Gio Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 I remember that a few months ago a picture was posted of a gentleman with an original 30's Advanced Jumbo. And I'm not sure but I think somebody mentioned that this guitar will be used by Gibson as a template for a Legend AJ or something similar... Am I wrong? Can somebody help me? I love my AJ so much that the idea of a Legend AJ is really fantastic. So I would like to know if I can wait for such a model or I have to start thinking about a custom one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuanCarlosVejar Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 that would be Gary Burnett's AJ . they will replicate it again ( they used it as a template in the 90's) Don & Dennis went to his house to measure it . JC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gio Posted May 16, 2013 Author Share Posted May 16, 2013 Thanks JC, that's great! I'll wait for the results... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hogeye Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 Thanks JC, that's great! I'll wait for the results... Every Advanced Jumbo Gibson is an exact replica of Gary Burnett's prototype guitar. He brought it to Bozeman and Ren Ferguson and Gibson's engineers measured and reproduced the guitar exactly.Gary himself approved the project.This was in 1990. This was 20 years before the new guys even worked for Gibson. I guess no one told them about this as they seem to have had the need to measure the guitar again. Every Gibson Advanced Jumbo is a Legend except for the goofy stuff they did with the mahogany short scale version. They label them as Advanced Jumbos but the aren't. All of Gary's guitar specs are in Gibson's computer and all are built to the original spec. I know the lady that worked for Ren when she put the specs in Gibson's computer. If you buy an Advanced Jumbo today the measurements will be exactly the same as Gary's guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gio Posted May 16, 2013 Author Share Posted May 16, 2013 Thanks Hogeye, that's really interesting. I'm very interested in the idea of a guitar built with better woods and using only hide glue. My 75th Anniversary AJ is slightly less traditional looking (ebony fretboard and bridge, drop in saddle, light colored northern indian rosewood back and sides...) and I surely would like one that resembles the original as much as possible, as an addition and not as a substitute of my current AJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave F Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 I've been very impressed with the AJ I recently bought. I have no guitar or have played any that vibrates as much as this one. My D41-Special is the only other one I have that vibrates, but nothng like this one. I realize they are both advanced x-bracing. I've only picked up one other AJ but it did not compare. Friends have played it and agreed. You feel the entire body vibrating as you play and it's very loud. Is this common with AJ's or does the walnut body contribute more to this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitarstrummer Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 I have a rosewood AJ and also a Birdseye Maple custom AJ. Love them both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sumner77 Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 Loved the Legends J-45 and L-00 I have owned. A Legends AJ project is a great idea. A Dale Fairbanks braz AJ will come to live with me next year :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParlourMan Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 Every Advanced Jumbo Gibson is an exact replica of Gary Burnett's prototype guitar. He brought it to Bozeman and Ren Ferguson and Gibson's engineers measured and reproduced the guitar exactly.Gary himself approved the project.This was in 1990. This was 20 years before the new guys even worked for Gibson. I guess no one told them about this as they seem to have had the need to measure the guitar again. Every Gibson Advanced Jumbo is a Legend except for the goofy stuff they did with the mahogany short scale version. They label them as Advanced Jumbos but the aren't. All of Gary's guitar specs are in Gibson's computer and all are built to the original spec. I know the lady that worked for Ren when she put the specs in Gibson's computer. If you buy an Advanced Jumbo today the measurements will be exactly the same as Gary's guitar. By 'every' you mean that includes the Std AJ model? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guitarstrummer Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 By 'every' you mean that includes the Std AJ model? I think that's what he's saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GT Hurley Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 I was hoping to see it in May. I have a deposit on one and I am waiting patiently for it to arrive. Now the date has been moved to June, and then I hear it is still in the development stages. Does anyone really know? The tension builds... