The Eternal "Tone" chase...

[charlie brown]

There's been lots of discussion, here, on "Tone!" Guitar tone, Amp tone, pedals, etc.

And, I know a lot (if not most) of it's "personal," and a bit of a "tail chase," but...

One thing I haven't really seen, is that of "Familiarity (in tone) Breeds Contempt,"

and how much that may (or, may not) be a factor, in our constant satisfaction,

then (at some point) dissatisfaction, again, with our "Tone!"

 

I.E., maybe the real reason we keep searching, is that we get too "familiar" with

our tone, even if it's "Great," and...always seem to want something more? Our

seeming "need" to go further, change things, etc., sometimes just to stave off our

own boredom, maybe?

 

The reason I bring this up, is that I can have "The Tone," for awhile, and even in

a particular room, and then later, seem to lose that...even with the same gear,

setting, and room. Never mind, the fact that all those settings and that gear can

(and often does) sound different, in every place (room/venue) you play, each time

you play! (Hence the "Tail Chase" analogy.) ;>b What do you all think?

 

CB

[RowdyMoon]

There's been lots of discussion, here, on "Tone!" Guitar tone, Amp tone, pedals, etc.

And, I know a lot (if not most) of it's "personal," and a bit of a "tail chase," but...

One thing I haven't really seen, is that of "Familiarity (in tone) Breeds Contempt,"

and how much that may (or, may not) be a factor, in our constant satisfaction,

then (at some point) dissatisfaction, again, with our "Tone!"

 

I.E., maybe the real reason we keep searching, is that we get too "familiar" with

our tone, even if it's "Great," and...always seem to want something more? Our

seeming "need" to go further, change things, etc., sometimes just to stave off our

own boredom, maybe?

 

The reason I bring this up, is that I can have "The Tone," for awhile, and even in

a particular room, and then later, seem to lose that...even with the same gear,

setting, and room. Never mind, the fact that all those settings and that gear can

(and often does) sound different, in every place (room/venue) you play, each time

you play! (Hence the "Tail Chase" analogy.) ;>b What do you all think?

 

CB

 

 

You speak the truth...I have noticed that myself that sometimes all being the same I just don't like the sound so I tweek and tweek.....weird, must all be perception or mood or something.

[charlie brown]

Frustrating, isn't it! I wonder if some of it is not just familiarity=boredom,

but even ear fatique, especially at even the higher "bedroom" volumes. It's really interesting,

and odd, at the same time...this whole situation, that is.

 

CB

[BigDave78]

I know for myself that my Tone is ever changing and i contribute it to a few different things. 1. is my rather wide range of musical styles I like to play and listen to. 2. My constant drive to learn and grow as a guitar player. 3. Is what I call an enjoyable nuisince. For all the aggrevation of not getting the sound I want the more enjoyment I get when I final hear that tone that is just right (at that moment atleast).

[Sgt.]

There's been lots of discussion, here, on "Tone!" Guitar tone, Amp tone, pedals, etc.

And, I know a lot (if not most) of it's "personal," and a bit of a "tail chase," but...

One thing I haven't really seen, is that of "Familiarity (in tone) Breeds Contempt,"

and how much that may (or, may not) be a factor, in our constant satisfaction,

then (at some point) dissatisfaction, again, with our "Tone!"

 

I.E., maybe the real reason we keep searching, is that we get too "familiar" with

our tone, even if it's "Great," and...always seem to want something more? Our

seeming "need" to go further, change things, etc., sometimes just to stave off our

own boredom, maybe?

 

The reason I bring this up, is that I can have "The Tone," for awhile, and even in

a particular room, and then later, seem to lose that...even with the same gear,

setting, and room. Never mind, the fact that all those settings and that gear can

(and often does) sound different, in every place (room/venue) you play, each time

you play! (Hence the "Tail Chase" analogy.) ;>b What do you all think?

 

CB

 

sell it to a kid: "yeah, jr. the squire bullet and the solidsate sidekick is all you ever need ...". Even the kid knows some things suck, he just can't afford the good stuff ... yet! hawhaw

Tone is more than just buying the most expensive equipment you can afford and hoping for the best, in fact if that kid was any good he might be able to shine the crap out of the squire.

Easy ways to improve your tone by upgrading from stock parts are speakers and tubes. speaker and tube changes are relatively easy compared to electronics overhauls. A change in the material of strings affects tone, nickel to steel. pickups and electronics i.e. tone capacitors. Big instrument companies will cheap on small stuff to get the price down. For example, i'm currently upgrading tone caps on my lp studio because the stock ceramic 2 cent discs that do the same as the expensive paper-in-oil caps i just sprung for, don't inspire my confidence as well yeah those are pure ways to regard tone. i don't believe in 'colouring' sound with a whole bunch of pedals. it should sound good clean, tone is a lot to do with the player.

[rct]

To me, in my experience, there are two tones. A decent clean, and a decent overdriven sound. In my experience, I can use pretty much any decent guitar, my experience being Fenders and Gibsons, and any decent tube amp, Fender and Marshall come to mind, as do many others, and I can get a decent clean and a decent overdrive, while sounding like me.

