Always Buy Better Gear Than You Think You Need

[badbluesplayer]

When I was a kid, I had a used trumpet that was flat. It was probably worth fifty bucks. I couldn't adjust it to get it sharp enough to be in tune. If I parsed my lips just right, I could make it sharp enough to "tune up," but once I started playing, I couldn't stay in tune. It drove the band guy crazy. I was a good trumpet player but from fourth grade through 8th grade I had to use that POS until I got kicked out of the band and gave it up. Why? Because it wasn't "worth" the upgrade.

 

So now I buy expensive stuff. Because I deserve it.

 

You deserve it. And if you have kids, gosh, get them a decent rig!!

[charlie brown]

I wholeheartedly agree! I've been fortunate enough, to have always had better gear, than

I deserved as a player, initially. Probably still DO. LOL But, at least I can't blame

the equipment, for any lack of musical prowess, on my part.

 

And, nowadays, there's such a plethora of great gear, in ALL price ranges, that we simple didn't

have, back then. So, there's really no excuse, not to buy your child a "decent" rig...IMHO.

You certainly don't have to go "Custom Shop" on everything...let the kid do that, LATER, if

he/she wants, and can afford it. But, again...really good, even great gear is plentiful,

nowadays, in all price ranges.

 

CB

[Greybeard]

When I was a kid, I had a used trumpet that was flat. It was probably worth fifty bucks. I couldn't adjust it to get it sharp enough to be in tune. If I parsed my lips just right, I could make it sharp enough to "tune up," but once I started playing, I couldn't stay in tune. It drove the band guy crazy. I was a good trumpet player but from fourth grade through 8th grade I had to use that POS until I got kicked out of the band and gave it up. Why? Because it wasn't "worth" the upgrade.

 

So now I buy expensive stuff. Because I deserve it.

 

You deserve it. And if you have kids, gosh, get them a decent rig!!

 

 

Right on man. When I started playing I had a used acoustic guitar that had a neck the size of a horse's leg with the strings about a half inch above the frets. My fingers were peeling from the blisters I was wearing off trying to play it. I gradually worked odd jobs and bought myself a good guitar that I kept for the next twenty five years or so and it made all the difference in the world in how fast I could learn.

 

When my two boys got interested in learning music I bought them the best stuff I could afford over the arguements from the wife that we didn't need to spend so much on instruments for beginners. Both the boys are now excellent musicians and still keep active in music now that they are both in their thirties. I still buy them the occasional piece of equipment even though they are able to do it on their own just because I am able to and they are still building their own careers and families. I look at it as something that I can do for them that they wouldn't do for themselves because of other financial priorities. I hope that I have instilled in them an appreciation for a good piece of equipment that they can pass along to their kids if they get into music someday.

[Hall]

and now that I have hung it up, 'cept for fun, I have a whole bunch of expensive gear I'm ready to sell! Time for a new Caddy.

 

S.

[Riffster]

Yep, while "tone is in the fingers" good gear helps a lot, I like owning gear that I can grow into rather than gear that holds me back.

 

I grew up not being able to afford gear, my brother had an electric guitar but no amp. Now I just buy whatever I want.

[zigzag]

Tone may be in your fingers, but motivation is in your head. I regret putting the guitar down for so long, and probably would have been more motivated to continue had I had a better guitar from the beginning.

[charlie brown]

On the other hand...then, we get into the definition, of decent/adequate,

to more than adequate, gear! And, what's truly "needed," as opposed to

just "desired," and why! And, how that all plays into what's considered

decent/adequate/Great.

 

I wish one could take "Peer" pressure, and "hero worship" out of the equation.

But, it's simply not possible. "Great" gear, is too often equated with what

some call "snob appeal." It has little to do, with what's actually adequate,

or even awesome, instrument wise. So, I can certainly understand parents, not

wanting to spend the kind of money, that fuels that, as opposed to just a decent

enough, and quite usable guitar/amp, or other instrument. But, it fuels the industry,

and our lives...well past our childhoods.

 

 

CB

[cookieman15061]

Plus with the internet you have a plethora of places to buy gear from. Back in the 70s we had two decent mom and pop stores in the county. They carried Peavey amps and sound rigs, Ibanez and Alvarez guitars and a few other Japanese off brands. They were great to deal with and I laugh now how my old man would wheel and deal with the owner. Once traded his set of Byron Nelson golf clubs for an acoustic 12 string for me.

 

The other music store dealt mostly in used gear but had a great luthier and helped me out a lot when I was just learning how to set up a guitar.

 

So if you were looking for a guitar from the big boys you were getting it used back then or traveling the 30 miles into the city.

