine or not look inside

[duluthdan]

i'm not sure whether this thread is making me want to look inside mine or not look inside

I was just thinking the same thing this morning, trying to decide whether or not to peek inside the JB...

[j45nick]

This is very quickly ceasing to be funny. I checked the inside of my two Bozeman acoustics: 2010 L-OO Legend, and 2007 Fuller's 1943 SJ--and BOTH have this hole completely through the bridge plate. In both cases, it just misses the pin holes, but it really looks like crap, and really makes me wonder what they are up to in Bozeman.

 

There really is no excuse for this, and I wish they would stop. I'm not sure it's for alignment, since it is in a slightly different location in each guitar. I wish Jeremy Morton, or someone else at Gibson, would comment on this.

 

For the record, I also pulled out my 000-28 EC to compare it. The bridge plate, like the rest of the inside of the guitar, is clean an devoid of any example of ragged workmanship like this.

 

Gibson really should be ashamed of themselves, and I don't say that lightly.

[retrorod]

Ah-hah.....the resulting panic and mayham that you have caused with your discovery, Duluthdan.... . Much like the Salem witch-hunts. I hope that the local hardware stores can keep up with the demand for inspection mirrors .....

 

Nick, if you look for trouble, the law of averages dictates that you will find it

[Dave F]

You got my curiosity.

I happen to have the strings off of my J200.

Has that same hole, but it's no where near the bridgepin holes.

It looks like it may be there to inspect the glue coverage

 

 

[duluthdan]

Dave, is this bridgeplate hole in front, or in back (endpin side) of the pin holes? I looked at the Jackson Browne, and it has this same hole - but its well away from, and in front of (towards the soundhole)the bridgepins. If I had the strings off I'd snap a pic, but it looks much like yours. Maybe the bridgeplate on my SJ simply got installed backwards/ upside down? In any case, inconvenient though it may be, I'm certain this can be fixed.

[Dave F]

Dave, is this bridgeplate hole in front, or in back (endpin side) of the pin holes? I looked at the Jackson Browne, and it has this same hole - but its well away from, and in front of (towards the soundhole)the bridgepins. If I had the strings off I'd snap a pic, but it looks much like yours. Maybe the bridgeplate on my SJ simply got installed backwards/ upside down? In any case, inconvenient though it may be, I'm certain this can be fixed.

In front

[onewilyfool]

I've seen that hole on bridge plates on my Montana built Gibsons, BUT much further from the pin holes. Also, mine has what appears to be some laser mini writing, too small fro my eyes, burnt into the bridge plate??? That shouldn't be a hard fix, but still why is it there???

[E-minor7]

, , , and I don't say that lightly.

It's easy to follow your disappointment, Nick. This shouldn't occur.

The bridge plate is the most inner secret spot on a guitar and we want to be able to trust our manufacturers on that issue.

Who brings a mirror and lamp to check the inside when buying – well, I did once, but it was a second-hand 45 from the early 50's.

Just examined my 2010 J-45 Standard and the 2011 Firebird. Nothing, , , apart from the half strange hole Duluth and Dave are talking about.

Plus 2 minor nail-holes for wires.

[Del Nilppeznaf]

I've seen that hole on bridge plates on my Montana built Gibsons, BUT much further from the pin holes. Also, mine has what appears to be some laser mini writing, too small fro my eyes, burnt into the bridge plate??? That shouldn't be a hard fix, but still why is it there???

 

Wily,

 

the writing is the name of the part and what model guitar..... I posted pics asking about the same thing.

 

i think it was Hogeye who responded that the hole is a guide for placement ? Mine seems directly center...and WELL away from pin holes. From Nick and Dan's experience though...this looks like it could get messy !

 

I think Dan's plate is very bad...and if this is comming out of Bozeman like this ( which seems the case )..then I'm with Nick..it's a serious issue.

[RusRob]

What I don't understand is why in the world would Gibson put a hole in the bridge plate... I have not worked on that many Gibson's but the ones I have I have never seen that before (not to say they are not doing it now). I have worked on a number of Martins and they use very small pins for locating the bridge but they don't go all the way through the bridge plate.

 

I have always been under the impression that you don't mess with the bridge plate unless you absolutely have to.

 

Just seems a very strange thing to do.

 

Is that for positioning the bridge or just the bridge plate? (curious minds want to know...)

[michaeljohnr]

Here's the inside of my J45. With slotted pins and without. You can see the hole in mine, and it seems to be further away from my strings than yours is.

 

 

[j45nick]

Plus 2 minor nail-holes for wires.

 

 

I note that those holes are there as well. It seems like Gibson is "pre-fitting" all bridges and bridge plates for UST's, even if the model is never intended to have one. I wish they wouldn't do that. I don't like extra holes in my bridge plates, and don't like them in the bridge.

 

Bridge plate wear and damage is one thing I look for very carefully in a vintage guitar. Seems like now we have to look at it in new Gibsons as well. One thing you see a lot in vintage guitars is fractures in the bridge plate across the pin holes, which really calls for a new plate to prevent long-term damage. This hole in close proximity to the pin holes in new Gibson bridge plates is only going to exacerbate this problem.

 

I don't know what they are thinking, but this is so counter to good building practice that it defies comprehension.

[duluthdan]

This hole cannot be for location placement - if so, my SJ is way off The factory tour coming up in June now carries a bit more interest.