Natural top J-45

[retrorod]

Just a question about the style designation of this '93 J-45 on Fleabay....

http://www.ebay.com/...6#ht_244wt_1159

 

What does the Style AT on the label stand for? I would guess that it has something to do with the natural top...

[Jalex]

antique as in antique natural finish is my guess.

[retrorod]

"Adirondack Top" would be 'my guess'.....but I am not hip to all of Bozeman's little 'model twists'....

[Jalex]

"Adirondack Top" would be 'my guess'.....but I am not hip to all of Bozeman's little 'model twists'....

 

Looks like a Sitka top to me grain isn't right for an adi top.

[cybercat]

The part that I really don't get is :

"Bozeman era Gibsons are well known for playing and sounding much better than more recent Gibson's" :unsure:

[Yggdrasil]

The part that I really don't get is :

"Bozeman era Gibsons are well known for playing and sounding much better than more recent Gibson's" :unsure:

 

I actually emailed him about that awhile ago - his response:

 

"technically correct, but merely referring to the early years of The Bozeman plant ,its fairly well known that the acoustic guitars of that time period are superior to the past or more recent years"

[j45nick]

I actually emailed him about that awhile ago - his response:

 

"technically correct, but merely referring to the early years of The Bozeman plant ,its fairly well known that the acoustic guitars of that time period are superior to the past or more recent years"

 

 

And so another seller attempts to perpetuate myths to try to differentiate his guitar from others. I don't know where people come up with this stuff. Even if you repeat it enough times, it does not necessarily become fact.

[mountainpicker]

The two things central to good propaganda, according to Joseph Goebbels, are: Constant repetition of any falsehood will begin to be believed as the truth. And, the more outlandish the claim, the more likely it is to be believed (as in, "How could something so out there not be true?"). I suspect it wouldn't take too long to convince a large number of people that Norlin era guitars are superior in every way. In general I found 1993 to be a pretty good year for me!

Fifty years from now I wonder what the consensus will be on the "good years" for Bozeman guitars?

[Paulnumbfingers]

I am far from being a gibson expert, but from reading the opinions of folks here and elsewhere on the Internet, I look for gibson guitars built before 1961 and after Ren took over. Given it may have taken Ren time to get the shop running to his quality, I look for guitars made after 1990. There are obviously many Gibson guitars made between 1961 and 1990 that sounds great, but based on the experts here it appeared to me that the odds of getting a dud guitar would be much higher in those years. So unless the guitar was local and I could actually play it, I would be weary to buy off the Internet. Guitar center will at least let you try he used guitar and return it if you don't like it, so I would be willing to risk a guitar with them, knowing I was only risking the shipping charges. IMO.

[j45nick]

I am far from being a gibson expert, but from reading the opinions of folks here and elsewhere on the Internet, I look for gibson guitars built before 1961 and after Ren took over. Given it may have taken Ren time to get the shop running to his quality, I look for guitars made after 1990. There are obviously many Gibson guitars made between 1961 and 1990 that sounds great, but based on the experts here it appeared to me that the odds of getting a dud guitar would be much higher in those years. So unless the guitar was local and I could actually play it, I would be weary to buy off the Internet. Guitar center will at least let you try he used guitar and return it if you don't like it, so I would be willing to risk a guitar with them, knowing I was only risking the shipping charges. IMO.

 

I wouldn't disagree with you in principle, but there are undoubtedly good guitars from the period you are avoiding, particularly 1962-'64 (or even a bit later, if you can deal with the narrow nut often found in 1965 and later guitars). Like you say, you need to play to know, but that really goes for any guitar, whether vintage or modern.

 

It's probably reasonable to say that few of the double-X braced Norlin-era guitars are going to be stellar, but there are probably even exceptions in that period.

[j45nick]

antique as in antique natural finish is my guess.

 

That would be my guess as well, as the "antique natural" is a fairly common Gibson designation, even when it makes no sense, such as a J-45 with an antique natural top. The Gibson website periodically (and paradoxically) lists "antique natural" as a top finish for the J-45.

[Motherofpearl]

Agree with nick. In 1960 the hummingbird came out. I've been lucky enough to have a friend who has 2 a 63 and a 65. The 65 the nut width is like holding a pencil. But the 63 has a nice full shape neck. But as far as slopes go I'd prefer prior to 55. I've had a couple early 90s era guitars and they were great. But I've also had a couple later ones that were great too.

[Hogeye]

That would be my guess as well, as the "antique natural" is a fairly common Gibson designation, even when it makes no sense, such as a J-45 with an antique natural top. The Gibson website periodically (and paradoxically) lists "antique natural" as a top finish for the J-45.