[Riffster]

Tone may be in your fingers, but motivation is in your head. I regret putting the guitar down for so long, and probably would have been more motivated to continue had I had a better guitar from the beginning.

 

Me too, then when I got back into it I bought a cheap Epiphone pack and was very uninspiring, I am sure a virtuoso could make that rig sing but I sure as hell didn't and again did not play for another 4 or 5 years, I regret having "saved" money.

 

Once I bought my Gibson faded LP I stuck with it because I liked the feel and sound.

[Riffster]

Then at some point better gear has diminishing returns just like everything else.

[chewy60]

well, you gotta spend at least a couple grand for a good used gigging rig. doesn't have to cost an arm and a leg, but you inevitably get what you pay for....

[Izzy]

well, you gotta spend at least a couple grand for a good used gigging rig. doesn't have to cost an arm and a leg, but you inevitably get what you pay for....

 

$2k? No way! A mexi strat, taken to a luthier, is a very decent instrument ($300 maybe). Add a small VOX AC4 even new for less than $300 and the few extras like strings and picks and a cord...should not be more than $700. For a kid, that rig is just right. For ME that is just right. I just happen to be loving the be-jesus out of that rig at the moment, and I have WAY more expensive guitars.

 

The problem is the set-up half the time. Non-guitarists (picture your parents if they never played guitar) wouldn't know how to hunt at a pawnshop, check for a crooked neck or plugging in to an amp to check for pots making noises. This is why they often buy new. Most people buy something NEW and think it is ready to use. I can hear it now, "but we JUST got that Squier NEW from GC, why do we have to take it to a guitar repair dude?" Because it feels horrible with high action and the cheap tuners keep the new player believing, "I sound awful" when it is in fact the guitar de-tuning every five minutes for lack of better tuning thingies.

 

I find it so interesting that Jack White played a Montgomery Wards JB Hutto guitar with the White stripes and made it work VERY well. He didn't play it because he was poor, this was his TOURING instrument. Treat it well, set her up right, and a humble guitar (not talking POS from Wallmart here but even a decent Squier) is all a new guitar player needs. The rest is determination and interest.

[chewy60]

$2k? No way! A mexi strat, taken to a luthier, is a very decent instrument ($300 maybe). Add a small VOX AC4 even new for less than $300 and the few extras like strings and picks and a cord...should not be more than $700. For a kid, that rig is just right. For ME that is just right. I just happen to be loving the be-jesus out of that rig at the moment, and I have WAY more expensive guitars.

 

The problem is the set-up half the time. Non-guitarists (picture your parents if they never played guitar) wouldn't know how to hunt at a pawnshop, check for a crooked neck or plugging in to an amp to check for pots making noises. This is why they often buy new. Most people buy something NEW and think it is ready to use. I can hear it now, "but we JUST got that Squier NEW from GC, why do we have to take it to a guitar repair dude?" Because it feels horrible with high action and the cheap tuners keep the new player believing, "I sound awful" when it is in fact the guitar de-tuning every five minutes for lack of better tuning thingies.

 

I find it so interesting that Jack White played a Montgomery Wards JB Hutto guitar with the White stripes and made it work VERY well. He didn't play it because he was poor, this was his TOURING instrument. Treat it well, set her up right, and a humble guitar (not talking POS from Wallmart here but even a decent Squier) is all a new guitar player needs. The rest is determination and interest.

 

 

well i guess you can spend that much, but then you just gunna hafta rely on the venue's expensive sound system anyways. i don't do no stinkin p.a. systems....

[Izzy]

well i guess you can spend that much, but then you just gunna hafta rely on the venue's expensive sound system anyways. i don't do no stinkin p.a. systems....

 

Well, if you're talking about playing in public that's a whole other thing.

[Riffster]

Well, if you're talking about playing in public that's a whole other thing.

 

That is the thing. Not just in public, playing with a drummer would apply too.

 

That's when the title of the thread applies.

[bonzoboy]

Gigging musicians especially should buy upmarket gear because if you cut corners in trying to get your sound through to the audience,you'll most likely end up having an amp blow or guitar going out of tune every couple of songs or a pedal that packs it in when you're in the middle of a searing lead break. I have always insisted on getting the very best that I could afford-and often bought what I couldn't really afford but got it anyway.Buying top level gear maybe more expensive for the initial layout but in the long run you end up being ahead because good gear is less prone to breakdown,and in the case of guitars more expensive ones generally sound and play better than the cheap Walmart specials which also have poor electronics in them.Fewer breakdowns means less money paid in upkeep for amps and guitars plus upmarket gear has a much higher resale value.

