Jasper6120 Posted April 17, 2013 Share Posted April 17, 2013 Hey and hi hello everyone I have two questions. I have recently purchased a beautiful old original 1957 Gibson L5CES. I acquired it relatively cheap because, well, frankly it's been through the wars and needs work. As some of you may know, the L5 made the transition from P90 style alnico V pickups to PAF humbuckers in 1957. My one was originally an Alnico V guitar but someone has done a bit of DIY and put in a set of 60's patent humbuckers. Fair enough I suppose; who likes hum? But the work wasn't great and there are a few holes and bodgy cuts to repair. Someone had also taken to the tale piece at one stage and polished all the gold plating clean off. Boring... The insert, which is normally silver has (I believe) been replaced and it is gold. So the tailpiece is inverted in terms of colour. Was it just the L5S that had the gold insert?? 70's volume and tone knobs and a very ill fitting hum bucker scratch plate have also been installed to complete the 70's nightmare on this old machine. Most of this stuff is easy enough to fix, replace, but I am stuck on the scratch plate. I know that in the 50's the scratch plates came up to about the 3rd last fret of the guitar. In later years they only come to the very last fret of the guitar. So the scratch plate is in a different position, but is it a different size over all?? I want to restore it to original specs. Secondly; the paint is stuffed. There is none remaining on the back of the neck and around the body is quite worn. I want, not so much to completely refinish the guitar but fix it up in some way. The finish is a kind of light cremona burst and I think this guitar would look incredible a shade or two darker. The desired result would be something like this finish: http://www.archtop.com/ac_46L5_208.html What is everyones thoughts on painting a machine such as this? As I mentioned, I don't want to rub it back; just seal it up and enhance the look of the thing. I have a highly skilled luthier on the case and I wont be doing it myself. Regards Jordan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dem00n Posted April 17, 2013 Share Posted April 17, 2013 Sure, you can always repaint the guitar and seal it, but it won't be orgnial. The desire for orginaility in a guitar is very high when buying one, so the real answer to your self is, is this going to be a guitar you'll keep for a long time or just play for a few years and sell it? If you are going to keep the guitar for a number of years and you're postive of that, then go ahead and paint it. If not, forget it then. Just enjoy the guitar for its sounds, not its looks. You're the only one who will enjoy the paint job anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twang Gang Posted April 17, 2013 Share Posted April 17, 2013 The Custom Shop reproduces these now (to 58 specs I believe) and the pickguard they use only comes up to the last fret on the fingerboard. The knobs and tailpiece can be ordered direct from Gibson. I would certainly not "paint" the guitar. Original patina and the way the wood has opened up over the years is valuable and has it's effect on the tone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted April 17, 2013 Share Posted April 17, 2013 Clearly a topic for L5Larry to weigh in on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L5Larry Posted April 17, 2013 Share Posted April 17, 2013 Clearly a topic for L5Larry to weigh in on. Before I can make an intelligent assessment I'd like to see some detailed photos of the mods, finish wear, pickguard, tailpiece, etc. Photos please! PS: I'm also stalling for time (and making a bookmark), for I have to run to soundcheck for a concert this evening. I'll check-in in the morning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badbluesplayer Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 Painting an archtop is risky business. Plus, it loses it's mojo. I went to some kind of Martin guitar workshop and the guy in charge of artist relations was there and he said if he ever caught any of us refinishing a Martin he'd give us a noogie and pinch our ear 'till we say we're sorry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasper6120 Posted April 18, 2013 Author Share Posted April 18, 2013 This is officially the crummiest photo you can possibly imagine, but the guitar is away at the moment and I have no pre existing photos of it. BUT I have found out some new things. My luthier is quite sure that the guitar has already been refinished. He thinks this because the screw holes for the p90 pickups (which haven't been used since buckers went into in the 1960's) have paint all through them i.e. there has been no screws put in these holes since the current coat of paint has been put on the guitar. The finish was well done. Paper thin like the proper Gibson finishes on these machines but just a funny 60's orangy reddy sideways flary vinyl seats polyester shirts kind of colour which doesn't provide me with the 'mojo' I'd like to be working with. Anyway, so. The paint is stuffed, its been refinished in the past, holds little collector value on account of all the mods and has the potential to look a whole lot prettier. Is this a game changer? Cheers J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 Hmm,, that's a rough picture to base any opinions on Jasper. Get some more when you can, the guys that know about this stuff here.. REALLY know about this stuff... Give em some good photos and you'll get loads of info,, for free no less! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twang Gang Posted April 18, 2013 Share Posted April 18, 2013 This is officially the crummiest photo you can possibly imagine, but the guitar is away at the moment and I have no pre existing photos of it. BUT I have found out some new things. My luthier is quite sure that the guitar has already been refinished. He thinks this because the screw holes for the p90 pickups (which haven't been used since buckers went into in the 1960's) have paint all through them i.e. there has been no screws put in these holes since the current coat of paint has been put on the guitar. The finish was well done. Paper thin like the proper Gibson finishes on these machines but just a funny 60's orangy reddy sideways flary vinyl seats polyester shirts kind of colour which doesn't provide me with the 'mojo' I'd like to be working with. Anyway, so. The paint is stuffed, its been refinished in the past, holds little collector value on account of all the mods and has the potential to look a whole lot prettier. Is this a game changer? Cheers J I'd say that is a game changer. Since it's already been refinshed once and you're not happy with the way it looks then I'd go for it. It's not like you are ruining an original finish. Take it down to bare wood - fill in all the holes and gaps around the pups and make it look good again. Get the new knobs, pickguard, tailpiece and any other hardware you need and turn it into a fresh old guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasper6120 Posted April 20, 2013 Author Share Posted April 20, 2013 Does anyone know about the pick guard? I know that they are pinned further from the cutaway now than what they were in the 50's, but are they shorter as well? I need to get my hands on the right pick guard for this guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L5Larry Posted April 20, 2013 Share Posted April 20, 2013 I need to get my hands on the right pick guard for this guitar. As these were/are handmade guitars, many things varied from guitar to guitar, including the pickguard (which were also handmade) and it's placement. I have used these repro guards sold by AllParts, and compared them side-by-side with Gibson originals. I found them to be equal, or superior, to the Gibson originals. http://www.allparts.com/PG-9815-043-Bound-Tortoise-L-5-Pickguard_p_2782.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasper6120 Posted April 21, 2013 Author Share Posted April 21, 2013 Cheers Larry, but were the 50's ones typically longer? I can't accurately tell by looking at photos, but the 50's ones seem to be about a half inch longer. The one on my 57 is aftermarket so I can't use it to compare with anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zigzag Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 This advice is meaningless since I have no idea what I'm talking about. I'm with Twang Gang. It seems to me that trying to keep it as original as possible would serve no real purpose in adding value because of its current condition. If it was mine, I'd make the necessary repairs to get it where I was happy with the looks and the sound and play the hell out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L5Larry Posted April 21, 2013 Share Posted April 21, 2013 Cheers Larry, but were the 50's ones typically longer? The position of the pickguard is determined by the location of the bridge pickup. So, does the size of the pickguard vary, OR does the location of the bridge pickup vary???? Interesting questions to ponder, but the fact of the matter is that your going to have to buy available aftermarket parts for your project. As for the new pickguard, your options are very limited. So you're are going to buy what's available, line-up the back corner with the back edge of the bridge pickup ring, and the front point is going to fall where it may. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasper6120 Posted April 22, 2013 Author Share Posted April 22, 2013 Cheers Larry. I would still like to know for certain whether the pickguards on 50's l5CESs are longer than the 8 inch pickguards that are on current models. I'll probably go with allparts so thanks for the lead, Larry. I still need to suit my curiosity mind you. Anyone with an old axe and a tape measure let me know! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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