 

Since I haven't used a pedal in about...25 years now, I can safely say it is all salesmanship that I just don't buy. I'm pretty content with pretty decent, fairly straight forward guitars into straight forward amps, so I don't chase tone, haven't in a very long time.

 

Each guitar player is on a different path though.

 

rct

[charlie brown]

Well, as they say, the "tone" is in the fingers, and "heart!" I doubt I'll ever be

totally satisfied, with either...as I like to contiually learn, and to continue to

experiment, as well. FWIW...I only use pedals, for specific sounds...and NOT for

my preferred basic "tone!"

 

But, as I mentioned initially, there are times, when even my preferred tone, be it

clean, or overdriven, seems "different" somehow, from other times, all things being

equal. I guess that's what I was wondering, most. What you're ideas, experiences,

and input, on that particular phenomenon, was/is?

 

CB

[rct]

Well, as they say, the "tone" is in the fingers, and "heart!" I doubt I'll ever be

totally satisfied, with either...as I like to contiually learn, and to continue to

experiment, as well. FWIW...I only use pedals, for specific sounds...and NOT for

my preferred basic "tone!"

 

But, as I mentioned initially, there are times, when even my preferred tone, be it

clean, or overdriven, seems "different" somehow, from other times, all things being

equal. I guess that's what I was wondering, most. What you're ideas, experiences,

and input, on that particular phenomenon, was/is?

 

CB

 

I have found it is usually the difference between what I think/hope/believe I am going to hear and what I actually do hear.

 

If I'm too close to the amp, too immediate, I never like how it sounds, I never like my "tone". But then when I listen to the tape, it's still me, still the same, and I'm happy. If my amp is too loud, it is too prominent in the mix, and I can hear it when I'm singing, I hate my tone, don't like how I sound, get unhappy. But then when I listen to the tape, it's still me, still the same, and I'm happy.

 

For live stuff I always need(ed) to be just far enough away from the amp for it to pretty much get lost back there, and to for me to rely on discipline more than what I can hear of myself in order to get the song done. I prefer the sound of a band with myself in it somewhere, usually a little bit low volume wise as a part of a band, but I have spent most of my playing life playing very loud.

 

I certainly have played the tape back and not like what I heard, usually in a venue where they control the sound and I don't, using house Twin with a Big Muff for dirt, for instance. Or no/crappy/bad monitors and my amp is too loud, that stuff contributes to not sounding good to me.

 

But for recording, I know what that should sound like so I make it sound like that, that's pretty easy. For just hanging around drinking beer and playing Green Grass and High Tides, I just move the knobs clockwise and it sounds pretty durn good. And without ego, without arrogance, for as long as I been doing this, it should sound pretty durn good.

 

rct

[charlie brown]

So...it's NOT "Just me," after all?! LOL Good!

 

CB

[NHTom]

I think we all have a "fallback" tone that we are very happy with, but we are also always on the lookout for that illusive "better" tone.

 

For example, in the 80's shred days.....I had my Explorer, Charvels, BC Riches, etc.....My Bedrock 1400 amp, and a pedal board. LOVED IT!!!.....worked in a guitar shop at the time so got to try all kinds of stuff and choose my favorites.

 

BUT....un known to all my hairsprayed shredder friends, I always had a Fender American Standard Strat and an old silver face Fender Super Reverb stashed at home.....that combo had some SWEET sounds.......they were not my "tone" at that time, but still had much love and respect for those sounds.

 

 

I still fall back to that darker overdrive sound I had (have a new Laney Cub 12r that does it very well) because that tone is my old comfortable pair of jeans......but still check out as much stuff as I can "just in case" the next great tone jumps out in front of me.

 

NHTom

[badbluesplayer]

Here's my theory about tone chasing. It mostly has to do with your personality.

 

If you think you have to mess with your gear to get the right tone, you'll never get it. Because you will convince yourself that you are not a master of your tone. The way I get the tone I want is to set everything on the amp at 12 o'clock and make the tone myself.

 

If you can't set the amp controls at 12 oclock and get the tone you want, you need to change you mindset.

 

If you think that you have to get your gear to make the tone, you may be partly right, but you'll never develop mastery of the instrument. Because you'll always be reinforcing the notion that you're no good because you have to try to get your equipment to do what you can't.

 

My guess is that people who are always fiddling with their controls need to be forced to play at the same volume and tone settings for two weeks to instill confidence. The more you fiddle with the controls the worse you get.

[charlie brown]

Here's my theory about tone chasing. It mostly has to do with your personality.

 

If you think you have to mess with your gear to get the right tone, you'll never get it. Because you will convince yourself that you are not a master of your tone. The way I get the tone I want is to set everything on the amp at 12 o'clock and make the tone myself.

 

If you can't set the amp controls at 12 oclock and get the tone you want, you need to change you mindset.

 

If you think that you have to get your gear to make the tone, you may be partly right, but you'll never develop mastery of the instrument. Because you'll always be reinforcing the notion that you're no good because you have to try to get your equipment to do what you can't.