 

I have 2 Marshall amps at home now: a 1983 JCM 800,2204 stack,a 1984 JCM 800,4210 1-12 combo.I have never so much as changed the tubes on the combo and only changed the tubes of the 2204 over 10 years ago and that was only because I wanted to put in a set of matched Groovetubes.All of my other tube amps have had similar reliability because I went the extra expense and paid for quality and reliability.The same goes for my guitars and most of my pedals.

[zigzag]

I started playing when I was ten (1963) with lessons on a cheap nylon stringed classical-type guitar. I learned Woody Guthrie and Bob Dylan tunes. A year later, my parents bought me a POS Kent one-pup, Strat-like electric... no amp. I had to get an adapter to plug into the back of my parents' RCA record player or plug into a friend's amp. Learned Beatles songs. The Kent had no truss rod and in no time the neck became too warped to play.

[Greybeard]

I think there is probably a road to discovery involved as time goes by and you get more experience playing a lot of different instruments. The discovery is that you are getting better and you are gaining a "feel" for what a great instrument is vs a good instrument. A part of all that is that the great instrument has a feel that you connect with and it brings out more expression in you and how you are playing.

 

Once you discover a connection with a great instrument you will always remember that feeling and remember how long it took to get there. Buying the less expensive instruments may allow you to "get by" and you can convince yourself at times that its good enough for what I'm doing now. But you will always remember that feeling of the great ones that you play.

 

When you know about that feeling, it becomes very easy for a musician as a parent to want to bypass the lesser instruments for their kids who want to play music so that they can find that feeling quicker and get to a higher level at a faster pace.

 

I'm not playing on stages anymore and I still buy Epiphones at times, but if a great one of any brand passes through my hands, it just might come home with me.....because I still remember the feeling of a lot of great ones that I've had and I'm not done having a great time playing music.

[quapman]

I couldn't agree more on getting your kids the best you can possibly afford.

 

There is nothing more frustrating than trying to overcome a crappy instrument.

 

Learning to play is hard enough as it is. A crappy instrument shouldn't be part of that learning curve.

[vangoghsear]

My first guitar I spent any money on (I had a POS I got for free) I bought used at a yard sale for $175 with a hardshell case and that guitar is proof that you do not need to spend a lot on gear to have it be good. It was a Westbury Standard, DiMarzio PAF and Super Distortion pups, super low action fast neck with excellent fretwork, good electronics, decent tuners, solid build quality made in Japan. It was my only guitar for 20 years and it is still going strong after 30 years.

 

Now my amps are another story I had cheap amps that sounded like crap and were totally uninspiring (my first amp I bought was a Gorilla GC60R, loud SS POS) until I started to play more about 15 years ago Then I bought a Behringer AC112 which actually has real nice clean tone I got that for $144. I finally came across a used Traynor YCV40WR that I got for $350. Again, gig-able amp for little money.

 

I think that buy the best gear you can afford is good advice, but you do not always have to spend a lot to have gig-able gear.

[badbluesplayer]

I started playing when I was ten (1963) with lessons on a cheap nylon stringed classical-type guitar. I learned Woody Guthrie and Bob Dylan tunes. A year later, my parents bought me a POS Kent one-pup, Strat-like electric... no amp. I had to get an adapter to plug into the back of my parents' RCA record player or plug into a friend's amp. Learned Beatles songs. The Kent had no truss rod and in no time the neck became too warped to play.

Yessssss!! Plugging the guitar into the jacks for the phonograph!! I did that!

[jdgm]

The problem is the set-up half the time. Non-guitarists (picture your parents if they never played guitar) wouldn't know how to hunt at a pawnshop, check for a crooked neck or plugging in to an amp to check for pots making noises. This is why they often buy new. Most people buy something NEW and think it is ready to use. I can hear it now, "but we JUST got that Squier NEW from GC, why do we have to take it to a guitar repair dude?" Because it feels horrible with high action and the cheap tuners keep the new player believing, "I sound awful" when it is in fact the guitar de-tuning every five minutes for lack of better tuning thingies.

Absolutely true. Very good point. Cheap instruments have got MUCH better in the last 35 years but you've still got to find out how to operate it and (I was a guitar teacher for 12 yrs) explaining what 'action' is and the various adjustments on an electric can be incredibly confusing and off-putting for a beginner.

 

Yessssss!! Plugging the guitar into the jacks for the phonograph!! I did that!

Me too - it was a reel-to-reel in my case. Great topic. Cheap 'starter' guitars that stayed in tune were not easy to come by in the 60s and early 70s.