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hogeye Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 By 'every' you mean that includes the Std AJ model? Sorry for the confusion. The Gibson marketing dept has done everything imaginable to the A.J. It's kind of sad in a way. They have used every wood combination possible and have even made short scaled versions. The regular, everyday long scale Indian Rosewood A.J. is the exact copy of Gary Burnette's 1935 AJ prototype. I have seen and played this guitar both in Bozeman and in Ashville N.C. where Gary lives. Gary's AJ was brought to Bozeman and Ren Ferguson, Gibson's master luthier, studied Gary's guitar in complete detail. He took exact measurements of the entire guitar.This was done in 1990. This is when I first had the opportunity to play Gary's guitar. If you were to go out and buy a very plain simple Indian Rosewood AJ made by Gibson it would be built to the exact specifications of Gary Burnette's original 1935 Gibson prototype AJ. Every dimension would be exactly the same. If you bought something with different wood combinations the dimensions would still be the same. If you bought something with a short scale called an AJ then they misled you. It is not an AJ. It would be more like a J-45. Especially if it was made out of Mahogany. Gibson made several versions of non-spec AJ's for Sweetwater and other Internet dealers. They are what they are. Gibson made several "new" AJ's out of Brazilian Rosewood and I have one of them. It is an amazing guitar. My other AJ's are out of Indian Rosewood.My AJ's all have Brazilian Bridges and fretboards just like Gary's. That will tell you they were made before May of 2003 They are exact copies of Gary's original 1935 prototype. Gary was the first person to coin the phrase "Bone Crusher". He called the Advanced Jumbo "The Bone Crusher" as his AJ was far better than all of his herringbone D-28 Martins. Gary has a bunch of Martin Bones as well. The Martin's were called "Bones" because of the Herringbone binding used on the guitar. Gibson's marketing dept later used the term to describe the J-60. Gibson's marketing director actually thought he coined the term. That is how out of touch the marketing dept was and is. Eldon Whitford is a very close friend of Gary Burnette's and he wrote about the guitar and it's history in the "Gibson Fabulous Flat-top Guitar" book on pages 47-48-and 49. Gibson can never make a AJ legend. They can't use the Brazilian Rosewood fretboard and bridge that was used on Gary's prototype. They might actually try as they have done silly things liks this in the past. If you want a true AJ Legend just buy a Gibson AJ from before 2003. That one will have the correct Brazilian fretboard and bridge and you will have an exact copy of Gary's guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuanCarlosVejar Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 Sorry for the confusion. The Gibson marketing dept has done everything imaginable to the A.J. It's kind of sad in a way. They have used every wood combination possible and have even made short scaled versions. The regular, everyday long scale Indian Rosewood A.J. is the exact copy of Gary Burnette's 1935 AJ prototype. I have seen and played this guitar both in Bozeman and in Ashville N.C. where Gary lives. Gary's AJ was brought to Bozeman and Ren Ferguson, Gibson's master luthier, studied Gary's guitar in complete detail. He took exact measurements of the entire guitar.This was done in 1990. This is when I first had the opportunity to play Gary's guitar. If you were to go out and buy a very plain simple Indian Rosewood AJ made by Gibson it would be built to the exact specifications of Gary Burnette's original 1935 Gibson prototype AJ. Every dimension would be exactly the same. If you bought something with different wood combinations the dimensions would still be the same. If you bought something with a short scale called an AJ then they misled you. It is not an AJ. It would be more like a J-45. Especially if it was made out of Mahogany. Gibson made several versions of non-spec AJ's for Sweetwater and other Internet dealers. They are what they are. Gibson made several "new" AJ's out of Brazilian Rosewood and I have one of them. It is an amazing guitar. My other AJ's are out of Indian Rosewood.My AJ's all have Brazilian Bridges and fretboards just like Gary's. That will tell you they were made before May of 2003 They are exact copies of Gary's original 1935 prototype. Gary was the first person to coin the phrase "Bone Crusher". He called the Advanced Jumbo "The Bone Crusher" as his AJ was far better than all of his herringbone D-28 Martins. Gary has a bunch of Martin Bones as well. The Martin's were called "Bones" because of the Herringbone binding used on the guitar. Gibson's marketing dept later used the term to describe the J-60. Gibson's marketing director actually thought he coined the term. That is how out of touch the marketing dept was and is. Eldon Whitford is a very close friend of Gary Burnette's and he wrote about the guitar and it's history in the "Gibson Fabulous Flat-top Guitar" book on pages 47-48-and 49. Gibson can never make a AJ legend. They can't use the Brazilian Rosewood fretboard and bridge that was used on Gary's prototype. They might actually try as they have done silly things liks this in the past. If you want a true AJ Legend just buy a Gibson AJ from before 2003. That one will have the correct Brazilian fretboard and bridge and you will have an exact copy of Gary's guitar. HE , can we see some pics of your AJ's ? thanks for the info JC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
merseybeat1963 Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 Sorry for the confusion. The Gibson marketing dept has done everything imaginable to the A.J. It's kind of sad in a way. They have used every wood combination possible and have even made short scaled versions. The regular, everyday long scale Indian Rosewood A.J. is the exact copy of Gary Burnette's 1935 AJ prototype. I have seen and played this guitar both in Bozeman and in Ashville N.C. where Gary lives. Gary's AJ was brought to Bozeman and Ren Ferguson, Gibson's master luthier, studied Gary's guitar in complete detail. He took exact measurements of the entire guitar.This was done in 1990. This is when I first had the opportunity to play Gary's guitar. If you were to go out and buy a very plain simple Indian Rosewood AJ made by Gibson it would be built to the exact specifications of Gary Burnette's original 1935 Gibson prototype AJ. Every dimension would be exactly the same. If you bought something with different wood combinations the dimensions would still be the same. If you bought something with a short scale called an AJ then they misled you. It is not an AJ. It would be more like a J-45. Especially if it was made out of Mahogany. Gibson made several versions of non-spec AJ's for Sweetwater and other Internet dealers. They are what they are. Gibson made several "new" AJ's out of Brazilian Rosewood and I have one of them. It is an amazing guitar. My other AJ's are out of Indian Rosewood.My AJ's all have Brazilian Bridges and fretboards just like Gary's. That will tell you they were made before May of 2003 They are exact copies of Gary's original 1935 prototype. Gary was the first person to coin the phrase "Bone Crusher". He called the Advanced Jumbo "The Bone Crusher" as his AJ was far better than all of his herringbone D-28 Martins. Gary has a bunch of Martin Bones as well. The Martin's were called "Bones" because of the Herringbone binding used on the guitar. Gibson's marketing dept later used the term to describe the J-60. Gibson's marketing director actually thought he coined the term. That is how out of touch the marketing dept was and is. Eldon Whitford is a very close friend of Gary Burnette's and he wrote about the guitar and it's history in the "Gibson Fabulous Flat-top Guitar" book on pages 47-48-and 49. Gibson can never make a AJ legend. They can't use the Brazilian Rosewood fretboard and bridge that was used on Gary's prototype. They might actually try as they have done silly things liks this in the past. If you want a true AJ Legend just buy a Gibson AJ from before 2003. That one will have the correct Brazilian fretboard and bridge and you will have an exact copy of Gary's guitar. Except for the glue right..? Does it make any difference the type of glue Hogeye? Lastly, its really a shame if your posts disappear into internet space man. They should be bundled into a book. You really take the reader to the time and place. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hogeye Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 Except for the glue right..? Does it make any difference the type of glue Hogeye? Lastly, its really a shame if your posts disappear into internet space man. They should be bundled into a book. You really take the reader to the time and place. Thanks Thank you for the kind words. I will tell you this. The type of glue is important. I have never looked inside a "banner" guitar and found it clean. They are full of glue drips and runs and the braces look like they were chewed out by a hungry beaver. All the tool marks are a very good clue to what was going on. I have been lucky enough to spend a lot of time with Eldon Whitford and Ren Ferguson and over dinner in Belgrade I was lucky enough to witness a very good debate. Eldon is an amazing luthier and a wonderful repairman. He has seen many Banners in various states of disrepair and has brought back more than a few from the dead. The big debate for that particular evening