 

My guess is that people who are always fiddling with their controls need to be forced to play at the same volume and tone settings for two weeks to instill confidence. The more you fiddle with the controls the worse you get.

 

Yeah, back in the '60's, we played with every knob "wide open!" Never had any "tone" issues, then! LOL

Seriously, though...finding the "sweet spot," on one's amp (to me) is the most critical thing. Once you find that,

everthing else, is just "coloring"...IMHO. I'm talking strictly Amp tone, and not that which you produce, via your

"chops!" So, yeah..."set it, and forget it!" Which I pretty much always do.

 

My only "problem" is, that sometimes it just doesn't sound the same, for some reason. My hearing, humidity,

the "room," whatever! I've learned to pretty much ignore that, anymore. But, I've always wondered about it...

so, thought I'd ask you all, and see if it was just "me," or if you've had similar experiences. Thanks, for the

input, thus far!

 

CB

[pippy]

The closest I've personally experienced to your description has been as follows;

 

If, say, I've spent a few days playing somewhat in the mood of Peter Green's mellowest moments - 'Worried Dream', 'Love That Burns' and so on - and have moved on to something completely different such as 'Gary Moore' by way of 'The Beano' (as I say; COMPLETELY different...lol!) but then dial-in the settings for the first-mentioned again it will always sound incredibly muffled. Always.

 

If I leave everything in this 'muffled' state and just continue to play my ears will soon re-adjust and I will realise that it is, after all, the correct sound.

 

My set-up for the last 25 years has been, like that mentioned by rct, just a guitar and an amp., so the list of 'variables' in the mix is nil.

 

I guess it's the same as 'Colour Constancy' in vision; the brain automatically re-adjusts for colour-shift. Stare at a red image for long enough; then stare at a sheet of white paper. It WILL look Green.

 

Not Moore............Green.

 

 

EDIT : The 'Worst' I've experienced in the tone-chase, FWIW, has been on every occasion when I've tried to find those tones which are second-nature to me and my 33-year partnership with my M-M 2x12 65w on anything else.

Everytime I get asked 'What sort of sound do you want?' I just say 'Clean' and get on with it - but it never once has it been 'the same'.

For this very reason I've been known to drag my 60lbs of noise-maker along to the local open-mic just to give me a solid base....

 

P.

[charlie brown]

Well, I'm CONSTANTLY "learning," when it comes to "tone," rooms, etc. Nowadays, with

all the PA technology, I'm finding I need to really "let go of," my old "Luddite"

tendencies, regarding the use of large, and "too loud," amps...and, to embrace the smaller,

amps, with great tone, at their lesser volumes, and to just let the PA control the overall

volume. I had a gig, last weekend, outdoors...with a HUGE PA, that I hadn't played through.

I took my Twin Reverb. I SHOULD have taken my "Blues Jr," or at most, the HR Deluxe!

 

But, "Live and Learn!"

 

CB

[Guest Farnsbarns]

This is so true in so many things in life. I can create a web site design that I love. After staring at it for a month it begins to look crap.

 

Simon and Garfunkel put it so well with he line "all my words come back to me in shades of mediocrity".

[surfpup]

I think eternal is the right word, CB - because it never ends. Very few people are using exactly what they used when they started out. Now, they might be using some old gear... but different gear or gear the came back to. I think there is a certain restlessness to a guitar player's rig. Maybe a ... "Gotta be a way to make it better" attitude. I know if I had every piece of gear I've ever used I'd need a very big space to put it in.

[chewy60]

i've been satisfied with my tone for awhile. it's pretty simple. mid cut, treble flat, bass boosted and volume cranked....

[Sgt.]

There's been lots of discussion, here, on "Tone!" Guitar tone, Amp tone, pedals, etc.

And, I know a lot (if not most) of it's "personal," and a bit of a "tail chase," but...

One thing I haven't really seen, is that of "Familiarity (in tone) Breeds Contempt,"

and how much that may (or, may not) be a factor, in our constant satisfaction,

then (at some point) dissatisfaction, again, with our "Tone!"

 

I.E., maybe the real reason we keep searching, is that we get too "familiar" with

our tone, even if it's "Great," and...always seem to want something more? Our

seeming "need" to go further, change things, etc., sometimes just to stave off our

own boredom, maybe?

 

The reason I bring this up, is that I can have "The Tone," for awhile, and even in

a particular room, and then later, seem to lose that...even with the same gear,

setting, and room. Never mind, the fact that all those settings and that gear can

(and often does) sound different, in every place (room/venue) you play, each time

you play! (Hence the "Tail Chase" analogy.) ;>b What do you all think?

 

CB

 

how many times can you play a great song until you get sick of it.

there's an appetite for great tone that can/cannot be satiated. yes it's frustrating to have that sound you want nailed only to have to suffer an idiot audience who only wants to see how loud you can go. lol

[charlie brown]

Yeah, that "if you can't be good, be LOUD," camp.

 

CB

[UCSF2012]

I've already found my tone, and it's bliss. The entire rig can be had for under a grand: guitar, amp, cables.

 

I have other guitars for variety's sake, but I've found The One. My search for others have thus far ended in dissatisfaction and have ceased.