Twang Gang Posted April 15, 2013 Posted April 15, 2013 A month or so ago we had a forum discussion on how the exact same model of LP can vary in weight by as much as a couple of pounds. Granted newer ones are "weight relieved" and older ones weren't etc, but we were talking specifically about two identical models from the same production year. So I thought I'd ask an "expert". I sent an email to Bob Taylor of Taylor guitars and he has a column in his quarterly magazine called "Ask Bob" where he explains things about building guitars and why his company does things a certain way - use of different tone wood combinations, different bracing etc. Taylor has been building solid body electrics out of mahogany for about 7 years now so I posed the question to him about why they vary in weight so much, he published the answer in the Spring issue of Wood and Steel: "....wood just varies in weight from tree to tree. Some are denser than others. I haven't tried to figure that out." In my question I asked if different densities and weight wouldn't ultimately effect the guitars tone? Reply: "It does affect tone, each guitar sounds like it sounds, and that's one of the great things about guitars. I know this is sort of a non-answer, but it is the answer" Soooooooooo - like I've said many times - if it all possible you have to go play a guitar to see how it feels and what the tone is like, because they are all individuals made from an organic material - no two exactly alike.
krock Posted April 16, 2013 Posted April 16, 2013 His replies were very vague and general but Im with you on trying out a few of the same model when you go to buy one. I feel that because everyone has a different perception of what is best it's actually useful for the densities to be different because it allows you to find the ideal guitar. For example I like my electric's heavy and my bass' medium weight where as I know many of the people here has other preferences.
milod Posted April 16, 2013 Posted April 16, 2013 Basically I've been saying the same thing for years and an "expert" <grin> kinda adds some weight to it. One neat thing I've noticed about Sweetwater's web site is that you can look at their guitar gallery if they have several of the same guitar model, and see what is the weight of each. They ain't all the same, although the variation is somewhat greater or lesser on a given model compared to another type of guitar. m
pippy Posted April 16, 2013 Posted April 16, 2013 "....wood just varies in weight from tree to tree. Some are denser than others. I haven't tried to figure that out." I don't quite know what to make of this last remark. In several diverse places - both in 'hard copy' and on the web - I've read that the difference in weight is a result of the amount of minerals / silicates etc. drawn into the wood by the tree from the soil. FWIW the original '52 - '60 LPs were all made with body-blanks made from Honduran Mahogany. Honduran Mahogany is typically 15 - 20% heavier than the more readily available (and cheaper) African Mahogany. P.
btoth76 Posted April 16, 2013 Posted April 16, 2013 Are there two exactly same men from the same race? Even twins would differ. Same is true for everything. When it comes to wood there are many factors that determining the weight. Two blanks with the same dimensions may vary in weight due to: the place they grew, their age, the way and time they were left to dry. Even the time of the day the tree was cut out will influence the overall weight of the raw material made from it. Even moon-phase...(and the list can go on). Cheers... Bence
badbluesplayer Posted April 16, 2013 Posted April 16, 2013 I don't think Bob was very well prepared to answer the question. I'd like to know the real answer. I always "heard" that the less dense mahogany generally came from larger trees. Probably more to do with what CB is talking about or maybe has to do with the ratio of early growth to late growth in the particular tree. :unsure:
Twang Gang Posted April 16, 2013 Author Posted April 16, 2013 I was little disapointed he didn't have a slightly more scientific explanation - but I guess it is what it is. He did comment on another question about mahogany necks, that because they vary so much they weigh them and use the lighter ones for classical guitars. In the end I guess he is just resigned to the fact that the wood varies quite a bit in density and weight and there is nothing we can do about it.
badbluesplayer Posted April 17, 2013 Posted April 17, 2013 This is interesting. It seems that the density of the wood is mostly related to how fast it grows, with the rapid growing trees being lighter. http://books.google.com/books?id=VI-iDtDJMC0C&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false
Twang Gang Posted April 17, 2013 Author Posted April 17, 2013 Good job Badblues finding the Dept of Ag report from 1917 to explain more than you ever wanted to know about mahogany. I read most of it and did not see the word guitar mentioned once. Seems supply was being diminished as early as the mid 1800s as it was used primarily to build sailing ships. In 1846 85,000,000 board feet were shipped to England to make ships and furniture. No wonder it's getting scarce now. Report indicates density (and thus weight) a function of rate of growth with Mexican being the lightest, followed by Cuban, Honduran heavier and Florida mahogany the heaviest (although doubt there is any left there). Bet Gibson, Taylor, Fender and all other makers would like to get their hands on some for the prices mentioned in the early century report - $200 for 1000 board feet!! :unsure:
dem00n Posted April 17, 2013 Posted April 17, 2013 I'll just leave it at this. A long time ago in a guitar center far far away, there were two Gibson Studio LP's, right next to each other. Both the same model, string gauge, year, etc, except for the color of the guitar. One was white; the other was a black hole. They both sounded different played through the same amp, same hands and same ears. One had more treble, the other had more bass. Which one sounded sweeter? Well, that’s a personal view and really depends on the amp you'll be using. They both felt the same, it was truly an awe worthy moment, for every guitar player in the store (Except for the 12 yr old playing "One" in the corner of the store) realized at this point that two exactly same guitars can sound different. Everyone’s view on tone wood changed after that, we were changed men. We no longer bought guitars online, because that is futile. Its like that whole Russian bride ordering thing, you might get the fat one by accident and not the double D blonde. So yes, weight will differ with all types of wood, more so in Mahogany then lets say...Pine?
RaysEpiphone Posted April 18, 2013 Posted April 18, 2013 A Standard Les Paul is lighter then a Custom because the Custom has gold plated hard-ware.
badbluesplayer Posted April 18, 2013 Posted April 18, 2013 A Standard Les Paul is lighter then a Custom because the Custom has gold plated hard-ware. It's actually heavier because custom appointments grow slower that standard appointments.
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