was Gary's AJ proto and how Ren should proceed. Keep in mind that the modern Gibson has a 28 foot radius top. Eldon has seen and maintains that the old banners were radiused in a different manner that Ren's design. The old Gibson's had the ribs block planed at a bevel around the sides of the guitar. There are plenty of photos that show the plane marks on the top of the ribs. Ren's design uses a parabolic sander and it sands the complete top of the guitars top ribs. I have a 1943 banner 45 that Eldon repaired and in the process he had the top and back off and did a detailed study of the tool marks and the way the top was radiused as well as the structure of the braces. He has studied many others as well. Ren was amazed at the body of documentation and work Eldon had done and found it very usefull in his development of the modern Gibson build. The difference being, the old Gibsons had the top forced down onto the ribs which were beveled and the ends of the guitar were not so there was a lot of strain and tension on the top at these points. There is no evidence that the braces were beveled. Think of a Quanset hut with the arch and the ends open. Ren's design uses the parabolic sander that Ren designed. The top braces are also sanded to the 28 foot arch. So when the top is built it has the 28 foot radius built in and it sits on the ribs that are sanded to the same radius all around the perimiter of the guitar so there is no tension. The pre-arched top fits down on the radiused ribs with no tension to the build at all. Ren feels this will add to the longevity of the guitar and still give the advantage of a radiused top. Soooo... The point is that there is no way Gibson is going to do all the stuff that they know about to recreate any Banner exactly. They come as close as possible with the factory sort of build they have to use. Eldon agreed with Ren that his build would be fine. Much better than the old way of building. As you can see there are a ton of things involved in recreating a guitar built in the 30's and 40's. I was amazed at the knowledge that these two men have and all the complications that go into building an exact replica. Especially in a modern factory. That is the scope of Ren's genius. He did what no other could have done.Pity they did nothing to keep him around. Back to your question. ha.... Long way around huh? The hide glue is one of many problems that a new guitar factory faces. It is more difficult to use than the modern glues and no, my "new" AJs don't use hide glue on the top and back. They do have the braces and the neck set glued with hide glue. The reissue Legend 45 and L-00 are all hide glued. Would a new AJ be hide glued? Probably.. Remember my AJ's were not Legend guitars just factory builds. Most folks that have been to the "Homecoming" have seen and played my guitars. My '43/45 is a dandy. You can see it on page 58 of Eldon's book. It's at the top of the page. Yes it's the one with the skunk stripe. This will probably raise more questions than it answers. Sorry for my poor communication skills. "Only a Gibson is good enough" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin 1940D28 Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 byby Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GotTheSilver Posted May 18, 2013 Share Posted May 18, 2013 Every Gibson Advanced Jumbo is a Legend except for the goofy stuff they did with the mahogany short scale version. . Remember my AJ's were not Legend guitars just factory builds. You contradict yourself. Your point is taken and I very much appreciate your insights and contributions, but to my mind, just having the right dimensions does not make it a Legend. The hide glue is a large component, as are some other factors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rar Posted May 20, 2013 Share Posted May 20, 2013 ... just having the right dimensions does not make it a Legend. The hide glue is a large component, as are some other factors. Well, having a Brazilian bridge is a "large component" according to Gary and Ren -- they both thought that the Indian bridge on the early ones was a problem that needed fixing -- and you're not going to get that on a new "Legend AJ". In fact, it's not at all clear exactly what a "Legend AJ" would be, which accounts for the "contradiction". For example, my Legend J-45 has a top that was hand-built by Ren in the Art Shop. Whatever "Legend AJ" means, it's going to be a regular production-line guitar: there is no Master Luthier and no Art Shop and no hand-building of tops going on AFAIK. How exactly would a "Legend AJ" differ from a regular production AJ? We don't know. Maybe no one knows. All we know for sure is that it would be based on measurements of Gary's prototype, which, as Hogeye pointed out, isn't a difference. -- Bob R Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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