[vangoghsear]

Those comments on setup and non-players and beginners not understanding its importance are very true. I used to buy cheap guitars because that was all I could afford, still I bought decent quality for the money, like a Squier M70, and a Washburn WI67, both of which came setup really well out of the box; I didn't even need to tweak the truss rod. But I have also bought a Jay Turser JT133 that required $500 worth of setup, new wiring, new pickups and a fret level to become a really good player or my Affinity Squier strat that just needed a setup and a loaded Dragonfire pickguard for about $75 in parts and labor.

 

My point is, for the cost of a cheap guitar you can often make it a real winner by adding a pro setup and a few mods and still keep it under the cost of a more expensive guitar.

 

However, I have currently exceeded the resale value for the Jay Turser Although it is a great player and has a fantastic semihollow tone with DiMarzio pups and new wiring, I doubt I could get $650 for it if I had to sell it. That is true of most cheap guitars, they don't go up in resale value like a Gibson would.

 

Oh and Me too. I have played through an 8 track tape stereo. Anything sounded better than that Gorilla amp I had.

[Markini]

For what its worth here is a post from a few months ago. I thought it may have some relevance.

 

 

 

I received my first guitar as a Christmas present. The year was 1963 and I was 12 years old. I lived in El Paso, Texas and my parents purchased this guitar in Juarez, Mexico.

 

As the story goes the guitar was bought from a 'guitar street vendor' for the princely sum of $12. The guitar was made out of plywood and should have been strung with nylon strings but came with steel strings. The strings had tiny fuzz balls of different colors fed through the bridge.

 

The strings were about 3/4 of an inch off the fret board, the neck could have been used for archery practice, it had no truss rod and the tuners were like a 5 to 1 ratio. It was a pain to tune and it wouldn't stay in tune. Sometimes at night, I would be awakened by this loud screeching tone. First time thought it was a cat in distress. But it was the guitar strings slipping as temperature changed. It was kind of scary and happened a few times.

 

But I stuck with that guitar for two years, I couldn't chord it, so I played one string. (Even an adult friend of my parents who was a guitar player could not chord it properly). That sucker was a bear. On a good day I could get a scratchy E major out of it.

 

My luck changed 2 years later, I moved up to a cardboard guitar made in the Philippines called a Montanyo. Despite being layered cardboard it was at least playable.

 

My first real playing 'good' guitar was 1948 J45 Gibson giving to me by my girlfriend (Was her father's he never played it) I did give her my Aria 3/4 scale in exchange. I got that Gibson at age 21 and have not looked back since. I am on my 10th Gibson at the moment. I have come to regret every guitar I sold or gave away except my 1st one that Juarez beater.

[T Bone]

Yessssss!! Plugging the guitar into the jacks for the phonograph!! I did that!

Lol, memories! Had a combo 8 track/phonograph/stereo radio with two cheap speakers and an "auxiliary" input. Played to Steppenwolf, Joe Cocker, many many more...(early 1970s).

 

I also did have a crappy solid state "Checkmate 10", IIRC, it must have stopped working (hence the stereo input). Amp came with a guitar, a semi hollow bodied "Marlin" (logo in the shape of the fish). I remember how the plastic finish on the neck bubbled and broke eventually, and cutting myself sliding over it (then spent hours chipping/scraping every bit of finish off that neck).

 

We used to refer to the gear we wanted as "Professional Quality" (as in suitable for gigging, recording, and general rock stardom. And that I think is what this thread is about (too bad about that flat trumpet, that musta' really sucked!).

 

Parents took me (after begging/pleading) to look at and buy my first real amp, a West Avalon (Google them, a local phenom West was, world famous for 15 minutes because of Grand Funk Railroad). Had two 4/12 cabinets! (Can't recall how we got that monster home...). Parents unbeknownst to me went back and purchased one of the two guitars I demoed it on and raved about (67 Gibson Firebird III with 3 P90s). Other was a 56 Les Paul Jr. The Firebird became my Christmas present that year, best Christmas ever (1972). And that guitar is the ONE guitar of ALL of them I wish I had never let go...

 

A note to Izzy- a good Professional set up is a great thing. And if needed, certainly worth the cost/effort. But there really is no absolute magic in it. It is something that CAN be done (at least adequately) by the individual player with a modicum of patience and minimal tools. There are plenty of good internet (YouTube) videos detailing the hows and whys for specific models (Strats, Les Pauls) and Fender even has a written tutorial step by step on their website.

 

If available for free when i buy, I take them up on it. Not going to pay for it (okay, I'm cheap! with some things at least) if it's something I can learn and do in my own spare time (a nice feeling of independence and satisfaction comes along with doing it yourself).