 

The designation for AT is is antique natural top and walnut stained back and sides. Doesn't make a lot of sense but that is what it is.I always thought it was a mistake to stain beautiful mahogany with a dark walnut stain but.....

[ponty]

This is identical to mine. Mine was made November 2nd and this ebay one 22nd March.

 

"Bozeman era Gibsons are well known for playing and sounding much better than more recent Gibson's" Of course this is true!

[retrorod]

How do you like yours, Ponty? Can you describe the tone/playability?

[retrorod]

The designation for AT is is antique natural top and walnut stained back and sides. Doesn't make a lot of sense but that is what it is.I always thought it was a mistake to stain beautiful mahogany with a dark walnut stain but.....

 

Thanks, Hogeye et al....I never would have guessed 'AT' for antique natural top....but there you go. I asked the seller and he replied that he never really noticed it....There you have it! Analytical brain Vs Brain-dead. Now ya'll please explain to my 'analytical brain' WHY a 'natural top' J45 would NOT be designated as a J-50...... ????

Is the world today 'really' so "topsy-turvy".....I mean....REALLY???

And BTW....I really like the look of walnut-stained mahogany on a Gibson. It gives a great contrast to the binding...Lovely!

[Yggdrasil]

And so another seller attempts to perpetuate myths to try to differentiate his guitar from others. I don't know where people come up with this stuff. Even if you repeat it enough times, it does not necessarily become fact.

 

 

there was more to his reply, enough for me to note him as "never buy from " , but you never know - maybe he had just one too many beers before answering my question.

 

lt's ridiculous to choose your own definition of the "Bozeman era".

[ponty]

Retrorod,

I bought this new in 1993. Prior to that I had had dozens of Martins, Norlin Gibsons, and Guilds.

They came and went, as I searched for the guitar that really spoke to me.

I ordered mine 45 blindly to Bermuda, after trying one in a shop in Southampton UK.

The moment I got it, was the moment I decided it was a keeper!

So much so, I (again) called Mandolin Bros out of the blue and asked if they had got a sunburst in stock.

They said they had a 93 Sunburst used, in near mint condition for $850 dollars. I offered $800, and I have that one too!

Although they were made months apart, they are quite different in sound and feel. My Sunburst is slightly bigger, the neck is

like a baseball bat. The AT neck is slim and low profile. Although both are well suited to finger picking and strumming,

The AT has notably less bass, and has more treble, and probably better balance. The SB deep and bass like.

As such, 12g strings for the NT and 11s for the SB. I have tried 12s and 13s, which sounds fantastic strummed or flat picked,

but too deep for finger style. They are now very much apart of me. Have I played a J45 which was better? Sure I have.

A Standard J45 in Sam Ash NYC last December, but I would never trade these for it.

[retrorod]

Thanks ponty, for a great description! It is so odd to me that two guitars of similiar lineage could sound so different. Glad to hear that you have kept and like them both!

Bermuda, eh! I was fortunate enought to have spent 3 years of my early-teen life there in '65. My family lived in Somerset.

My current wife and I with my Dad and stepmother took a cruise there in 2011.....Great memories

[zombywoof]

Agree with nick. In 1960 the hummingbird came out. I've been lucky enough to have a friend who has 2 a 63 and a 65. The 65 the nut width is like holding a pencil. But the 63 has a nice full shape neck. But as far as slopes go I'd prefer prior to 55. I've had a couple early 90s era guitars and they were great. But I've also had a couple later ones that were great too.

 

 

Agree on the 1963 - the best necks you will find in the 1960s are those on guitars made in 1963 and 1964. Not as full as thos eon 1950s guitars but a whole lot nicer than thoze Gibson was slapping on their guitars at the beginning of the decade and the later ones which while not quite as skiny have that ridiculously narrow nut.

 

I generally prefer my round shoulder Gibsons made before before 1957. I really do not have enough time under my belt with Bozeman-made guitars to have an opinion..

[Yorick]

Thanks, Hogeye et al.... Now ya'll please explain to my 'analytical brain' WHY a 'natural top' J45 would NOT be designated as a J-50...... ????

Is the world today 'really' so "topsy-turvy".....I mean....REALLY???

And BTW....I really like the look of walnut-stained mahogany on a Gibson. It gives a great contrast to the binding...Lovely!

 

Well, it's a J 50. Gibson just forgets sometimes that a J 45 with a natural top is a J 50.

 

It has always been thus--the folks in the front office just don't listen to the historians. I used to figure that they enjoyed confusing folks like us. Now, I reckon it's just accidental--"Hey, let's stick this banner on the J 35."